Tithing. What are Christians suppose to do?

[Elihoenai]

Riddle me this, Batman: why would you think that tithing, which was never commanded prior to Moses, still be required of Christians, but circumcision, which was commanded prior to Moses, not be required of Christians? Further, if it is so important, why was tithing not mentioned in Acts 15?

John 8:39 King James Version (KJV)

39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.


Matthew 23:23 King James Version (KJV)

23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.



Circumcision of the Flesh and Tithing are requirements for Followers of Messiah/Christ, as instructed by Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. We must do the works of Abraham and Abraham circumcised himself, his sons and his household. Abraham Tithed.


Prevalence of circumcision

"The prevalence of circumcision is the percentage of males in a given population who have been circumcised. The rates vary widely by country, from virtually 0% in Honduras and Japan, to 20.7% in the United Kingdom,[1] to 7% in Spain, to 45% in South Africa, to 75% in the United States,[2][3][4] to over 90% in Israel and many Muslim-majority countries.[2][5][6] In 2010, the World Health Organization (WHO) estimated 30% of adult males worldwide (aged 15+) are circumcised, with about two-thirds of those being Muslims...."


"...United States

During the 2000s, the prevalence of circumcision in men aged 14–59 differed by race: 91 percent of white men, 76 percent of black men, and 44 percent of Hispanic men were circumcised, according to data in Mayo Clinic Proceedings....."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prevalence_of_circumcision

 

[Elihoenai]

The way I'm reading it is you set aside your tithe and eat it yourself (and share some with the Levite) for two years. Then for the whole third year all your tithe is given away and is used to feed the Levite, the alien, the orphan, and the widow. You don't eat any of it in the third year. That year it's all put in storage to take care of the needy.

Leviticus 27:30-32 King James Version (KJV)

30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the Lord's: it is holy unto the Lord.

31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

32 And concerning the tithe of the herd, or of the flock, even of whatsoever passeth under the rod, the tenth shall be holy unto the Lord.



Yes, the Tither is instructed to consume his Tithe and it can be turned into Money. The Money is than exchanged for Goods. Indirectly, Money is Goods and Services.

The Tithe is Holy to Elohim/God! We must go beyond a Tithe/Tenth and add more to it.

 

[Elihoenai]

Those in the ministry.

Jeremiah 23:1 King James Version (KJV)

23 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith the Lord.


We have never seen or heard Real Ministers proclaiming the Real Ministry.

 

[Dino246]

John 8:39 King James Version (KJV) 39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.

Matthew 23:23 King James Version (KJV) 23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

You're wrong, and even in your error, you overlooked a contradiction. Jesus told them that if they were children of Abraham, they would do his works. Then you mention that they tithed; if they actually did the works of Abraham, they would not tithe regularly, because Abraham did not tithe regularly.

Circumcision of the Flesh and Tithing are requirements for Followers of Messiah/Christ, as instructed by Yeshua Messiah/Jesus Christ. We must do the works of Abraham and Abraham circumcised himself, his sons and his household. Abraham Tithed.

You're inventing things. I'll go with what Scripture actually says on this matter. Your position is baseless and your conclusion is wrong.

 

[FlyingDove]

Galatians 3:1 King James Version (KJV)

3 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?


Yes, I mean consistent with the Law of Moses. Being Lawful, I choose to be a Foolish Galatian! Paul is an inspired Servant of Elohim/God.

The Book of Galatians is an aggressive attack against, works of the law doctrine. And an ongoing promotion of the gospel of by grace thru faith.

Personally I find taking one verse COMPLETELY out of context. And then trying to build a by works of the law doctrine, is, PURPOSTUOUS!

