Understanding God’s election
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from Revelation 3 verse 17-18 ~ You say, ‘I need nothing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind, and naked. I counsel you to buy from Me gold refined by fire so that you may become rich, white garments so that you may be clothed and your shameful nakedness not exposed, and salve to anoint your eyes so that you may see.
Thank you for the inspiration! I hope you and yours are well .
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@Rufus It's actually very interesting taking certain paths in discussion for a while. Being in the gutter is where you obviously thrive, and it even degenerates from there into the sewer of your calling Christians idolators - so false Christians - and other such absurd things. It's obvious the more one challenges you, it brings out the fact that there is no depth limitation to your depravity and not only sowing but escalating the strife. Really, it just ends in a 5-year old's I know you are but what am I exchange.
Granted running with the discussion for a while may seem as you say but is not final proof of it.
It's not clear to me what you mean by "ongoing salvation" and I'm not certain I recall what you think the full scope of salvation is. So, no comment unless you want to pursue it here or on another thread you may be inserting from.
It's not clear to me what you mean by "ongoing salvation" and I'm not certain I recall what you think the full scope of salvation is. So, no comment unless you want to pursue it here or on another thread you may be inserting from.
See.....This is your witness. Unbelievers are SCUM. Nothing you scum can do.
The Bible~~The Lord Jesus Christ died for sinners(everyone) and tore down the veil(Our depravity) so they could seek and find God in any place, at any time.
The Lord Jesus Christ FIXED our problem. You're still stuck on and IN the problem.
You and your followers on this forum alone should be ASHAMED of your witness to the unbelievers who have read your posts.
To the Unbeliever~~ The Lord Jesus Christ died for you. He lived, died and rose again for YOU personally......He simply asks for your trust in Him for your salvation....and that goes for ANYONE.
The Bible~~The Lord Jesus Christ died for sinners(everyone) and tore down the veil(Our depravity) so they could seek and find God in any place, at any time.
The Lord Jesus Christ FIXED our problem. You're still stuck on and IN the problem.
You and your followers on this forum alone should be ASHAMED of your witness to the unbelievers who have read your posts.
To the Unbeliever~~ The Lord Jesus Christ died for you. He lived, died and rose again for YOU personally......He simply asks for your trust in Him for your salvation....and that goes for ANYONE.
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With respect, your explanations at times leave more questions than the original ask.
If "personal remarks" means those such as in the post you quoted, reading back in the thread I think you'll find that personal remarks were about the extent of the content of the discussions I referenced in that post. Thus, my closing sentence in that post.
I'll take it that your comment re: my thinking re: salvation is now off the table.
If "personal remarks" means those such as in the post you quoted, reading back in the thread I think you'll find that personal remarks were about the extent of the content of the discussions I referenced in that post. Thus, my closing sentence in that post.
I'll take it that your comment re: my thinking re: salvation is now off the table.
Sadly, it appears Rufus' Discordian spirit is growing more and more.
We may choose peace over him as we wish. Meanwhile,poor Rufus lives with that spirit inside.
Sending prayers.
Who will join me?
God be with you Rufus.
We may choose peace over him as we wish. Meanwhile,poor Rufus lives with that spirit inside.
Sending prayers.
God be with you Rufus.
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Only in your world would you consider powerless, helpless sinners "SCUM"!
And your FWT does not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ efficaciously FIXED our problem! Jesus is only a potential Savior, remember? He only presents opportunities for people to be saved. What EFFECTIVELY "fixes" FWs' problem are sinners' "freewill". God's salvation in FWT is quid pro quo arrangement. The sinner does his part, then God reacts to do his.
You're so hopelessly and helplessly confused you don't even know what you believe.
And your FWT does not believe that the Lord Jesus Christ efficaciously FIXED our problem! Jesus is only a potential Savior, remember? He only presents opportunities for people to be saved. What EFFECTIVELY "fixes" FWs' problem are sinners' "freewill". God's salvation in FWT is quid pro quo arrangement. The sinner does his part, then God reacts to do his.
You're so hopelessly and helplessly confused you don't even know what you believe.
NKJ Matt 10:32-36 "Therefore whoever confesses Me before men, him I will also confess before My Father who is in heaven. 33 "But whoever denies Me before men, him I will also deny before My Father who is in heaven. 34 "Do not think that I came to bring peace on earth. I did not come to bring peace but a sword. 35 "For I have come to 'set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law'; 36 "and 'a man's enemies will be those of his own household.'
This is not the Household of God being divided. It is a man's household members who will be divided by [choosing to] confess in or to deny Jesus Christ in the presence of men.
This is not the Household of God being divided. It is a man's household members who will be divided by [choosing to] confess in or to deny Jesus Christ in the presence of men.
I have no idea who's saved and who isn't. If I were grading by the fruit of Spirit being exemplified, I might be distressed. But my comment wasn't about determining who is or is not saved, but the irony in believing that an individual's salvation is predicated on ongoing obedience and not being able to discern one's own disobedience.
See, you are still stuck on and in the problem(that has been solved).The Lord Jesus Christ saved everyone from their sin. He paid the Price for all sin.......He didn't pay the price for evil....Human good. Remember the tree?
