What 3 verses say that a lost man cannot believe the gospel?

[posthuman]

Yes whosever believes is saved .

• a lost man believes the gospel and is saved

thanks, this is the good part

we've got X ≠ X -- the lost becomes found! Adam is taken from the ground where he was made and placed in the garden - why not created in the garden? why not walk there himself? how far away was he made? why did he have to be placed?

how does X become 'not X' ?
there's some function applied G(X) = Y, and we're not talking about X anymore, we're talking about Y
X, by Theorem John 3:18, is condemned. not saved. by definition, because X does not believe
it is Y, who believes, that is saved.

X is the preimage of Y, and G transforms X, mapping it to Y



if Y believes, X is no more -- Y is a new creation, effected by G

so what is G?
how does G act on X?
does G originate with X?
is G 1:1? is G onto? does an inverse G' exist?

 

[posthuman]

if they were truly following the father then they would ' recognise ' the Son . They were not Following and learning of the Father and thus rejected the Son when they saw him and heard him . Unlike the ones genuinely learning of the Father and had not been decieved by the devil . This i s before the cross and the giving of the Holy spirit . To jews . This is not about gentiles in 2020 who cannot believe the G osepl
unless they are zapped by God in a hindu awakening experience.

“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”​

They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”​

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. You do the deeds of your father.”​

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”​

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”​

(John 8:37-47) ​

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this no longer applies because it's 2020 now?
really?
that's the best you got?
you think that's exegesis? bro that's flat out running away and hiding from Christ's words.

tell me about this passage. what is He telling them?
does anyone who is not born of God hear God's words?
does the Lord say it's 'because ya ain't trying hard enough' ?
what's all this talk of fathers about? about origins? about descendancy and inheritance? of absolutes?
do you change your ancestry? do you crawl into another mother's womb and become her son? or does that kind of thing require a supernatural transformation originating with and accomplished by the power of an outside force?
you started this thread asking for people to set 'em up so you could knock 'em down. go ahead and take another swing?

 

[throughfaith]

thanks, this is the good part

we've got X ≠ X -- the lost becomes found! Adam is taken from the ground where he was made and placed in the garden - why not created in the garden? why not walk there himself? how far away was he made? why did he have to be placed?

how does X become 'not X' ?
there's some function applied G(X) = Y, and we're not talking about X anymore, we're talking about Y
X, by Theorem John 3:18, is condemned. not saved. by definition, because X does not believe
it is Y, who believes, that is saved.

X is the preimage of Y, and G transforms X, mapping it to Y

View attachment 220634

if Y believes, X is no more -- Y is a new creation, effected by G

so what is G?
how does G act on X?
does G originate with X?
is G 1:1? is G onto? does an inverse G' exist?

Faulty analogy. We are not the first Man and woman.
Just like a drug addict can realise He is hopelessly trapped in his pattern of behaviour and in bodage to substance . A sinner can realise his lost ness when confronted by the truth of the gosepl . The Gosepl is the Power of God .

 

[throughfaith]

“I know that you are Abraham’s descendants, but you seek to kill Me, because My word has no place in you. I speak what I have seen with My Father, and you do what you have seen with your father.”​

They answered and said to Him, “Abraham is our father.”​

Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham’s children, you would do the works of Abraham. But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this. You do the deeds of your father.”​

Then they said to Him, “We were not born of fornication; we have one Father—God.”​

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and came from God; nor have I come of Myself, but He sent Me. Why do you not understand My speech? Because you are not able to listen to My word. You are of your father the devil, and the desires of your father you want to do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and does not stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks from his own resources, for he is a liar and the father of it. But because I tell the truth, you do not believe Me. Which of you convicts Me of sin? And if I tell the truth, why do you not believe Me? He who is of God hears God’s words; therefore you do not hear, because you are not of God.”​

(John 8:37-47) ​

​

​

​

this no longer applies because it's 2020 now?
really?
that's the best you got?
you think that's exegesis? bro that's flat out running away and hiding from Christ's words.

tell me about this passage. what is He telling them?
does anyone who is not born of God hear God's words?
does the Lord say it's 'because ya ain't trying hard enough' ?
what's all this talk of fathers about? about origins? about descendancy and inheritance? of absolutes?
do you change your ancestry? do you crawl into another mother's womb and become her son? or does that kind of thing require a supernatural transformation originating with and accomplished by the power of an outside force?
you started this thread asking for people to set 'em up so you could knock 'em down. go ahead and take another swing?

Quite plainly He is revealing their hypocrisy. They SAY they are followers of Abraham but unlike Abraham they are not Following truly otherwise they should recognise the Son . Just like those that did ' hear ' . They responded to the Son because they actually were followers of the Torah and not like these hypocrites. Just like a marvel fan at comic con . The true fans recognise the authenticity of a comic because they have been following the plot all the previous comics . They recognise the 'voice 'and ' hear ' and ' see ' the 'words ' of the author . Against someone who has not been following along with the Author and has been following some other Author who has led them captive by a different plot .

 

[eternally-gratefull]

By God's foreknowledge he saw that no one would seek him, no, not one, Psalms 53:2 If God had not chosen an elect people from among those that would not seek him, none of us would go to heaven. Had God predestined all mankind to go to heaven, instead of giving them the freedom to choose for themselves, all mankind would be in heaven. God is "JUST" in his choosing.

