the Sabbath
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It would be helpful if you would provide scripture to support your disagreement with the Text that was presented.
the Sabbath - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
the Sabbath - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
the Sabbath - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
the Sabbath - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
the Sabbath - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
the Sabbath - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
the Sabbath - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
the Sabbath - Christian Chat Rooms & Forums
Cute photo. 
Most of the scripture reads very plainly. The parts of scripture that doesn't the interpretation is always found in the scriptures. The issue I see, in my opinion, is when we don't believe the plain scriptures in lieu of personal interpretations or trying to make our doctrine fit the scriptures. Its not like keeping the Sabbath day holy is convenient for me. Would I like to do what most people do on the Sabbath which I also did for many years, whatever I wanted. But after careful study of the scriptures and not one verse that says the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated and we are to make our bodies a living sacrifice to God. Rom 12:1 we are made in the image of God to serve God and follow Him. Jesus kept the Sabbath, God kept the Sabbath and all His faithful followers, and the apostles did. While it might not be popular in modern times, it is one of God's written and spoken commandments and He said keeping is not burdensome, but they are for our own good. 1 John 5:3 He knows what's best for us and we need His blessing Isa 56:1-6 and sanctification Eze 20:12 , He says He does not change.
Most of the scripture reads very plainly. The parts of scripture that doesn't the interpretation is always found in the scriptures. The issue I see, in my opinion, is when we don't believe the plain scriptures in lieu of personal interpretations or trying to make our doctrine fit the scriptures. Its not like keeping the Sabbath day holy is convenient for me. Would I like to do what most people do on the Sabbath which I also did for many years, whatever I wanted. But after careful study of the scriptures and not one verse that says the Sabbath commandment has been abrogated and we are to make our bodies a living sacrifice to God. Rom 12:1 we are made in the image of God to serve God and follow Him. Jesus kept the Sabbath, God kept the Sabbath and all His faithful followers, and the apostles did. While it might not be popular in modern times, it is one of God's written and spoken commandments and He said keeping is not burdensome, but they are for our own good. 1 John 5:3 He knows what's best for us and we need His blessing Isa 56:1-6 and sanctification Eze 20:12 , He says He does not change.
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No, the old covenant includes the ten commandments. It is not only those ten.
The NC has the moral laws of the OC but is vastly different and was built on better promises and does not contain the faults and problems the old cov had.
The old covenant is described as dead and rotted. That is something to be celebrated.
This will probably fall on deaf ears, but hopefully someone will find this helpful.
Hebrews 4 is a difficult passage to understand and not one that can be read lightly, or believed by what some pastor says because they do not keep the Sabbath commandment. It is actually teaching the opposite of what most people teach.
God's covenant was ratified at the death of Christ. Nothing could be added or changed to His covenant. The Sabbath rest- was still kept according to the commandment Luke 23:56 so didn't change when Hebrews was written decades later.
There are two rests being discussed not one - the rest we enter in Christ through faith and the Sabbath rest, which is according to the commandment that God said was on the seventh day Exo 20:10
To see these two rests, it is shown explicitly in verse 10 which should help with the other verses and one must understand the story of Joshua before entering into Canaan and what David wrote in Psa 95:7-11 which is a quote verbatim.
Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
To enter in Christ rest one ALSO ceases from his works as God did from His.
When did God cease from His works? This very passage tells us
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
It truly cannot be made any plainer- to enter His rest one ALSO rests on the seventh day just as God did, for our example.
This passage is bringing us to Mt Sinai when God spoke of the seventh day in this way. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. These are God's spoken and written work that cannot be edited in any way, because no one is above God.
Which is why v9 says
Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
The rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping
Strong's Concordance
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
The passage goes on to warn us of following the same disobedience as some of the Israelites who many did not enter their rest into the promise land Heb 4:6, 11 and many also defiled the Sabbath Eze 20:21 Ezo 20:13 we should not follow that same path of disobedience so we can enter into our promise land which is heaven.
The author of Hebrews is not changing God's Sabbath commandment. No one can reverse God's blessing but God Num 23:20 and God said He would not Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18 because man needs God's sanctification Eze 20:12 and so we know we are worshipping the God of Creation Eze 20:20 Exo 20:11 the One True God, the only God who can create heaven and earth and the Sabbath is connected to God and to Creation, which is why the devil hates the Sabbath so much and has tried to deceive so many, just as we were told Dan 7:25.