He tore down the veil for ALL.....So ALL can believe. Make your choice.
And stop with the "potential savior" nonsense. You and yours have a potential savior. The Lord Jesus Christ is SOOO much bigger than your potential lottery god.
He tore down the veil for ALL.....So ALL can believe. Make your choice.
And stop with the "potential savior" nonsense. You and yours have a potential savior. The Lord Jesus Christ is SOOO much bigger than your potential lottery god.
So, ongoing salvation is not off the table? And now it's "an individual's salvation" and, correct me if I'm wrong, but you're commenting on what you think I believe re: salvation - which you're not really defining here. And I believe you're importing from another thread where I know I've never reached the depth of where I'd like the discussion to go.
I've already granted how the public discussions or comments on this thread can be viewed, and I have no quarrel with this, and I knew going in that there were issues to be considered. IMO we're encountering an extreme on this thread and FWIW I wanted to see how extreme in a certain direction and now I've seen it, though I think it can get even worse.
I've already granted how the public discussions or comments on this thread can be viewed, and I have no quarrel with this, and I knew going in that there were issues to be considered. IMO we're encountering an extreme on this thread and FWIW I wanted to see how extreme in a certain direction and now I've seen it, though I think it can get even worse.
Yesterday, I presented as food for thought a hypothetical situation whereby there was no Fall because Adam the Federal Head of humanity remained faithful and true to God. I believe I reasonably concluded from that kind of situation that God's love for Adam's progeny would have been bestowed upon them through the Man of Obedience since there are numerous explicit passages that tell us exactly who it is that God loves with a filial love, e.g. lovers of Him and his Son, the righteous, God-fearers, the just and faithful, covenant-keepers, commandment-keepers, etc. In this post I will continue this theme of Federal Headship and its extreme importance in theology, generally, and the Gospel even more specifically. So...without any further ado.... let's get down to it.
Ps 106:19-23
19 At Horeb they made a calf
and worshiped an idol cast from metal.
20 They exchanged their Glory
for an image of a bull, which eats grass.
21 They forgot the God who saved them,
who had done great things in Egypt,
22 miracles in the land of Ham
and awesome deeds by the Red Sea.
23 So he said he would destroy them —
had not Moses, his chosen one,
stood in the breach before him
to keep his wrath from destroying them.
NIV
We can read the full account of this sad event in Ex 32:7-35. And we should not forget that Moses was a type of Christ who voluntarily stood in the gap as a mediator, between a thrice Holy God and incorrigible sinners who for the most part could not get their spiritual act together, so Moses was even willing to offer his own life in exchange for the lives of rebels. They were rebellious in Egypt, rebellious in the wilderness, rebellious in the Land -- and even rebellious in exile! It's no wonder at all the Lord characterized Israel as "treacherous" and "a rebel from birth" (Isa 48:8). So much so that God made it crystal clear in the same passage that he would delay his wrath and hold it back but not because of them! For his own name's sake and for his own glory he would show mercy (vv.9-11).
Of course, God did not take Moses up on his offer, but nonetheless he will still merciful to Israel, since only 3,000 perished by the sword of the Levities and eventually other idolaters died from a plague as their punishment.
So...once again we can see that God's mercy came through the mediator Moses. If Moses had not offered his own life in exchange for theirs, God would have utterly destroyed that entire generation of Israelites and started over from scratch with Moses.
In my next post, I'll wind this up with a few more passages -- one being a very overlooked or glossed over NT text that speaks volumes and is so profoundly rich in soteriological truth my finite mind cannot begin to plumb the depths of the passage.
Ps 106:19-23
19 At Horeb they made a calf
and worshiped an idol cast from metal.
20 They exchanged their Glory
for an image of a bull, which eats grass.
21 They forgot the God who saved them,
who had done great things in Egypt,
22 miracles in the land of Ham
and awesome deeds by the Red Sea.
23 So he said he would destroy them —
had not Moses, his chosen one,
stood in the breach before him
to keep his wrath from destroying them.
NIV
We can read the full account of this sad event in Ex 32:7-35. And we should not forget that Moses was a type of Christ who voluntarily stood in the gap as a mediator, between a thrice Holy God and incorrigible sinners who for the most part could not get their spiritual act together, so Moses was even willing to offer his own life in exchange for the lives of rebels. They were rebellious in Egypt, rebellious in the wilderness, rebellious in the Land -- and even rebellious in exile! It's no wonder at all the Lord characterized Israel as "treacherous" and "a rebel from birth" (Isa 48:8). So much so that God made it crystal clear in the same passage that he would delay his wrath and hold it back but not because of them! For his own name's sake and for his own glory he would show mercy (vv.9-11).
Of course, God did not take Moses up on his offer, but nonetheless he will still merciful to Israel, since only 3,000 perished by the sword of the Levities and eventually other idolaters died from a plague as their punishment.
So...once again we can see that God's mercy came through the mediator Moses. If Moses had not offered his own life in exchange for theirs, God would have utterly destroyed that entire generation of Israelites and started over from scratch with Moses.
In my next post, I'll wind this up with a few more passages -- one being a very overlooked or glossed over NT text that speaks volumes and is so profoundly rich in soteriological truth my finite mind cannot begin to plumb the depths of the passage.