You missed my point

no one would come unless god came to us, he sends the Hs to the world. Not just the elect. Hence the world has no excuse. Because they know God.. god did not keep them from knowing him, just allowed them to continue to love their sin. Or their religion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Is that what the scripture says?
Luke 18
9 Jesus[x] also told this parable to some who were confident that they were righteous and looked down[y] on everyone else. 10 “Two men went up[z] to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee[aa] and the other a tax collector.[ab] 11 The Pharisee stood and prayed about himself like this:[ac] ‘God, I thank[ad] you that I am not like other people:[ae] extortionists,[af] unrighteous people,[ag] adulterers—or even like this tax collector.[ah] 12 I fast twice[ai] a week; I give a tenth[aj] of everything I get.’ 13 The tax collector, however, stood[ak] far off and would not even look up[al] to heaven, but beat his breast and said, ‘God, be merciful[am] to me, sinner that I am!’[an] 14 I tell you that this man went down to his home justified[ao] rather than the Pharisee.[ap] For everyone who exalts[aq] himself will be humbled, but he who humbles himself will be exalted.”


The tulip doctrine, in any form, is that which allows the believer in it to exalt himself as one picked by God to be saved. While it must conversely teach God picked those whom he would damn. If all that was predetermined before the world by the creator of it, humans have no need to hold faith, hope, or belief. Because God already saved whom he would save and God does not change. (Numbers 23:19)

yes it is what God said

the tax collector got on he knees and cried out

the pharisee came to God and Thanked god he was not like the tax collector. And thought to himself how great he was and how God must love him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No we do not all agree.

A man can not redeem himself by any works of the LAW.
The works of Abraham are a different matter since they are works of FAITH.

But abraham did those works of faith because he believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness (Rom 4)

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Faulty analogy. We are not the first Man and woman.
Just like a drug addict can realise He is hopelessly trapped in his pattern of behaviour and in bodage to substance . A sinner can realise his lost ness when confronted by the truth of the gosepl . The Gosepl is the Power of God .

Ie the tax collector

he did what Jesus said must be done to enter the kingdom

he became “poor in spirit”

The word translated poor there literally means bankrupt, devoid of all things, he came to the end of himself and that why he got on his knees and cried out. He knew he had no hope.
now he did not get their on his own, but he did not get their in a split second when he was regenerated then cried out either.

 

[posthuman]

sinner can realise his lost ness when confronted by the truth of the gosepl . The Gosepl is the Power of God .

If it is the unbelieving who causes himself to believe, then it is not the power of God, but the power of man.

Why do you keep making excuses to ignore the scripture?

 

[posthuman]

But abraham did those works of faith because he believed God and it was accounted to him as righteousness (Rom 4)

And the promise to Abraham was not passed through the son of his own devising but through the supernatural birth.

 

[John146]

If it is the unbelieving who causes himself to believe, then it is not the power of God, but the power of man.

Why do you keep making excuses to ignore the scripture?

He lighteth every man that cometh into the world. If man searches for more light, God will give him more light. If man rejects the light he's been given, then God will allow him to live in darkness.

If a man is searching with a sincere heart for truth, God will send him more truth. See the Ethiopian Eunuch.

 

[posthuman]

See the Ethiopian Eunuch.

'how can I understand unless someone explains it to me?'

It is the gift of God, coming from outside ourselves into ourselves, acting on ourselves. The eye sees nothing unless light first shines into it. See Ecclesiastes, and the gifts of the Spirit, and the incarnation of Christ

 

[eternally-gratefull]

And the promise to Abraham was not passed through the son of his own devising but through the supernatural birth.

Yes as Paul said in romans 9. Gods chowing if isreal was not because f Abraham’s own devising or the Righteousness if the fathers or the will of man. But by a gods sovereign power

 

[John146]

'how can I understand unless someone explains it to me?'

It is the gift of God, coming from outside ourselves into ourselves, acting on ourselves. The eye sees nothing unless light first shines into it. See Ecclesiastes, and the gifts of the Spirit, and the incarnation of Christ

He was searching for truth and God used Phillip to give it to him. God nor Phillip forced him to believe.

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

 

[posthuman]

He was searching for truth and God used Phillip to give it to him. God nor Phillip forced him to believe.

31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32 The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33 In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34 And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.

"How can they go unless they are sent?"

All of this originates with God; it is to His glory and by His power

 

[John146]

"How can they go unless they are sent?"

All of this originates with God; it is to His glory and by His power

Absolutely! No one would deny this. God gave His only begotten Son. God inspired the words of truth that we might believe. It all comes from God. Man doesn't have to do anything but believe in light of the truth he's been given.

 

[posthuman]

They responded to the Son because they actually were followers of the Torah

Sounds nice but that's blatant eisegesis.

Jesus explicitly tells us why one hears and why one doesn't. It's not because of Torah - observation.
Because of who their father is. Verse 47.

Do you not like what Jesus says?
Sinners are entering the kingdom before the teachers of the Torah!

 

[posthuman]

Just like a marvel fan at comic con

WOW

you reject actual scripture, dismissing it out of hand as "inaplicable analogy" and "no longer relevant" and replace it with comic book conventions??

 

[ForestGreenCook]

You missed my point

no one would come unless god came to us, he sends the Hs to the world. Not just the elect. Hence the world has no excuse. Because they know God.. god did not keep them from knowing him, just allowed them to continue to love their sin. Or their religion.

Not all people know God. There are many in this world that believe in evolution, and does not believe that God exists.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not all people know God. There are many in this world that believe in evolution, and does not believe that God exists.

Romans 1 says otherwise. I would stick with the word