WE are judged by what we do vs. we are saved by faith alone.
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I said it because I not only think its possible to receive the knowledge and Spirit of God without regeneration, but demonstrably true. Do you think that the Apostle Judas Iscariot was sent out to preach the Gospel of the Kingdom, and to perform miracles in Jesus' name, without experiencing the knowledge and Spirit of Christ?
Of course he did! And yet, Judas turned away from that knowledge, and away from the Spirit of God, choosing instead to rely on his own judgment, and on his own wants. And so, he went spiritually blind, and lost the power of God. His end was suicide.
We may *taste* of the Holy Spirit and His power, but not be regenerated into a new creature. That is patently clear to me. I've known people over the course of decades who knew Christ and his power, only to reject a complete transformation from his will to God's will. It was a matter of serving God *when it was convenient* and *served selfish interests.* Only when God's will aligned with the man's own carnal will did spiritual life appear to be experienced. But inasmuch as the man never really went to the cross, regeneration did not really happen.
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I'm an eternal security advocate, a Predestinarian. There are slight differences between those in this school on matters of free will, and in this case, how we know who has not received eternal life. Interesting matters to discuss.
It is correct that once God fully knows someone, to the extent they are regenerated, they will never be lost. God will not lose one of His sheep. But I do believe that men can receive the knowledge of Christ without truly coming to salvation. They can experience the power of God, and not be saved. There are Elmer Gantrys out there!
Of course he did! And yet, Judas turned away from that knowledge, and away from the Spirit of God, choosing instead to rely on his own judgment, and on his own wants. And so, he went spiritually blind, and lost the power of God. His end was suicide.
We may *taste* of the Holy Spirit and His power, but not be regenerated into a new creature. That is patently clear to me. I've known people over the course of decades who knew Christ and his power, only to reject a complete transformation from his will to God's will. It was a matter of serving God *when it was convenient* and *served selfish interests.* Only when God's will aligned with the man's own carnal will did spiritual life appear to be experienced. But inasmuch as the man never really went to the cross, regeneration did not really happen.
[/QUOTE]
I'm an eternal security advocate, a Predestinarian. There are slight differences between those in this school on matters of free will, and in this case, how we know who has not received eternal life. Interesting matters to discuss.
It is correct that once God fully knows someone, to the extent they are regenerated, they will never be lost. God will not lose one of His sheep. But I do believe that men can receive the knowledge of Christ without truly coming to salvation. They can experience the power of God, and not be saved. There are Elmer Gantrys out there!
It also includes the moral law as found on the tablets of Moses. See Romans 7...
Romans 7:4 (KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
as well as...
Romans 7:7 (KJV) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Covetousness is discouraged in the New and forbidden in the Old...
Colossians 3:5 (KJV) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Exodus 20:17 (KJV) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
So yes, a verse like Rom 7:4 refers to ALL demands of God to obtain eternal life regardless of which Testament. Jesus fulfilled the demands of the law that were against us.
Colossians 2:13-15 (KJV) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
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Romans 7:4 (KJV) Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
as well as...
Romans 7:7 (KJV) What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
Covetousness is discouraged in the New and forbidden in the Old...
Colossians 3:5 (KJV) Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
Exodus 20:17 (KJV) Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.
So yes, a verse like Rom 7:4 refers to ALL demands of God to obtain eternal life regardless of which Testament. Jesus fulfilled the demands of the law that were against us.
Colossians 2:13-15 (KJV) And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses; Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross; And having spoiled principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.
.
We come into the Presence of God via the Cleansing by Jesus blood by FAITH ALONE, we are purged. God FORGETS all of those sins, God will still Judge us on everything we do as Christians. Some will have BIGGER MANSIONS than others etc. If I own a plant and hire 10 workers, they all get the same chance to impress and move up the latter, we however will judge their performance and make a determination going forth.
We can obtain Salvation, and still be Judged, if people bury their talents, God is go to Judge them on that.
We can obtain Salvation, and still be Judged, if people bury their talents, God is go to Judge them on that.
I don't think it's an Either-Or proposition. I believe it's both
1. We are saved by Faith alone in Jesus and his atonment for all sin
2. We are also judged by what we do
Remember, Jesus talked about who would be "greatest" and "least" in the Kingdom of Heaven. So I would guess this is where the works come it. SO I guess you could be a mediocre Christian and still be saved but your place in the Kingdom won't be as lofty.