Council At Jerusalem, Gentiles & The Law of Moses

Acts 15:
5 Some Pharisees rose up, saying, "it is needful to circumcise Gentiles & command them" ""to keep the law of Moses""
(NOTE: Law promoting Pharisees make the FASLSE claim that Gentiles believers must keep the law of Moses. I.E. Circumcision, tithe etc)

6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
(NOTE: The apostles & elders debate their FALSE claim)

7 Peter rose up, & said, Men & brethren, a good while ago God made choice "that Gentiles" by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel & believe
(NOTE: Peter say's, God decided, Gentiles should hear the gospel & believe)

8 God, who knows the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Spirit, even as he did us
(NOTE: Peter whom had 1st hand knowledge/experience say's: God gave Gentiles, the Holy Spirit. See Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. AS THEY HEARD! NO CIRCUMCISION-TITHE-OR ANY OTHER MOSAIC LAW REQUIREMENTS. They received the Ruach HaKodesh!

9 "He put no difference between us & the Gentiles" ""purifying their hearts by faith""
(NOTE: Gentiles are purified by faith, NOT thru keeping Mosaic law requirements)

10 Why now, tempt ye God, to put a yoke around the neck of these believing Gentiles
(NOTE: Peter tells these law promoting Pharisees DON'T put a yoke = LAW REQUIREMENTS onto these Gentile believers)

11 We believe that thru the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they
(NOTE: Peter say's Gentiles are saved By Grace thru Faith. NOT by following Mosaic law requirements)

12 Barnabas & Paul, declared what miracles & wonders God had done among the Gentiles by them

13 James said, Men & brethren, hearken unto me

14 Peter declared how God at the 1st did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name

15 The words of the prophets agree; as it is written (Amos 9:11-12)

16 I will return & will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down

17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord & "all the Gentiles" whom call upon my name, saith the Lord

18 God knows all his works from the beginning of the world

19 James says, that ""we trouble not them, among the Gentiles"" who have turned to God

20 We write to them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, from fornication, from things strangled & from blood
(NOTE: Find here the only requirements the Apostles give to Gentile Believers)

22 Then pleased it the apostles & elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul & Barnabas

23 They wrote letters by them after this manner; We apostles, elders & brethren send greeting to the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch & elsewhere
(NOTE: The Apostles send letters to ALL the Churches. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION To the NEXT VS OF SCRIPTURE)

24 Certain men which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised & keep the law: "to whom we gave no such commandment"
(NOTE: The Apostles proclaim to ALL the Churches. These Law promoting Pharisees LIED!. We NEVER said/commanded that Gentile believers must be circumcised & keep the law of Moses)

 

[StrugglingTilMyReward]

I might be kicking a hornets nest, but I would like to know what some people’s opinions on the matter are. Are we called to give a tenth as the Israelites were, or do we give according what’s in our heart? Please let me know. I look forward to a spirited(And friendly) discussion.

I've wondered about this myself....and I do personally believe that 10% is a good benchmark, its something I use as a guideline but I don't keep a strict accounting. I know the figure based on my annual income, but I personally work off of my net figure, not my gross income. I know some churches preach that it is supposed to be on gross income though.

I know that my annual figure is X and I measure how I did at that the end of the year when I file my taxes....I know this doesn't include all my giving though. Last week a snowstorm resulted in my home church cancelling worship, so I went to another church and I did contribute but I won't get a tax receipt. Likewise there I drop a few bucks into the Sally Ann kettles.

 

[Guojing]

19 James says, that ""we trouble not them, among the Gentiles"" who have turned to God

20 We write to them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, from fornication, from things strangled & from blood
(NOTE: Find here the only requirements the Apostles give to Gentile Believers)

22 Then pleased it the apostles & elders, with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul & Barnabas

23 They wrote letters by them after this manner; We apostles, elders & brethren send greeting to the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch & elsewhere
(NOTE: The Apostles send letters to ALL the Churches. PAY CLOSE ATTENTION To the NEXT VS OF SCRIPTURE)

24 Certain men which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised & keep the law: "to whom we gave no such commandment"
(NOTE: The Apostles proclaim to ALL the Churches. These Law promoting Pharisees LIED!. We NEVER said/commanded that Gentile believers must be circumcised & keep the law of Moses)

What do you think about those Jews who believed, according to James? Do they still keep the Law of Moses and circumcised their children?