Hebrews 4 is a difficult passage to understand and not one that can be read lightly, or believed by what some pastor says because they do not keep the Sabbath commandment. It is actually teaching the opposite of what most people teach.
God's covenant was ratified at the death of Christ. Nothing could be added or changed to His covenant. The Sabbath rest- was still kept according to the commandment Luke 23:56 so didn't change when Hebrews was written decades later.
There are two rests being discussed not one - the rest we enter in Christ through faith and the Sabbath rest, which is according to the commandment that God said was on the seventh day Exo 20:10
To see these two rests, it is shown explicitly in verse 10 which should help with the other verses and one must understand the story of Joshua before entering into Canaan and what David wrote in Psa 95:7-11 which is a quote verbatim.
Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.
To enter in Christ rest one ALSO ceases from his works as God did from His.
When did God cease from His works? This very passage tells us
Heb 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;
It truly cannot be made any plainer- to enter His rest one ALSO rests on the seventh day just as God did, for our example.
This passage is bringing us to Mt Sinai when God spoke of the seventh day in this way. Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy. The seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord thy God. These are God's spoken and written work that cannot be edited in any way, because no one is above God.
Which is why v9 says
Heb 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;
The rest in this verse literally translates into Sabbath-keeping
Strong's Concordance
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Definition: a sabbath rest
Usage: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
The passage goes on to warn us of following the same disobedience as some of the Israelites who many did not enter their rest into the promise land Heb 4:6, 11 and many also defiled the Sabbath Eze 20:21 Ezo 20:13 we should not follow that same path of disobedience so we can enter into our promise land which is heaven.
The author of Hebrews is not changing God's Sabbath commandment. No one can reverse God's blessing but God Num 23:20 and God said He would not Psa 89:34 Mat 5:18 because man needs God's sanctification Eze 20:12 and so we know we are worshipping the God of Creation Eze 20:20 Exo 20:11 the One True God, the only God who can create heaven and earth and the Sabbath is connected to God and to Creation, which is why the devil hates the Sabbath so much and has tried to deceive so many, just as we were told Dan 7:25.
I have an old book from the late 1800’s called “The Gospel of The Redman.” It was written by an anthropologist from England who interviewed many older Native Americans from various tribes. He wanted to understand their view of God, their religion. One old Indian related a story of when he encountered a Missionary Pastor.
The pastor stopped the old Indian as he drove his horse-drawn wagon through town. The Preacher berated the old man and told him that this was the Lord’s Day, and that he should not be doing any work, but instead should be worshipping God on this day. The old Indian thought for a moment, then replied. “Oh, me see. You worship God on this day, me worship God every day.”
The pastor stopped the old Indian as he drove his horse-drawn wagon through town. The Preacher berated the old man and told him that this was the Lord’s Day, and that he should not be doing any work, but instead should be worshipping God on this day. The old Indian thought for a moment, then replied. “Oh, me see. You worship God on this day, me worship God every day.”
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Do we worship God by breaking His commandments? Not according to Jesus Mat 15:3-14
We should worship God 365 24/7 but that also means keeping His commandments, His version.
We should worship God 365 24/7 but that also means keeping His commandments, His version.
God's grace allows us to worship other gods, or vain His holy name, or bow to false idols, break His holy Sabbath day, covet. steal and break the least of these commandments?
Sorry you seem to have some misunderstandings of God's grace, it is not so we can continue in sin that path leads one in the wrong direction Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
We receive God's grace when we have a sorry heart for sinning and breaking His law. When we go to Him and repent and ask for His forgiveness and ask for His help in forsaking our sins Pro 28:13 1 John 1:9 and when He forgives us that is receiving His grace but what does Jesus do when He forgives- He says GO AND SIN NO MORE- He puts us right back under the law. If you love Me, Keep My commandments John 14:15 Exo 20:6
Sorry you seem to have some misunderstandings of God's grace, it is not so we can continue in sin that path leads one in the wrong direction Rom 6:16 Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness?
