What do we mean by 'the church'

ResidentAlien · Jul 26, 2021

The church is the body of Christ, wherever they are and whenever they are. Just because there's a local group that calls itself a "church" doesn't automatically make it part of the body of Christ. Some of its members may be, others may be tares or false believers. By their fruit you will know them.

Out of curiosity, how to you feel the church has wandered from the truth in this regard? Is it the idea of a church universal based on a false unity?

Evmur · Jul 26, 2021

Gideon300 said:

The church is not an institution. It is the body of Christ. Ephesians 1:22

"And God put everything under His feet and made Him head over everything for the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all." That is the universal church. I Corinthians Chapter 12 explains in more detail.

Every born again Christian is a member of the church. I long ago quit applying for membership. It makes as much sense as asking to join your own family! Every Christian has a role to fulfill. No one is inferior and no one is of no value. Some are more mature in the Lord, and that is what determines placement within the body.

There is the church generally. Then there is the local church. Contrary to the practice of man, God sees just one church in a locality. There is no Lutheran, Methodist, Pentecostal or Baptist or any other label you care to mention.

Practically, churches should be no more than 30 people. They should be self governing. They may meet with other fellowships from time to time for conferences or in depth teaching.

Too many churches have an "Open Door" policy. This is not Biblical. I believe that the Brethren have it right, although there are other teachings that I don't agree with. The Brethren have a gospel meeting to begin the Sunday worship. Then they break for fellowship. Where I attended that included lunch. Those who were not born again were advised that the next stage of the meeting was for believers only. It was handled well, not in an aggressive or insulting way.

nicely put.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 26, 2021

wattie said:

That is MUTIPLE bodies. No such concept in the Bible. Someone has been feeding you some nonsensical ideas. Study the Church (singular).

wattie · Jul 27, 2021

ResidentAlien said:

Yes, seeking unity in every believer is a logistical nightmare, but unity in the local body is very possible and is mainly what the New Testament is about with Jesus' admonishments through the likes of Paul.

p_rehbein · Jul 27, 2021

The "church" is the body of believers who have become disciples of Jesus.

wattie · Jul 27, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

Weeelll.. the body of Christ IS the church

That's one way of defining it.. with church-- meaning 'assembly, congregation, gathering'

How is both local and universal with one definition?

And then when you look at when the word church is used.. almost every time it's of one particular congregation. The times it isn't.. like in Galatia-- it's multiple churches.. or like in Matthew 16.. it's singular but representing many churches to be developed.

But in saying this-- I call the Family of God having every believer.. and the Kingdom. And all believers WILL one day be gathered as one church.. so it's just a matter what we are calling every believer now.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 27, 2021

wattie said:

Here is what exists as the Church -- one Body and many members.

ResidentAlien · Jul 27, 2021

wattie said:

That makes sense.

Webers.Home · Jul 27, 2021

.
The "my church" of Matt 16:18 is said to be Christ's body (Eph 1:20-23)
which-- in some strange manner that I do not yet fully understand --is
apparently literal, i.e. an actual arrangement.

• Eph 5:28-33 . . Husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He
who loves his wife loves himself.

. . . After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it,
just as Christ does the church-- for we are members of his body.

. . . For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to
his wife, and the two will become one flesh This is a profound mystery-- but
I am talking about Christ and the church.

• 1Cor 6:15-17 . . Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ
himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a
prostitute? Never!

. . . Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with
her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." But he who
unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
_

wattie · Jul 27, 2021

Webers.Home said:

.
The "my church" of Matt 16:18 is said to be Christ's body (Eph 1:20-23)
which-- in some strange manner that I do not yet fully understand --is
apparently literal, i.e. an actual arrangement.

• Eph 5:28-33 . . Husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He
who loves his wife loves himself.

. . . After all, no one ever hated his own body, but he feeds and cares for it,
just as Christ does the church-- for we are members of his body.

. . . For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to
his wife, and the two will become one flesh This is a profound mystery-- but
I am talking about Christ and the church.

• 1Cor 6:15-17 . . Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ
himself? Shall I then take the members of Christ and unite them with a
prostitute? Never!

. . . Do you not know that he who unites himself with a prostitute is one with
her in body? For it is said, "The two will become one flesh." But he who
unites himself with the Lord is one with him in spirit.
_

This is what I'm getting at.. its like saying 'a body of water' .. Christ is singular but His body.. as in 'group ' 'assembly' can be local and visible because that is the language of how it is described

Webers.Home · Jul 27, 2021

.

wattie said:

Your idea was addressed early-on back in post No.9
_

GRACE_ambassador · Jul 28, 2021

Webers.Home said:

Precious friend, correct, Many do not yet fully understand church "ekklesia" =
simply means assembly; notice THREE Different * Bible assemblies:

(1) Christ Said "My assembly" (Mat_16:18) = LAW/gospel of the KINGDOM
(earthly political organization = Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:10 KJB!); Jewish
assembly, continued At Pentecost!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

(2) A rioting And Confused assembly {church "ekklesia"}:
Act 19:32 Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the
assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they
were come together.

