Understanding God’s election
- Thread starter dougcho
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Why would you say that? He essentially teaches what you teach.
You~~It's possible to lose,forfeit or jump out of His hand......and not spend eternity with Him.
Him~~It's possible to lose,forfeit or jump out of His hand.....and not spend eternity with Him.
It's just different time frames.
We, as believers, have eternal life NOW. And WILL spend eternity with Him.
You~~It's possible to lose,forfeit or jump out of His hand......and not spend eternity with Him.
Him~~It's possible to lose,forfeit or jump out of His hand.....and not spend eternity with Him.
It's just different time frames.
We, as believers, have eternal life NOW. And WILL spend eternity with Him.
-
1
- Show all
Why do people simply throw out Bible verse references, without citing the Bible verse content, as evidence for their religious opinions, when those verses don't even mention the words or terms they are claiming they are about?
Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matt. 22:29-32
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
1Pe 1:4
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Heb 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Colossians 3:1-4
3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
1Co 15:19
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
None of these mention living in heaven for eternity.
Mat 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
Matt. 22:29-32
29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
1Pe 1:4
To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
Heb 9:15
And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament, that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.
Colossians 3:1-4
3:1 If ye then be risen with Christ, seek those things which are above, where Christ sitteth on the right hand of God.
2 Set your affection on things above, not on things on the earth.
3 For ye are dead, and your life is hid with Christ in God.
4 When Christ, who is our life, shall appear, then shall ye also appear with him in glory.
1Co 15:19
If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.
None of these mention living in heaven for eternity.
John 14:6
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
This is the rub. The original language BOLSTERS these simple and straightforward statements. The original language EMPHATICALLY bolsters these simple statements. The original, in no way, puts "questions" on these simple statements.
But our intelligence, Presupposition, and biases will find every which way to put them in OUR context.
The simple truth...Someone who believes that believers can come into condemnation and only possibly has eternal life.....Has not heard His word.
That is not loss of salvation or never really saved......They have never heard His word of NEVER PERISH.
Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father except through Me.
John 5:24
“Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life.
This is the rub. The original language BOLSTERS these simple and straightforward statements. The original language EMPHATICALLY bolsters these simple statements. The original, in no way, puts "questions" on these simple statements.
But our intelligence, Presupposition, and biases will find every which way to put them in OUR context.
The simple truth...Someone who believes that believers can come into condemnation and only possibly has eternal life.....Has not heard His word.
That is not loss of salvation or never really saved......They have never heard His word of NEVER PERISH.
-
1
- Show all
I'm using some of your terminology for your convenience. My preference is to drop the theological terminology.
I was reflecting on some of this earlier and catching glimpses of other ways to express things Scripturally and to let Paul's prayer sink in and be a recipient of the understanding of Christ's love Paul prayed effectively for all of us.
We've touched on in the past week or so the concept of language of accommodation to help us understand God based upon things we experience in temporal life. I think there are better answers available to us if we shed some things and allow His Spirit to explain them from His Word. IMO we're still scratching the surface of what's in His Word for us.
With that said, and coming back to the surface to answer you, yes, there is a sense of familial love in Scripture. God is our Father. Christ is our first-born brother. We are his siblings and siblings of one another in Him. So, comparing with life as we know it, yes, there is a sense in which the love of our Father for His Children is spoken of in this way. But, back to accommodation, I don't think it's that simple when dealing with God who is Love and with the Love of Christ that surpasses our knowledge which means our intellectual grasp of something.
Basically, the same concepts can be applied to His grace.
I was reflecting on some of this earlier and catching glimpses of other ways to express things Scripturally and to let Paul's prayer sink in and be a recipient of the understanding of Christ's love Paul prayed effectively for all of us.
We've touched on in the past week or so the concept of language of accommodation to help us understand God based upon things we experience in temporal life. I think there are better answers available to us if we shed some things and allow His Spirit to explain them from His Word. IMO we're still scratching the surface of what's in His Word for us.
With that said, and coming back to the surface to answer you, yes, there is a sense of familial love in Scripture. God is our Father. Christ is our first-born brother. We are his siblings and siblings of one another in Him. So, comparing with life as we know it, yes, there is a sense in which the love of our Father for His Children is spoken of in this way. But, back to accommodation, I don't think it's that simple when dealing with God who is Love and with the Love of Christ that surpasses our knowledge which means our intellectual grasp of something.
Basically, the same concepts can be applied to His grace.
IOW, you really don't know or aren't very sure of the kind of love God has for his children? Would it be a lower grade love than Abraham had for Issac when he went to offer him up to God out of obedience?
Okay...so permit me to reframe my question because you just muddied up the waters a bit. You admit there is a sense of filial love in scripture but earlier you saw God's love in Jn 3:16 only in the general, common, beneficent sense. So, here's the question that is far more restrictive than the previous one:
With what kind of love does God love his only Begotten Son: Beneficent? Filial? Other?
Okay...so permit me to reframe my question because you just muddied up the waters a bit. You admit there is a sense of filial love in scripture but earlier you saw God's love in Jn 3:16 only in the general, common, beneficent sense. So, here's the question that is far more restrictive than the previous one:
With what kind of love does God love his only Begotten Son: Beneficent? Filial? Other?
Since agape love treasures that which is inherently valuable, it experiences displeasure in whatever devalues that whch is inherently valuable. So, in the case of creatures, God loves the creature for whatb is inherntly valuable in it, but hates/is displeased with th creature to the degree that it devalues in itself and other creatures that which is inherently valuable. This is why scripture says that God hates sinners, but also says that He loves sinners.
So God's love for the Son cannot be mixed with any displeasure. But His love for creatures can be mixed with some or much displeasure. Even cretaures who are presently totally sold out to devaluing everything God loves, are loved by God for what in them is intrinsically valuable: even if that is merely the repressed potential remaining in them by design to repent and begin to grow toward love and goodness.
So God's love for the Son cannot be mixed with any displeasure. But His love for creatures can be mixed with some or much displeasure. Even cretaures who are presently totally sold out to devaluing everything God loves, are loved by God for what in them is intrinsically valuable: even if that is merely the repressed potential remaining in them by design to repent and begin to grow toward love and goodness.