Romans 6:1 What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? 2 Certainly not! How shall we who died to sin live any longer in it? 3 Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death? 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
We receive God's grace when we have a sorry heart for sinning and breaking His law. When we go to Him and repent and ask for His forgiveness and ask for His help in forsaking our sins Pro 28:13 1 John 1:9 and when He forgives us that is receiving His grace but what does Jesus do when He forgives- He says GO AND SIN NO MORE- He puts us right back under the law. If you love Me, Keep My commandments John 14:15 Exo 20:6
I am saying that those in Christ should not be living in perpetual sin. Sin should be painful to us by the conviction of the Holy Spirit if we have not harden our heart to what rebellion and sin is Heb 3:7-8 and for what it did to Jesus. We all sin, and when we do, we need to come to Christ immediately to repent and ask for His help in overcoming. While we can't obey on our own, we can through the power of Jesus Christ John 14:15-18
What is dangerous is not even allowing God to be God to define His holy and righteous law, which He did, He wrote it with His own finger and its perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 because God is perfect and it would be impossible for Him to write an imperfect law.
When we refuse to subject ourselves to Gods law, we are really an enmity to God
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
So its best to allow God be God and obey Him through faith and love. If we struggle with sin ask for His help, its a promise in scripture He will. If we slip and fall we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ who we can go to directly when are sorry and repent. But scripture says not only must we confess our sins, we need to forsake them Pro 28:13 and while we can't do that in our own strength we can through Jesus Phil 4:13 John 14:15-18
What is dangerous is not even allowing God to be God to define His holy and righteous law, which He did, He wrote it with His own finger and its perfect for converting the soul Psa 19:7 because God is perfect and it would be impossible for Him to write an imperfect law.
When we refuse to subject ourselves to Gods law, we are really an enmity to God
Rom 8:7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God.
So its best to allow God be God and obey Him through faith and love. If we struggle with sin ask for His help, its a promise in scripture He will. If we slip and fall we have an Advocate in Jesus Christ who we can go to directly when are sorry and repent. But scripture says not only must we confess our sins, we need to forsake them Pro 28:13 and while we can't do that in our own strength we can through Jesus Phil 4:13 John 14:15-18
I am an advocate on what Jesus says is sin, what I say means nothing
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law
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James is only quoting and contrasting from the Ten Commandments, breaking one we break them all and in doing so one becomes a transgressor of the law which is sin
Rom 7:7 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Again quoting directly from the Ten Commandments as to the law that defines sin.
Jesus quotes directly from the Ten Commandments telling us not to break or teach others to break the least of these as one would be in sin and fear of Judgement Mat 5:19-30
The Ten Commandments came in a unit of Ten Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28, not nine despite popular teachings of man forgetting the one commandment God said Remember.
Do believe profaning Christ is a sin?
1 John 3:4 Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness.
James 2:10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law
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James is only quoting and contrasting from the Ten Commandments, breaking one we break them all and in doing so one becomes a transgressor of the law which is sin
Rom 7:7 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”
Again quoting directly from the Ten Commandments as to the law that defines sin.
Jesus quotes directly from the Ten Commandments telling us not to break or teach others to break the least of these as one would be in sin and fear of Judgement Mat 5:19-30
The Ten Commandments came in a unit of Ten Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28, not nine despite popular teachings of man forgetting the one commandment God said Remember.
Do believe profaning Christ is a sin?
Again quoting directly from the Ten Commandments as to the law that defines sin. The Ten Commandments came in a unit of Ten Deut 4:13 Exo 34:28, not nine despite popular teachings of man.[/QUOTE]
I will
I appreciate your concern for sin. But pointing out how everyone who doesn’t believe as you is bound for hell, seems like a one-side sermon. I love sharing how Jesus came not for the righteous, but the sinner, in order that they may become His children. Sanctification can take some time, and not everyone learns at the same rate. I try to instill hope through repentance and prayer. I’m surely not perfect and have never met anyone that doesn’t make mistakes. Luckily God is a God of second a third, and …….., chances.
I will
I appreciate your concern for sin. But pointing out how everyone who doesn’t believe as you is bound for hell, seems like a one-side sermon. I love sharing how Jesus came not for the righteous, but the sinner, in order that they may become His children. Sanctification can take some time, and not everyone learns at the same rate. I try to instill hope through repentance and prayer. I’m surely not perfect and have never met anyone that doesn’t make mistakes. Luckily God is a God of second a third, and …….., chances.
