Water baptism is necessary to be in the first resurrection
- Thread starter Runningman
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Or, worded differently, salvation requires God to save someone. The only requirement for salvation is faith in Christ.
On that basis, God DOES save the person.
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
What the verse doesn't say is that "God was pleased to elect some to believe."
On that basis, God DOES save the person.
1 Cor 1:21 - For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe.
What the verse doesn't say is that "God was pleased to elect some to believe."
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I may be missing it but where in the bible are we told being saved and being born again are two separate things?
As I understand it, we're born spiritually dead, removed from understanding or reaching , the righteousness of God. Because we're born in the flesh that is worldly, carnal, selfish.
When we head God's leading to his Salvation, and obtain our faith and Salvation through the bestowal of those irrevocable gifts of God, we're the saved from the spiritually dead condition into which we were born. And that is the meaning of being born again in the spirit absent in us at our first birth.
We are born spiritually dead if water. Then we're regenerated and born again by and through the living water of Jesus word, and Holy Spirit.
How are we saved from being spiritually dead at birth in the flesh if we're not also born again in the spirit that overcame that former human condition in us?
I don't see how we're saved from being born spiritually dead if that salvific transformation doesn't also overcome that condition we were born into the first time so to make us born again, spiritually alive and conscious of the now indwelling Holy Spirit.
As I understand it, we're born spiritually dead, removed from understanding or reaching , the righteousness of God. Because we're born in the flesh that is worldly, carnal, selfish.
When we head God's leading to his Salvation, and obtain our faith and Salvation through the bestowal of those irrevocable gifts of God, we're the saved from the spiritually dead condition into which we were born. And that is the meaning of being born again in the spirit absent in us at our first birth.
We are born spiritually dead if water. Then we're regenerated and born again by and through the living water of Jesus word, and Holy Spirit.
How are we saved from being spiritually dead at birth in the flesh if we're not also born again in the spirit that overcame that former human condition in us?
I don't see how we're saved from being born spiritually dead if that salvific transformation doesn't also overcome that condition we were born into the first time so to make us born again, spiritually alive and conscious of the now indwelling Holy Spirit.
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Could you provide evidence of this from Scripture? Thanks.
Eph 2:5 shows that regeneration (born again, made alive) is equated with being saved.
made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
The last phrase is a clarification of the first part of the verse. They go together.
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Being conceived of the Holy Spirit, I really get the impression that Jesus was born "from above" to begin with and did not need to be "born again". He was born of the Spirit when he was born in the flesh. Well, way before that actually. But the man was born "born of the spirit" to begin with.
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I feel sorry for those who are in lands where water is scarce. 
Maybe at this juncture John 15 could shed some light on this matter of water.
Jesus said, I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Jesus said, I am the true vine, and my Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in me that does not bear fruit he takes away, and every branch that does bear fruit he prunes, that it may bear more fruit. Already you are clean because of the word that I have spoken to you. Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me.
Titus 3:4 But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that being justified by his grace we might become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
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Well we know the 10 Commandments apply and that the LORD Jesus Christ Kept them Perfectly for us.
So we have a Eternal High Priest seated at the Right Hand of the FATHER that forever intercedes on our behalf.
With that said, we are not given the 10 Commandments to obey but we have been given JESUS to obey and the Holy Spirit to write God's laws on our hearts and minds.
Maybe this is what some may mean when they say = "no longer apply"???
All i know is that sin is sin no matter how you spin that sin.
And a Win is a Win when we obey His Word
Therefore Fear God and keep the commandments
Which ones you say? the ones that Keep us His Way
Not from the law of Moses - NO not that which passed away
But the LAMB Blood Covenant of this NEW DAY
Where the COMFORTER comes to STAY
i know no other Way
So we have a Eternal High Priest seated at the Right Hand of the FATHER that forever intercedes on our behalf.
With that said, we are not given the 10 Commandments to obey but we have been given JESUS to obey and the Holy Spirit to write God's laws on our hearts and minds.
Maybe this is what some may mean when they say = "no longer apply"???
All i know is that sin is sin no matter how you spin that sin.
And a Win is a Win when we obey His Word
Therefore Fear God and keep the commandments
Which ones you say? the ones that Keep us His Way
Not from the law of Moses - NO not that which passed away
But the LAMB Blood Covenant of this NEW DAY
Where the COMFORTER comes to STAY
i know no other Way
I don't consider the ten commandments to be the law of Moses. Moses merely delivered the tablets God inscribed with God's law. They are the commands of and from God. Not Moses.
And if we read them I think we see they encompass every detail as pertains to keeping ourselves in God's way.
Jesus said, the two greatest commands of God are to love God with all our heart and mind.
And to love our neighbor as ourselves. Upon those two commands hang the laws and the prophets.
I see that as informing us the laws of God are synonymous with those two greatest commands. Because those two encompass the ten.
And if we read them I think we see they encompass every detail as pertains to keeping ourselves in God's way.
Jesus said, the two greatest commands of God are to love God with all our heart and mind.
And to love our neighbor as ourselves. Upon those two commands hang the laws and the prophets.
I see that as informing us the laws of God are synonymous with those two greatest commands. Because those two encompass the ten.
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Your super close to the Kingdom but just a little off.
Never conclude that what the LORD fulfilled was a return to the law of Moses for us.
But you are SUPER ClOSE here: "Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”
Never conclude that what the LORD fulfilled was a return to the law of Moses for us.
But you are SUPER ClOSE here: "Jesus said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ This is the first and great commandment. And the second is like it: ‘You shall love your neighbor as yourself.’
On these two commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets.”