Understanding God’s election
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Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
Romans 5 verses 18-19 ~ Just as one trespass brought condemnation for all men, so also one act of righteousness brought justification and life for all men. For just as through the disobedience of the one man (Adam) the many were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one man (Jesus Christ) the many will be made righteous.
James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .
Adam was of the natural world. Agree, or disagree?
Adam was seen as good. Agree, or disagree?
Since Adam disobeyed, which affected all of creation, men are now seen as NOT good.
Agree, or disagree?
Scripture says man is evil, wicked, vile, corrupt, none righteous, all gone astray.
Agree, or disagree?
Psalm 14 verses 1-3; Job 15 verse 16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
Adam was seen as good. Agree, or disagree?
Since Adam disobeyed, which affected all of creation, men are now seen as NOT good.
Agree, or disagree?
Scripture says man is evil, wicked, vile, corrupt, none righteous, all gone astray.
Agree, or disagree?
Psalm 14 verses 1-3; Job 15 verse 16 ~ The fool says in his heart, “There is no God.” They are corrupt; their acts are vile. There is no one who does good. The LORD looks down from heaven upon the sons of men to see if any understand, if any seek God. All have turned away, they have together become corrupt; there is no one who does good, not even one. Man is vile and corrupt.
Re "The arguments of atheists are easy to knock down because they are so full of themselves.": Well, in the mid-1970s
I was chagrined to have to admit that in a radio debate between the evangelist Bob Harrington and the atheist Madelyn O'Hare,
she won, which motivated me to learn better answers than what he had given--and I believe I have done so.
I was chagrined to have to admit that in a radio debate between the evangelist Bob Harrington and the atheist Madelyn O'Hare,
she won, which motivated me to learn better answers than what he had given--and I believe I have done so.
Ephesians 4 verse 17-18; Luke 6 verse 43; Jeremiah 10 verse 14 In the futility of their thinking, unbelievers are darkened in their understanding and alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardness of their hearts. A diseased tree cannot bear good fruit. Every man is senseless and devoid of knowledge.
Here's a hypothetical, which I intend to expand upon later with real life examples from the Word. Here it is: What if Adam had passed the righteousness test in the Garden by remaining true to God? If that had happened, there would have been no death in this world or any curse upon it. Adam and all his progeny would live forever. I must wonder in such a scenario how Adam's descendants would have looked upon their Grand Patriarch. Would they be eternally grateful to him for his obedience to God, which would account for their eternal blissfulness, joy and peace upon a pristine earth? Or even more importantly, would they view God's love for them as coming through Adam their federal head, since God loves those who are obedient to Him (Jn 10:17; 15:10), who love Him and his Son (Jn 14:21; 16:27; Ex 20:6; Deut 7:9-11), who keep the demands of his covenant (Ps 25:10; 103:18), who keep his commandments (Ps 103:18), loves those who are just and faithful (Ps 37:28), loves all who call upon Him (Ps 86:5), and loves greatly those who fear Him (Ps 103:11, 17)? After all, if had not been for their patriarch's obedience, where would they be?
I do not think that it's far feteched whatsoever to think that all of Adam's progeny would have been eternally grateful to him for his faithfulness to the Creator. And not only that but that God's love for them comes through their obedient Federal Head. God blessed Adam and all his progeny due to his obedience.
I do not think that it's far feteched whatsoever to think that all of Adam's progeny would have been eternally grateful to him for his faithfulness to the Creator. And not only that but that God's love for them comes through their obedient Federal Head. God blessed Adam and all his progeny due to his obedience.
And by the way, "evil" isn't a thing! Evil is the deprivation of something. No one would know that shadows exist if it weren't for sunlight. And so it is with evil. It's the absence of good. No saint will ever know what evil is in the New Order. After all, God is going to "force" everyone to behave forever and ever, don't you know?
Maybe it's senility at this point rather than you just making up arguments. At least try to create some distance between posts where you open the issue, I respond, then you blame me for what you opened.
Making up arguments? My Lord, where in the world have you been? Being forced or not is the logical fallacy you and your ilk reduce salvation to, and have done, for months on end. Blame shifting galore in your post. It is you free willers who claim God is forcing people if the order of salvation does not happen the way you imagine it to. It is free willers who say God is an unjust tyrant if He acts unilaterally, essentially forcing His will on people, oh, yes, kidnapping them against their free will even! Free willers who claim someone was forced if they acknowledge they were drawn with loving kindness. A free willer who asked me why God forced me to believe. A free willer who claimed I said nobody had a choice when I never, ever, said any such thing. Free willers cannot deal with what Scripture says plain and simple, and then they consistently misrepresent what others say on the matter. There seems to be a huge deficit, so much lack of understanding among you Pelagians, it is shocking, really. Whether or not you are senile I do not know, but you sure as heck cannot read a room. You seem incapable of detecting tongue in cheek, also. Perhaps paying attention to the smilie faces used in a post will give you essential clues.
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2 Corinthians 4:5-7 ~ We do not proclaim ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, and ourselves
as your servants for Jesus’ sake. For God, who said, “Let light shine out of darkness,” made His light shine in our hearts to give us the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. Now we have this treasure in jars of clay to show that this surpassingly great power is from God and not from us.
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It's because the refuse to see themselves for what they are: filthy, vile, self-deceived, wicked, dead sinners who are helpless and without hope. And they think that their god Volition is so powerful that he can change people's nature. I fear several here are going to be in for a very rude awakening on the last day unless God raises them from the dead.
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