Understanding God’s election

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Jul 3, 2015
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I love reading your posts, sister; for your passion and love for the Lord shines through every one of them! (y)

John 3 verse 3, John 1 verse 13, James 1 verse 18, Romans 8 verse 9b, 1 Peter 2 verse 9 ~ Jesus replied, “Truly, truly, I tell you, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again.” Born not of blood, nor of the desire or will of man, but born of God. He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we would be a kind of firstfruits of His creation. If anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he does not belong to Christ. You are chosen to proclaim the virtues of Him Who called you out of darkness into His marvelous light. My soul will exult in my God, for He has clothed me with garments of salvation, and wrapped me in a robe of righteousness. Plus Isaiah 61 verse 10
 

Rufus

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2024
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Besides argument from silence, back to the basics of context again, son. It's simply not what he's talking about. It's like asking why Moses didn't give any credit to man's volition in Gen1.

If you want to get to the Christian's volition in this context, then go to verses like 3:18, 21 where Paul is issuing commands to choose to reject or obey.



Because just as there is no seed and no water and no soil and all the ways God has designed them to work together, Paul knows that apart from God there is no Gospel with its inherent power and there is no teaching and explaining in words provided by God and there is thus no growth apart from God.

But Paul is also speaking of credit - negative or positive - for God's fellow-workers in 3:8 on.

Paul also knows that apart from God's grace, he has no ministry let alone no life.


You manufacture turmoil.
Oh...you mean the passage wherein Paul warns the Corinthians to quit deceiving themselves and boasting about men -- just like Paul didn't boast about man's ability to grow himself earlier in the passage? You should pay closer attention to Paul and quit boasting about how smart and spiritual savvy some sinners are compared to others.

And God's fellow-workers will receive "credit" (rewards) not because they were anything in and of themselves but because they obeyed God's call and were faithful servants.

When Paul said said that he and his fellow workers weren't anything -- but ONLY God who gives the increase -- I'm mindful of something else Paul told the church in Rome:

Rom 9:15-16
15 For he says to Moses,


"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion."

16 It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy

NIV

You see...man can plant, sow, water, cultivate the land, etc. 'till the cows come home; but if it doesn't please God to have the ground grow anything -- then guess what!? Where does that leave all the workers of the land? It seems to me that the one who totally controls the forces and elements of nature is the one really in charge -- not your so-called smarter sinners v. the dumber ones. At the end of the day, it's all on God who has mercy and compassion on whom he WANTS to have. Did the Holy Spirit in Acts 16 desire to have mercy on the Asians?

Your secular humanism has an aroma of death to it.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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John 15 verse 5c; Philippians 2 verse 13 Apart from Me you can do nothing. For it is God who works in you to will and to act on behalf of His good purpose.
 
Jul 3, 2015
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1 Corinthians 3 verses 6-7 ~ I planted the seed and Apollos watered it, but God made it grow. So neither he who plants nor he who waters is anything, but only God Who makes things grow.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
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I worked things out a long time ago, madam. Unlike you, I know God saves all men [w/o distinction] in this world. If Christ actually and truly and really atoned for the sins of all men w/o exception (as opposed to potentially atoning), then this must mean that he also redeemed all men in the world w/o exception, right? Yet, the same apostle wrote elsewhere:

Rev 5:9
9 And they sang a new song:


"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,

and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
NIV


Does your translation read that God redeemed/purchased ALL men for God, or each and every person for God, or all men w/o exception for God? Or does the passage say that the Lamb potentially purchased all men for God?

And again,

Rev 7:9
9 After this I looked and there before me was a great multitude that no one could count, from every nation, tribe, people and language, standing before the throne and in front of the Lamb. They were wearing white robes and were holding palm branches in their hands.
NIV


Or does the above passage say that "before me was a multitude consisting of everyone in the world..."?

Eisegesis is a bear because you're adding to scripture what God did not put into it! You see the term "world" or "whole world" -- and then you have this knee jerk reaction that triggers an interpretation of "each and every person w/o exception", as being the only viable way of understanding the passage.

Also, since God is a covenant God in that he has established the medium of covenants to form the basis for Him having a personal, saving, redemptive relationship with his chosen people, then please point me to the covenant that God made with all men w/o exception. Where is this covenant that God universally made with all men? What are this covenant's conditions? Don't you know that God's covenant of love is made only with his elect (Deut 7:9-12; Dan 9:4, etc.). When Christ instituted the New Covenant at the Last Supper, did he institute that covenant with the entire world or with his chosen people?
I'd have to want to go where you're trying to lead me with all those leading questions so you must suppose that doesn't want me to go there, right?
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
62,967
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Rev 5:9
9 And they sang a new song:


"You are worthy to take the scroll
and to open its seals,
because you were slain,

and with your blood you purchased men for God
from every tribe and language and people and nation.
NIV
Snippets of this song have been playing in my mind for a few days now...


Chris Tomlin - Is He Worthy? (Live)