Call it filial as you chose. I'll understand it. But God is love and I don't think any of us truly understand this.
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With Love as best as it can be described in language of accommodation which seems to be more through the entire Text than with one of two adjectives.
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Reading 1John it seems to me the best we can do to understand Love is to love one another as Christ loved us which IMO we're not doing very well.
Wouldn't it be more productive if we all were redeeming our limited time seeking to know more than this or that theory about what the kosmos means in John3:16 in order to prove or to disprove a theological system of interpretation?
Huh? And what kind of love would that be? Would it be "agape" style love, as PT suggested?
Re your last paragraph: Been there, done that -- most especially with
Jn 3:16! What you and many others don't understand (or don't want to understand) is that the ancient Hebrews NEVER thought of themselves as being part of the world -- as being just another nation among many other nations. And what is so ironic here is that the writings of John the apostle bears this truth out. Look very closely, for example, at
1Jn 2:2 in which he isolates his primary audience (messianic Jews) from the world. He did not include his original audience in with the "whole world". In part "b" of the text it starts with ....BUT which denotes a contrast. John clearly did not include his original readership in with the "whole world". He could have. He could have written it much differently. He could have said something along the lines of, "He atoned for our sins and the sins of the rest of the world." Or he could have said, "He atoned for our sins and for the sins of all the other nations."
Then you have a second problem with
Jn 3:16, since you think "world" means everyone in the distributive sense. The problem is found in the very next verse that states in part, "...but to [actually, really, truly] SAVE the world through Him." So...if the "world" in v.16 must be understood in the distributive sense, then for you to be consistent with yourself, so should it be also in v.17. But of course, you will twist v.17 around to say something that isn't in the text! You would have to say something along the lines of that "God sent his Son into the world to offer everyone the opportunity to be saved." Or God sent his Son into the world to save all those of the world who want to be saved", etc.
And this is hardly the end of all the problems associated with your understanding of the "kosmos" in
Jn 3:16.
@PaulThomson is well able to speak for himself. I'm familiar with part of the studies of which he speaks and of several discussions and studies about the various Greek words for love. I've also studied to some degree in the past love from the Hebrew Scriptures. My comments have been based in a lot of reading and contemplation, and I see the value in what Paul prayed for and that the Love of God is vast and hard to grasp.
We should remain in GJohn for now to discuss kosmos in GJohn. John mentions it in GJohn approx. 79 times and in contexts can be using it differently.
If John being an ancient Hebrew never thought of himself as being part of the kosmos, then this would seem to mean that God loved the kosmos and thus not the ancient Hebrews.
In John1:9-10 the kosmos was made through Jesus and He was in the kosmos. I think it's pretty easy to see how John is speaking of the kosmos in the early part of this document.
John3:16-17:
- God so loved the kosmos - or God loved the kosmos in this manner - God gave His only Son for this purpose: so, every man (in the kosmos that was made through His Son) who believes into His Son may have eternal life
- Clarifying John3:16: God did not send His Son (through whom the kosmos was made) into the kosmos (that was made through His Son) for this purpose: to judge the kosmos (that was made through His Son), rather [God sent His Son] for this purpose: so the kosmos (that was made through His Son) may be saved through Him.
The verses seem quite clear:
- In the context from John1 the kosmos was made through Jesus Christ
- God loved the kosmos & gave His Son Jesus Christ and sent His Son Jesus Christ into the kosmos that was made through Him
- To save the kosmos that was made through Jesus Christ
- The kosmos in context speaks of every man in the kosmos made through Jesus Christ
- every man in the kosmos who believes in Jesus Christ through whom the kosmos was made may have eternal life because God gave and sent His Son for this purpose
- This stems from or shows God's Love for the kosmos which was made through His Son Jesus Christ
So, it seems simple
- God loved the kosmos
- Within the kosmos every man who believes in God's Son may have eternal life
- From these verses how a man believes is not stated
- From these verses the kosmos and every man are correlated
- To limit or otherwise specify the meaning of every man in the kosmos from these 2 verses is argument from silence
So, then you believe that Jesus is saving every man in the "kosmos". After all...that's what the text says. And if you don't believe that universal salvation applies to every man that God supposedly loves, then Jesus failed dismally in his mission to save [every man] in the world.
Also, Jn 1:9-10 is talking about the "world" in the physical sense; whereas Jn 3:16 is focused more on the inhabitants of that world. You're trying conflate two different senses. Therefore, the apostle John would not have had conflicting views of the world, as you suggested. In fact, the "kosmos" has many definitions per BLB.classic.org:
https://www.blbclassic.org/lang/lexicon/Lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G2889&t=KJV
Also, you haven't resolved the contradictions that your interpretation of "kosmos" in the distributive sense creates. If God loves each and every person in the world, then he would be loving those who love Him and his Son while simultaneously hating the vast majority of the world who hate Him and his Son. You clearly want it both ways! It's no wonder you chose to opt for God's love merely in the beneficent sense since God's general benevolent disposition of heart accounts for his common grace that sustains all the inhabitants of this planet (righteous and unrighteous alike) with his temporal blessings. But even so...even though God sustains all the inhabitants of the earth with such grace, He does so first and foremost on behalf of Christ his faithful Servant to whom he promised that He would become a light to the nations (i.e. Gentiles) and bring his salvation to the ends of the earth (Isa 49:6). But in addition to this, God sustains the world daily with his common grace also for the
sake of the elect to whom God is patient,
for he's not willing that any of them should perish (2Pet 3:9)!
Now...back to Jn 3:16 for a moment. You opined yesterday that the kind of love in view in Jn 3:16 is the "beneficent" type. Yet, this general, benevolent disposition of God's heart that is spoken of in Mat 5:45 pertains to temporal, physical blessings that sustain all the inhabitants of this earth. But Jn 3:16 is speaking of eternal, spiritual blessings!
Moreover, the text itself speaks of a far deeper, greater love than that spoken of in Mat 5:45, since God "so loved the world that he GAVE..." He GAVE his only begotten Son. In other words, God
offered up his Son...God
sacrificed his Son for the benefit of the world. Therefore, the love that is in view in this passage, at bare minimum, is
sacrificial in nature! God offered up His own Son whom Loves INFINITELY -- who He treasures above all else! But there is no such sacrificial giving in a beneficent type of love. God doesn't sacrifice anything by making his sun to shine and his rain to fall on both the good and the evil inhabitants of this world. I would suggest that the kind of "agape" love spoken of here in Jn 3:16 is the kind of love that the Psalmist (himself in a covenant relationship with God) treasured more than life itself (Ps 63:3). And that kind of love is
covenantal in nature! It is this kind of love that accounts for God
knowing his elect personally, intimately and in a filial sense (Rom 8:29-30; 11:2, etc.). Conversely, the absence of this covenantal love explains what Jesus meant in Mat 7:23 when He said, "I never knew you, depart from Me you evildoers." What Jesus is really saying is that He never entered into a covenant [of love] relationship with those people, (cf. Deut 7:9, 12; 1Ki 23; 2Chron 6:14; Neh 1:5; 9:32; Dan 9:4) ! Therefore, the love that is spoken of in Jn 3:16 can only apply to the elect of the Gentile nations of the world. Can God love covenantantly those He never knew? Yet, what we learn from scripture is that the vast majority of the world is perishing precisely because God has not brought those sinners into a covenant of love relationship with Himself, which accounts for why He never knew them!
