Understanding God’s election

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#961
Nov 20, 2018
23,801
8,618
113
#961
rogerg said:
To be honest, brightframe52, for me to expound my arguments to counter your post (in a friendly, non-argumentative manner of course), for the sake of the discussion, I would have to place myself in the position of sitting as judge over God to infer, assess, and project His motives as they pertained to causing the sin of Adam and Eve, and I just do not feel comfortable in doing so. So, I'll have to pass on this particular discussion. I will however continue to ponder the question for it is an interesting one, and should I find anything in scripture that changes my opinion or sheds more light on the subject, I'll get back to you and we can reengage/reevaluate then.
Click to expand...
There you go again:

"and project His motives as they pertained to ***causing*** the sin of Adam and Eve"

You see, when you Calvinites remove Gods true life free will out of the life equation, all of the evil becomes Gods fault.
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#962
Jul 13, 2021
3,889
649
113
#962
cv5 said:
@rogerg said:
"Except they weren't free from the purpose of God that they sin"

And there you go. You have made an unequivocally clear unambiguous admission of your core belief:

That Holy God is the author, planner and originator of sin and evil.
Which is of course the FALSE ACCUSATION OF SATAN.
Click to expand...
This is what happens when you come into the middle of a conversation without following or understanding what it is about. I was replying that I did NOT want to become involved in such a discussion - one on that subject - I was not saying that such a thing it is my belief.
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#963
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#963
Magenta said:
That would mean that everything with the breath of life would have to be eating from the tree of Life to sustain their physical existence ... and that doesn't make any sense in the first place because Adam and Eve were expelled from the garden and they continued to live physically for hundreds and hundreds of years afterwards.
Click to expand...
You entitled to believe that, but I believe only man as made in the Image of God. Now if they would not have ate they would not have died even after hundreds and hundreds years afterwards, even after thousand of years afterwards, they would not have died, period
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#964
Jul 13, 2021
3,889
649
113
#964
cv5 said:
There you go again:

"and project His motives as they pertained to ***causing*** the sin of Adam and Eve"

You see, when you Calvinites remove Gods true life free will out of the life equation, all of the evil becomes Gods fault.
Click to expand...
Read post 941
 
B

brightfame52

Well-known member
#965
Nov 21, 2020
6,470
591
113
#965
Cameron143 said:
There's another part of the problem. You made a false statement about what everyone's motivation was. You changed the subject with your question. So I stayed on topic and addressed your false statement a second time and you throw shade. Just come clean. Your blanket statement is 7false. Everyone who believes in irresistible grace does not believe this because they are trying to assuage guilt. In fact, I've never heard anyone give that explanation as the cause of their belief. And I know alot of people who hold the belief. You simply cannot own up to the fact that you ascribed to others ao motivation that isn't theirs. Perhaps you did that to assuage your own guilt.
Try to stay on topic. The topic is motivation, not the definition of grace.
Click to expand...
Okay Roger !
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#966
Nov 20, 2018
23,801
8,618
113
#966
brightfame52 said:
You entitled to believe that, but I believe only man as made in the Image of God. Now if they would not have ate they would not have died even after hundreds and hundreds years afterwards, even after thousand of years afterwards, they would not have died, period
Click to expand...
And the hits just keep on coming....

@brightfame52 said:

"So Adam had to conform to Gods set purpose"
 
C

ChristRoseFromTheDead

Well-known member
#970
Nov 1, 2024
1,211
384
83
#970
Here's a beautiful picture of grace. Ruth was a Moabite who married Boaz of the tribe of Judah. The law says:

An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: Deuteronomy 23:3​
​
Yet Ruth became the ancestor of both David and Christ
 
R

rogerg

Well-known member
#971
Jul 13, 2021
3,889
649
113
#971
cv5 said:
Oh that is your belief alright. Denials will only compound your guilt at this point.
Click to expand...
No, that is not my belief, nor has it ever been. That was not the point of my post - it was exactly the opposite, so stop saying that.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#972
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
83
#972
cv5 said:
@rogerg said:
"Except they weren't free from the purpose of God that they sin"

And there you go. You have made an unequivocally clear unambiguous admission of your core belief:

That Holy God is the author, planner and originator of sin and evil.
Which is of course the FALSE ACCUSATION OF SATAN.
Click to expand...
God also purposed the murder of his only begotten Son. Does that make him the "author, planner and originator of sin and evil"?
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#973
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
83
#973
Genez said:
They lived that long because of the phenomenal DNA God initially created into the first man.