 

[Guojing]

I've wondered about this myself....and I do personally believe that 10% is a good benchmark, its something I use as a guideline but I don't keep a strict accounting. I know the figure based on my annual income, but I personally work off of my net figure, not my gross income. I know some churches preach that it is supposed to be on gross income though.

I know that my annual figure is X and I measure how I did at that the end of the year when I file my taxes....I know this doesn't include all my giving though. Last week a snowstorm resulted in my home church cancelling worship, so I went to another church and I did contribute but I won't get a tax receipt. Likewise there I drop a few bucks into the Sally Ann kettles.

Give cheerfully is the key. If you feel that giving 10% based on your gross will cause you to be resentful but based on your net would cause you to smile when you give, the latter is better.

 

[Dino246]

The Tithe is Holy to Elohim/God!

Under the Law, yes. Christians aren't under the Law.

We must go beyond a Tithe/Tenth and add more to it.

Where is that in Scripture?

 

[FlyingDove]

What do you think about those Jews who believed, according to James? Do they still keep the Law of Moses and circumcised their children?

James is one of the Church elders (vs 13) at the Council At Jerusalem. So, what do you think?

 

[Guojing]

James is one of the Church elders (vs 13) at the Council At Jerusalem. So, what do you think?

My answer is no. Jews who believed still have to follow the law of Moses

What about you?

 

[FlyingDove]

My answer is no. Jews who believed still have to follow the law of Moses

What about you?

There were both Jewish & Gentile believers in the Galatian Churches. So, I answered that question in post #225.

 

[Guojing]

There were both Jewish & Gentile believers in the Galatian Churches. So, I answered that question in post #225.

I assume that means a yes then

How would you understand acts 21:20-25 then?

Why did James and the elders wanted Paul to follow the law, if he thinks Jews who believed are also dead to the law?

 

[Guojing]

There were both Jewish & Gentile believers in the Galatian Churches. So, I answered that question in post #225.

Also How do you conclude that Paul was also speaking to Jews in Galatians? wouldn't he be breaking the agreement he made with peter James and John that he is to preach only to the gentiles in Galatians 2?

 

[FlyingDove]

I assume that means a yes then

How would you understand acts 21:20-25 then?

Why did James and the elders wanted Paul to follow the law, if he thinks Jews who believed are also dead to the law?

Acts 21 answer
False reports were creating problems for Paul among the Jewish believers at Jerusalem. Paul doesn't tell Jews they shouldn't/can't keep Law of Moses. Jewish believers were at liberty to continue the customs, including circumcision.

Lifestyles surrounding the Law: YES. Salvation by keeping the Law: NO. His message to Gentile believers was these practices were Jewish heritage & not required for Gentile believers to obey.

Additional info:
To the Jews, I became as a Jew" 1 Corinthians 9:20.

Paul's message throughout his Epistles, was keeping Mosaic law wasn't required by either group for salvation.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

To your other question as to how do I conclude that Paul was also speaking to Christian Jews in Galatia? How can you conclude that Paul was the only Jew in Galatia that understood keeping Mosaic law was no longer required?

 

[FlyingDove]

Why did James and the elders wanted Paul to follow the law, if he thinks Jews who believed are also dead to the law?

2 Cor 11:
24 Of the Jews five times received I forty stripes save one.

25 Thrice was I beaten with rods, once was I stoned, thrice I suffered shipwreck, a night and a day I have been in the deep;

26 In journeyings often, in perils of waters, in perils of robbers, in perils by mine own countrymen, in perils by the heathen, in perils in the city, in perils in the wilderness, in perils in the sea, in perils among false brethren;

James goal seems to be trying to avert these types of problems for Paul.