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

(3) In God's Revelation Of The MYSTERY/GRACE, HE Shows us There is
Now, a " ONE NEW man assembly ":

Eph 2:15 Having abolished in His Flesh the enmity, even the law of
commandments contained in ordinances; for To Make In Himself of
twain ONE NEW man, so making peace;

This ONE NEW man IS HIS Body, The Church assembly, Which is
a Living Organism, seated In Heavenly Places, IN CHRIST!
(1 Corinthians 12:12, 27; 2 Corinthians 5:17; Ephesians 4:12-16;
Ephesians 1:3, 2:5-6; Colossians 3:1-3 KJB!) Amen?
-------------------------------------------
* More differences/Distinctions of assemblies (1) and (3) here:
God's Approval/TWO Different Gospels
Distinctions In God's Two Different Programs: Prophecy vs Mystery!

Praying this, Precious friend helps toward fuller understanding, for you:
Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!

fredoheaven · Jul 28, 2021

Perhaps a difference is made between "a church" to simply mean the building but "the church" is a body of baptized believers in a certain locality within the building. They are visible but not invisible. It's local not universal.

fredoheaven · Jul 28, 2021

GRACE_ambassador said:

Precious friend, correct, Many do not yet fully understand church "ekklesia" =
simply means assembly; notice THREE Different * Bible assemblies:

(1) Christ Said "My assembly" (Mat_16:18) = LAW/gospel of the KINGDOM
(earthly political organization = Daniel 2:44; Matthew 6:10 KJB!); Jewish
assembly, continued At Pentecost!

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

(2) A rioting And Confused assembly {church "ekklesia"}:
Act 19:32 Some therefore cried one thing, and some another: for the
assembly was confused; and the more part knew not wherefore they
were come together.

Rightly Divided (2 Timothy 2:15 KJB!) From “Things That DIFFER!”:

Seems there are “Things That DIFFER!” on what you stated, the KJB say "my church" not "my assembly". How about that?

Runningman · Jul 28, 2021

I would add to the OP that living and deceased saints are all a part of the church.

Nehemiah6 · Jul 28, 2021

fredoheaven said:

How about "both local and universal"? Which would be the biblical teaching on the Church. How can there be only ONE BODY when there are hundreds and thousands of local churches? Easy. Every redeemed person in every local church is within that one spiritual Body of Christ.

1 COR 12: THE BODY OF CHRIST IS ONE BODY
12 For as the [human] body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one [spiritual] Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the Body is not one member, but many.

Here's another reason why a local church cannot strictly be deemed the Body of Christ -- all church members are not necessarily children of God, or born again believers. Some are only "professors" . On the other hand every genuine child of God is within the spiritual Body. And that is why Paul says that we "have been all made to drink into one Spirit".

wattie · Jul 28, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

Well for starters-- to be a church member- you'd be voted in and you'd be saved and baptised before joining. So in a church (not the building, but the saved, baptised believers that assemble there) they would be children of God. There may be false professors, true.. but then they just would not actually be part of that local church.

pottersclay · Jul 28, 2021

The church is God's word with work boots on. Sent out to continue the ministry of the good shepard untill he returns.

fredoheaven · Jul 29, 2021

Nehemiah6 said:

How about "both local and universal"? Which would be the biblical teaching on the Church. How can there be only ONE BODY when there are hundreds and thousands of local churches? Easy. Every redeemed person in every local church is within that one spiritual Body of Christ.

1 COR 12: THE BODY OF CHRIST IS ONE BODY
12 For as the [human] body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. 13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one [spiritual] Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. 14 For the Body is not one member, but many.

Here's another reason why a local church cannot strictly be deemed the Body of Christ -- all church members are not necessarily children of God, or born again believers. Some are only "professors" . On the other hand every genuine child of God is within the spiritual Body. And that is why Paul says that we "have been all made to drink into one Spirit".

Paul of course is writing to the local body of believers at Corinth. ! Cor. 1:2 though applicable to other churches as well. The body of Christ is made up of saved, baptized believers and referred to as "saints".

GRACE_ambassador · Jul 29, 2021

fredoheaven said:

The Body Of CHRIST Is Made Up Of "members, refered to as saints" who:

(1) Believed The Gospel Of The GRACE Of God, And, Were, By God's OPERATION:

(2) BAPTIZED, "BY" The Holy Spirit, Into The {Spiritual Organism} The Body
Of CHRIST, Seated In Heavenly Places!

(3) "...There Is One LORD, one faith, ↓ONE Baptism↓..." { God's OPERATION! }
............................................(Ephesians 4:5; 1 Corinthians 12:13 KJB!)

{And, it is NOT water [man's operation]!} Amen?

Please Be Richly Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, and Edified!
God's Simple Will!

What do we mean by 'the church'

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