The Tree of Life would have kept Adam's DNA from deteriorating any further,
and Adam would have remained in the same fallen state forever.

The Tree of Life brings perpetual, unchanging, physical life.
That was why God needed to remove the tree after Adam fell.
Click to expand...
Really? Do you have chapter and verse for your theory? My bible tells me that God removed Adam from the Tree of Life!

Make stuff up much? :rolleyes:
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#974
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
83
#974
Blade said:
Some things said here are speculation and is your personal view not what's written. For God so loved the world. He didn't come to condemn the world but to save it. Who so ever. OT Everyone/anyone that calls on the name of the lord shall be saved. OT Choose this day whom you shall serve. Man has a free choice and can choose life or death. Christ tells some go and sin no more. They were no believer yet had the right the choose to sin or not. No offense but your blindly taking Rom 9 23 out of context. A day is coming when sheep and goats are spilt and there are some standing there that knew they were His elect. Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall.

Again the command for us to go in to all the world to every man every creature. He died already for the sin of the world and as of this moment no books have been open. He died for all. The sweet holy Spirit convicts the "world" of sin that sin is that they do not know Him. See I'm not here to debate this. What is so wonderful is all those standing before Him. They were just those that came out of the great tribulation. A number no man could number. Some have no problem talking about people that a GOD created. Yeah its His creation. So lets give away what was freely given to us.
Click to expand...
But without God's effectual grace, no one would call on him because the world hates God and his Christ.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#975
Nov 20, 2018
23,801
8,618
113
#975
Rufus said:
God also purposed the murder of his only begotten Son. Does that make him the "author, planner and originator of sin and evil"?
Click to expand...
Huh? Murder?

No. God cannot be murdered. He cannot be killed.
The ONLY WAY Jesus could die is for Him to give up His own life....

Jhn 10:17
Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I may take it again.
Jhn 10:18
No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received from my Father.
 
cv5

cv5

Well-known member
#977
Nov 20, 2018
23,801
8,618
113
#977
Rufus said:
Really? Do you have chapter and verse for your theory? My bible tells me that God removed Adam from the Tree of Life!

Make stuff up much? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...
Adam had access to the tree of life after the fall for a period of time. He by brutal sheer FREE will refused to eat of it (the temptation must have been immense) and prevented the Woman from eating as well.

God set cherubim to guard the tree of life only AFTER THE TRIAL.
 
R

Rufus

Well-known member
#979
Feb 17, 2024
3,059
415
83
#979
cv5 said:
And the hits just keep on coming....

@brightfame52 said:

"So Adam had to conform to Gods set purpose"
Click to expand...
If Adam had not, then he would have been more powerful than God. God most assuredly "decreed" the Fall -- just as he decreed all the wicked things that happened to his beloved Son; yet, in both cases God did not become the author of sin or force anyone to sin. A&E, Just like Jesus' enemies, freely chose what they wanted to do. Judas, for example, blamed neither Satan who possessed him before betraying Jesus, nor did he blame God who decreed everything that happened. Judas bore his own personal guilt.
 
Cameron143

Cameron143

Well-known member
#980
Mar 1, 2022
20,080
6,883
113
62
#980
cv5 said:
Adam had access to the tree of life after the fall for a period of time. He by brutal sheer FREE will refused to eat of it (the temptation must have been immense) and prevented the Woman from eating as well.

God set cherubim to guard the tree of life only AFTER THE TRIAL.
Click to expand...
I'd like to read chapter and verse also.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.