 

[Guojing]

Acts 21 answer
False reports were creating problems for Paul among the Jewish believers at Jerusalem. Paul doesn't tell Jews they shouldn't/can't keep Law of Moses. Jewish believers were at liberty to continue the customs, including circumcision.

Lifestyles surrounding the Law: YES. Salvation by keeping the Law: NO. His message to Gentile believers was these practices were Jewish heritage & not required for Gentile believers to obey.

Additional info:
To the Jews, I became as a Jew" 1 Corinthians 9:20.

Paul's message throughout his Epistles, was keeping Mosaic law wasn't required by either group for salvation.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

Rom 2:29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Rom 3:30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith.

Gal 5:6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.

Gal 6:15 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision, but a new creature.

To your other question as to how do I conclude that Paul was also speaking to Christian Jews in Galatia? How can you conclude that Paul was the only Jew in Galatia that understood keeping Mosaic law was no longer required?

Understand Acts 15, Galatians 2 and Acts 21:20-25 holistically:

Paul was revealed mysteries of the Gospel of Grace that the ascended Christ revealed to him (Galatians 1), one of them is that the Law of Moses have passed for all believers.

He preached to Gentiles, who believed, and that cause the Jewish believers to doubt that Gentiles are saved because they did not keep the Law of Moses (Acts 15:1)

The council was called, and James made the final judgement that Gentiles do not need to keep the Law of Moses to be saved.
NOTHING was mentioned about James also saying that the Jews are also not to keep the Law of Moses. (Acts 15)

Thus, Gentiles are saved by the gospel of the uncircumcision, which did not include the Law. Paul and Barnabas are given exclusive guardianship over them. (Galatians 2)

Peter James and John were given exclusive guardianship over the Jews who believe according to the gospel of the circumcision, which includes obedience to the Law of Moses. (Galatians 2)

Paul preach strongly among the Gentiles that they are dead to the Law. Some Jews overheard that preaching and thought that they were also exempted, so some of them stop following the Law of Moses too. (Acts 21)

James and the elders recognized that the gospel of the uncircumcision was not meant for the Jews, recommend to Paul to also follow the Law. (Acts 21).

Paul agreed, as you have stated even though he himself know that the Law of Moses have passed, because he wanted to convince Jews too.

 

[Judges1318]

31 And if a man will at all redeem ought of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

Let's see...
1/5 of 1/10 =
Be right back. Gotta change my batteries in my calculator...

 

[bud62]

Abarham Was Not a Jew , when he tithed , & In Malachi HE didn't say will the Jews rob GOD .HE said will A man rob GOD . This includes All of US . Not just the Jews. Tithe is to get the word to the world . Witch is FOOD for us all ,The Saved & the Lost to bring. We say that GOD gives us more back , then we give. But if we believe that HE gives us more back & really believe it , I believe That we would be giving More then ten % . our FAITH is were the problems ARE .GOD BLESS as HE sees fit .

 

[posthuman]

In Acts 21 Paul says he is ready be bound and handed over to death upon reaching Jerusalem.
When he gets there some Jews bring up the same persecution and false accusations against him, that he is teaching things contrary to the Law, and urge him to bind himself with a voluntary free-will uncommanded extra-legal oath.
Like a Lamb meekly led to slaughter he participates in the bondage of the voluntary oath. And he is indeed taken captive.

This is not Paul keeping the sacrifices of the law if Moses. This is Paul being bound and handed over to be imprisoned and ultimately martyred.

Acts 21:10-11
And as we tarried [there] many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus. And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver [him] into the hands of the Gentiles.

The Jews certainly didn't think Paul taught one gospel to Gentiles and a different one to Jews

Acts 21:27-28
And when the seven days were almost ended, the Jews which were of Asia, when they saw him in the temple, stirred up all the people, and laid hands on him, Crying out, Men of Israel, help: This is the man, that teacheth all [men] every where against the people, and the law, and this place: and further brought Greeks also into the temple, and hath polluted this holy place.

They understood that He preached the same gospel to all, everywhere