What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?

[posthuman]

6¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: ( mature ) yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
This is the context.

hello context my old friend ... ♪♫

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom,
declaring unto you the testimony of God.
(1 Corinthians 2:1)​

​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How about these?

1 Corinthians 1:18-19
18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

Nope

God can help those who are perishing to understand, and through that chose. He helped me when I was perishing, And by drawing me to him and the HS convicting me of sin righteousness and judgment, brought me to the point I could chose to recieve him as the tax collector. Or to reject him like the pagan or pharisee

it in no way PROVES regeneration precedes justification, only by your interpretation, which is what the op was asking for,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

what about,

What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded. Just as it is written:​

“God has given them a spirit of stupor,​

eyes that they should not see​

and ears that they should not hear,​

to this very day.”​

And David says:​

“Let their table become a snare and a trap,​

a stumbling block and a recompense to them.​

Let their eyes be darkened, so that they do not see,​

and bow down their back always.”​

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!​

(Romans 11:7-12)​

​

​

​

i know the invitation to enter the supposed trap in the OP said '3 verses' but verses are arbitrary, not inspired. you may as well call these all one verse.

It’s called hardening (strengthening) ones heart,

you strengthen ones heart by putting truth in front of them, the more they reject, the more they are hardened.

he did the same to pharaoh.

he did not prevent them from seeing the truth, he strengthened their unbelief by putting truth in their face.

for that reason, they will have no excuse

 

[eternally-gratefull]

let me restate it for you @Nehemiah6 maybe it will help



the preaching of the gospel is not made meaningless by the fact that it is not understood unless God opens the ear to perceive it and the heart to believe it.

why did Christ preach in parables, in the hearing of those He knew did not believe ((John 6:36)), would not believe ((John 6:64)) & could not believe ((John 10:26))?
was it meaningless for the gospel to be proclaimed in their hearing? of course not. He's God and His word does not go out in vanity.

so i said, it is not true that any arbitrary man can be coerced by another man into receiving and believing the gospel, by clever speech and argument. perfect preaching does not automatically convert anyone or cause anyone to understand who Christ is and what He has done. conversion is supernatural, not formulaic, and by God's will, not human effort - it involves God revealing Himself; He is not found except by those He chooses to reveal Himself to ((Luke 10:22)). i hope you don't disagree??

He did it so that he could hold it against them on judgment day,

he did not prevent them from believing by closing their ears.

you should have a major problem even thinking that God is that way

 

[49]

yes, you can mark the "I ask a question but I really already have an opinion I plan to argue against all your answers" square off on your BDF bingo card, if that's what you're asking?

I like that!

 

[posthuman]

He did it so that he could hold it against them on judgment day

this, yes

he did not prevent them from believing by closing their ears.

we need to take care, because Matthew 13:15 . . is true.

you should have a major problem even thinking that God is that way

me not fully comprehending God's ways, i don't have a problem with.
i do have a problem with contradicting this:

He that is of God heareth God's words:
ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
(John 8:47)

​

 

[eternally-gratefull]

this, yes



we need to take care, because Matthew 13:15 . . is true.

yep

it still does no mean God was a respector of persons and refused to allow them any possibility to believe

it says that’s why he spoke in parables. He did it so only people of true faith can see and hear. Just like John 6,

me not fully comprehending God's ways, i don't have a problem with.
i do have a problem with contradicting this:

​

He that is of God heareth God's words: ​

ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God. ​

(John 8:47)​

​

​

you should have a problem with God calling me self a fully merciful loving god, yet telling us to love even those who hate us and yet refusing to do that himself

 

[throughfaith]

hello context my old friend ... ♪♫

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, ​

declaring unto you the testimony of God. ​

(1 Corinthians 2:1)​

​

1¶And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect( MATURE ) : yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
7But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9¶But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
11For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
13¶Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

hello context my old friend ... ♪♫

And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, ​

declaring unto you the testimony of God. ​

(1 Corinthians 2:1)​

​

So the wisdom Paul speaks among the mature is the death burial and resurrection? isn't this the milk ?

 

[posthuman]

you should have a problem with God calling me self a fully merciful loving god, yet telling us to love even those who hate us and yet refusing to do that himself

the blinding of Israel is fact, and it's not because God hates them.