I didn't quote "me"
There is a difference in slipping and falling and asking for God's forgiveness which I agree He is so faithful to forgive us, but another to be in complete rebellion to God's law. At least that's what the scriptures indicate Heb 8:7-8
Would you make this same argument with someone who was worshipping a golden calf as their god? According to God, there is no difference, between that and profaning the Sabbath.
Jesus in His own Words said this is Who we are profaning when we don't keep His Sabbath, which He in His own Words called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord Isa 58:13
Eze 22:26 Her priests have [a]violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
Instead of arguing against keeping the Sabbath commandment Jesus said was made for us, to bless and sanctify since man can't sanctify ourselves Isa 66:17, we need God Eze 20:12 I personally would try to look for ways to keep the Sabbath day holy from the example of Jesus and the apostles. We are given free will through.
There is a difference in slipping and falling and asking for God's forgiveness which I agree He is so faithful to forgive us, but another to be in complete rebellion to God's law. At least that's what the scriptures indicate Heb 8:7-8
Would you make this same argument with someone who was worshipping a golden calf as their god? According to God, there is no difference, between that and profaning the Sabbath.
Jesus in His own Words said this is Who we are profaning when we don't keep His Sabbath, which He in His own Words called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord Isa 58:13
Eze 22:26 Her priests have [a]violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
Instead of arguing against keeping the Sabbath commandment Jesus said was made for us, to bless and sanctify since man can't sanctify ourselves Isa 66:17, we need God Eze 20:12 I personally would try to look for ways to keep the Sabbath day holy from the example of Jesus and the apostles. We are given free will through.
There is a difference in slipping and falling and asking for God's forgiveness which I agree He is so faithful to forgive us, but another to be in complete rebellion to God's law. At least that's what the scriptures indicate Heb 8:7-8
Would you make this same argument with someone who was worshipping a golden calf as their god? According to God, there is no difference, between that and profaning the Sabbath.
Jesus in His own Words said this is Who we are profaning when we don't keep His Sabbath, which He in His own Words called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord Isa 58:13
Eze 22:26 Her priests have [a]violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
Instead of arguing against keeping the Sabbath commandment Jesus said was made for us, to bless and sanctify since man can't sanctify ourselves Isa 66:17, we need God Eze 20:12 I personally would try to look for ways to keep the Sabbath day holy from the example of Jesus and the apostles. We are given free will through.[/QUOTE]
Do you employ all the details of Sabbath Keeping that are in the OT? If not, how do you keep the Sabbath? Do you rest all day? I am fortunate that I am retired and can worship God every day.
Would you make this same argument with someone who was worshipping a golden calf as their god? According to God, there is no difference, between that and profaning the Sabbath.
Jesus in His own Words said this is Who we are profaning when we don't keep His Sabbath, which He in His own Words called it My holy day, the holy day of the Lord Isa 58:13
Eze 22:26 Her priests have [a]violated My law and profaned My holy things; they have not distinguished between the holy and unholy, nor have they made known the difference between the unclean and the clean; and they have hidden their eyes from My Sabbaths, so that I am profaned among them.
Instead of arguing against keeping the Sabbath commandment Jesus said was made for us, to bless and sanctify since man can't sanctify ourselves Isa 66:17, we need God Eze 20:12 I personally would try to look for ways to keep the Sabbath day holy from the example of Jesus and the apostles. We are given free will through.[/QUOTE]
Do you employ all the details of Sabbath Keeping that are in the OT? If not, how do you keep the Sabbath? Do you rest all day? I am fortunate that I am retired and can worship God every day.
The Sabbath is about resting from our work and keeping the Sabbath day holy. Exo 20:8 Its not about being lazy, its about having one day to cast aside all of our works and labors and focus on Christ. He gives us 6 days to do all our works and labors Exo 20:9 and only asks for one day back dedicated fully to Him. That doesn't mean we shouldn't pray daily or read the bible daily or worship Him daily, but He understands we have to work to survive and only asks for one day fully dedicated to Him on the seventh day Sabbath.
I am sure even retired people have to do housework, laundry, grocery shopping, etc. God gives us 6 days to get all of these things done so we can just focus on Him on the Sabbath.
Anway, we don't have to agree, that's okay, it all gets sorted out soon enough.
I am sure even retired people have to do housework, laundry, grocery shopping, etc. God gives us 6 days to get all of these things done so we can just focus on Him on the Sabbath.
Anway, we don't have to agree, that's okay, it all gets sorted out soon enough.
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