1. We are saved by Faith alone in Jesus and his atonment for all sin
2. We are also judged by what we do
Remember, Jesus talked about who would be "greatest" and "least" in the Kingdom of Heaven. So I would guess this is where the works come it. SO I guess you could be a mediocre Christian and still be saved but your place in the Kingdom won't be as lofty.
"Which of you, having a slave plowing or tending sheep, will say to him when he has come in from the field, 'Come immediately and sit down to eat'? "But will he not say to him, 'Prepare something for me to eat, and properly clothe yourself and serve me while I eat and drink; and afterward you may eat and drink'? "He does not thank the slave because he did the things which were commanded, does he? "So you too, when you do all the things which are commanded you, say, 'We are unworthy slaves; we have done only that which we ought to have done.'" Luke 17:7-10 (NASB)
Hebrew 11
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
Noah don't see flood when he built an arch,
So his faith in God cause him built an arch
Believe never see how Jesus judge on the last day but He inform us what the judgement look like
Matt 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
As Noah take action because his faith when God tell him about flood so do believer believe what Jesus say on Matt 25 than take action help feed the hungry.
7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen, in holy fear built an ark to save his family. By his faith he condemned the world and became heir of the righteousness that is in keeping with faith.
Noah don't see flood when he built an arch,
So his faith in God cause him built an arch
Believe never see how Jesus judge on the last day but He inform us what the judgement look like
Matt 25
34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’
As Noah take action because his faith when God tell him about flood so do believer believe what Jesus say on Matt 25 than take action help feed the hungry.
Paul is not setting up a contest between observing Jewish/Christian morals vs. faith. In these verses the contest is between a work righteousness model of the Old Testament and the faith model of the New Testament.
There are times in the Bible where Paul may be addressing good works instead of works of the Mosaic law. In the cases of those verses he’s referring to the works righteousness model of the Mosaic law.
There are times in the Bible where Paul may be addressing good works instead of works of the Mosaic law. In the cases of those verses he’s referring to the works righteousness model of the Mosaic law.
I never implied there was a contest. Sin kills in the Old the same way it kills in the New.
In both Old and New, it is by faith.
"Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith. Habakkuk 2:4 (NASB)
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." Galatians 3:11 (NASB)
In both Old and New, it is by faith.
"Behold, as for the proud one, His soul is not right within him; But the righteous will live by his faith. Habakkuk 2:4 (NASB)
Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS MAN SHALL LIVE BY FAITH." Galatians 3:11 (NASB)
Here’s some more of Matthew 25:
40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'
41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
It’s a powerful statement, if you do wrong by people and never repent...off to hell you go.
40 And the King will answer them, 'Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'
41 Then he will say to those at his left hand, 'Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
It’s a powerful statement, if you do wrong by people and never repent...off to hell you go.
Matt 25 god promise to judge that way, whosoever believe prepare how win and fake action.
Faith credited as righteousness, Noah faith credited of righteoness and demonstrate by his action
Built an arch
Believer faith on Matt 25 credited as righteousness and demonsrtate by their action, fed the hungry
Imagine if Noah say he have faith but never build an arch? Did he save?
If so can you say Noah not save because not work (not build an arch)?
No, the root cause he not build an arch is lack of faith
He build an arch and save. Can you say he save because work?
No, he save because of faith, faith cause him work (build an arch) so the root cause of his salvation is faith, not work.u
Faith credited as righteousness, Noah faith credited of righteoness and demonstrate by his action
Built an arch
Believer faith on Matt 25 credited as righteousness and demonsrtate by their action, fed the hungry
Imagine if Noah say he have faith but never build an arch? Did he save?
If so can you say Noah not save because not work (not build an arch)?
No, the root cause he not build an arch is lack of faith
He build an arch and save. Can you say he save because work?
No, he save because of faith, faith cause him work (build an arch) so the root cause of his salvation is faith, not work.u
1 John 5:16-17 NLT
[16] If you see a fellow believer sinning in a way that does not lead to death, you should pray, and God will give that person life. But there is a sin that leads to death, and I am not saying you should pray for those who commit it. [17] All wicked actions are sin, but not every sin leads to death.
I don’t know how to tell if a believer is sinning a sin that leads to death or not lead to death, do you?
I would pray for a brother regardless, if I see him sinning, wouldn’t you?
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