1¶And I, brethren, when I came to you, came not with excellency of speech or of wisdom, declaring unto you the testimony of God.
2For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
3And I was with you in weakness, and in fear, and in much trembling.
4And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:
5That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
6¶Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect

thanks; i got occupied before i could edit my post earlier to give the rest of this passage.

he didn't preach with persuasive arguments and wisdom; He preached with the power of God.
however to those who do believe and grow in the testimony, he preached wisdom and persuaded with careful arguments from scripture. those who drank milk, were fed meat. the lactose intolerant, not so much.
because the natural man cannot receive these things - but when by the power of God the testimony is heard by those who are of God, they are supernaturally perfected, and can comprehend the mystery that is revealed in the person and work of Christ. the gospel is: the person and work of Christ.
he did not speak with persuasive argument and wisdom when he declared the testimony of God, in order that our faith would be in the power of God, not in the ability of the preacher to cause us to understand. it is not by careful explanation that one hears and understands; else our faith would be in the persuasion of the preacher. it is by the power of God that one hears and understands - and so it is He has chosen, 'the foolishness of preaching' -- and so it is He spoke in parables declaring the gospel, so that those "who have" will be given more, and those "who do not have" but who hear exactly the same thing being said, even what they have is "taken away"

this is not a description of salvation resting on the persuasion of preaching.
this is a description of preaching being the chosen instrument through which the power of God works.
it is a supernatural process -- not a natural one. the power of God, not the strength, ability or will of men.

 

[soggykitten]

We all agree that man is inherently sinful and that he cannot redeem himself by any work.
We can all quote verses about the sinfulness of man.

I'm interested in the BEST verses you have that SAY [NOT JUST "IMPLY"] that a lost man cannot believe the gospel.

If you had to choose, say, the 3 clearest and most relevant verses to answer the question, what would they be?

Please, please, give the BEST and only 3.

Thanks.
( borrowed this post with permission)

I think the hosts of Heaven cringe every time someone accepts the tenets of predetermined salvation. Aka, that dark Hell spawn flower known as tulip and its many petals, denominations.

There aren't any verses that state a lost person cannot believe the gospel.

If there were, none of us would be having this conversation would we? Because we'd all be in the world damned in our sins.
And what a waste it would be, Jesus' sacrifice on the cross after delivering his ministry and the task for which he was born. To take the sins of the world upon himself on the cross. That whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. (eternal Salvation)

 

[Duskey]

that dark Hell spawn flower known as tulip

😆😆😆😆😆

 

[posthuman]

If there were, none of us would be having this conversation would we?

not if He didn't reach out and save any of us, no

 

[soggykitten]

not if He didn't reach out and save any of us, no

He didn't reach out and save any of us.
We reached out and accepted the free gift of grace that God sent to save the world and whosoever believes.

 

[posthuman]

He didn't reach out and save any of us.

oh, i didn't realize it was the sheep that go find the lost Shepherd & bring Him home.
guess i had it backwards

thanks

 

[posthuman]

". . who are kept by the power of self-determination"

what is that verse again? 1 Peter something..

 

[soggykitten]

oh, i didn't realize it was the sheep that go find the lost Shepherd & bring Him home.
guess i had it backwards

thanks

You do have it backwards, snark remark included.
You were lost the moment you bowed to tulip's teachings in any form. Tulip makes a mockery of God and is anti-Christ.

 

[John146]

The gospel of Christ is not the old law, but the new. 2 Cor 3:6, for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. Agrippa did not have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, and was, but, a natural man.

So one doesn’t need the Spirit to understand the OT?

 

[EleventhHour]

The natural man, who has not been regenerated, will not repent of breaking a spiritual law that he cannot understand, and thinks it to be foolish. John the baptist was preaching to regenerated children of God, and so were the Apostles, and also Jesus. Only those who have had their hearts changed to a fleshy heart, that have a conscience that can be pricked, will repent of breaking a spiritual law.

Absurd to think that John the Baptist was preaching to repent/change of mind to people who had already repented.

You make the word of God and Paul both liars

"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved" (Acts 16:31).

He should have stated, "Pray for your regeneration so you can believe."

 

[posthuman]

You do have it backwards, snark remark included.

wait, that's a double..

ok so it is the Shepherd who goes out and finds the sheep?
it wasn't Peter pulling himself out of the water by grabbing Jesus hand, it was Jesus reaching out and saving him?
it was Christ coming to us from heaven, not us building a tower to reach Him?

or it's not?

 

[throughfaith]

So far its clear there are no verses that say that " a lost man cannot believe the gospel?
but what we can see is the ' proof texts 'used out of context that folks believe say this .
Eisegesis (/ˌaɪsɪˈdʒiːsɪs/) is the process of interpreting text in such a way as to introduce one's own presuppositions, agendas or biases. It is commonly referred to as reading into the text. ... Exegesis is drawing out text's meaning in accordance with the author's context and discoverable meaning.