"The rich man And Lazarus..."
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Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
"Them" does not refer to God. Because man cannot kill the soul but they can kill the body.
"him" refers to Jesus. Jesus will destroy both body and soul in the lake of fire.
You said the unsaved bodies will be burned up and only the unsaved souls will be tormented in the lake of fire
According to Jesus, you are wrong.
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
"Them" does not refer to God. Because man cannot kill the soul but they can kill the body.
"him" refers to Jesus. Jesus will destroy both body and soul in the lake of fire.
You said the unsaved bodies will be burned up and only the unsaved souls will be tormented in the lake of fire
According to Jesus, you are wrong.
FreeGrace2 said:
You want to charge me with a mistake??!!
Right. Your mistake is claiming that dead souls will be tormented in the LOF.
Do you not understand how silly that sounds? How do you torment anything that is dead? Dead things don't feel. You CAN'T torment them.
It seems you really don't know what you are saying.
So, God resurrects mortal bodies BACK to life and puts a DEAD soul in it??? Why would He do that? Can you explain?
The body only has life when it has a soul. When the soul leaves, the body is dead. Why put a dead soul in a living body?
What will you or God have created? A monster like Frankenstein? A soulless body? lol.
James 2:26 - As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
The bolded words are the definition of physical death. When your soul leaves your body, your body goes limp.
You want to charge me with a mistake??!!
Right. Your mistake is claiming that dead souls will be tormented in the LOF.
Do you not understand how silly that sounds? How do you torment anything that is dead? Dead things don't feel. You CAN'T torment them.
It seems you really don't know what you are saying.
So, God resurrects mortal bodies BACK to life and puts a DEAD soul in it??? Why would He do that? Can you explain?
The body only has life when it has a soul. When the soul leaves, the body is dead. Why put a dead soul in a living body?
What will you or God have created? A monster like Frankenstein? A soulless body? lol.
James 2:26 - As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
The bolded words are the definition of physical death. When your soul leaves your body, your body goes limp.
Webers.Home said:
It's a waste of your time trying to gaslight me. I'm not listening to you. In my opinion
your kind are no different than the Serpent who told Eve; "You shall not die".
You're one to talk. You can't even show any verse showing that God WILL kill souls. And all of you types ignore your problem.
All you can quote is a verse that God is ABLE TO kill souls. But that isn't the same as God actually killing souls.
As I told another denier, I am able to kill lots of people, but I have NEVER killed anyone.
So, being able is far different than actually DOING it.
Believers are ABLE TO sin as much as any unbeliever, but the vast majority don't. Same principle.
Being able isn't doing. You need to learn the difference.
It's a waste of your time trying to gaslight me. I'm not listening to you. In my opinion
your kind are no different than the Serpent who told Eve; "You shall not die".
You're one to talk. You can't even show any verse showing that God WILL kill souls. And all of you types ignore your problem.
All you can quote is a verse that God is ABLE TO kill souls. But that isn't the same as God actually killing souls.
As I told another denier, I am able to kill lots of people, but I have NEVER killed anyone.
So, being able is far different than actually DOING it.
Believers are ABLE TO sin as much as any unbeliever, but the vast majority don't. Same principle.
Being able isn't doing. You need to learn the difference.
FreeGrace2 said:
I don't care. It says "able to", not WILL.
You need to read more slowly.
You CANNOT prove your opinion with Scripture.
That is the obvious conclusion for those without your biases.
lol. What verse SAYS that God WILL kill souls? You don't have any. You don't have any ammo.
I don't care. It says "able to", not WILL.
You need to read more slowly.
You CANNOT prove your opinion with Scripture.
That is the obvious conclusion for those without your biases.
lol. What verse SAYS that God WILL kill souls? You don't have any. You don't have any ammo.
In response to Acts 2 when Peter said David is in his tomb (2:29) and that David didn't ascend to heaven (2:34)
You said, "David was also in Paradise, because Jesus had not been ascended yet. David is now in heaven."
You're saying, at the time of Pentecost when Peter is speaking Acts 2, that Jesus had not yet ascended. However, we know from Acts 1 that Acts 2 is 50 days AFTER Christ ascended.
That's a contradiction, and instead of admitting you made a mistake and moving on from it, you are trying to back peddle your way out.
Theological gymnastics of 2:29 saying it was his body and not his soul, but you neglect to answer for 2:34
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
Thank you for revealing that your intention is not truth; it's that you're right everyone else is wrong.
If you understood the argument Peter was making in Acts 2:25, when he quotes the OT:
Acts 2:25
25 For David says concerning Him (Christ):
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’
Psalm 16:8-11
8 I have set the Lord always before me;
Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved.
9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices;
My flesh also will [a]rest in hope.
10 For You will not leave my soul in [b]Sheol,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to [c]see corruption.
11 You will show me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.
Even though David wrote Psalm 16, Peter is pointing out that Psalm 16 CANNOT be referring to David himself BECAUSE David saw death, and saw corruption and is still in his tomb.
29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
Then Peter goes on and adds in addition to Psalm 16 NOT referring to David himself but rather another, that David didn't ascend to Heaven and then quotes Psalm 110:
Acts 2:34
New King James Version
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Psalm 110:1-7
The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!
3 Your people shall be volunteers
In the day of Your power;
In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning,
You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 7:1-3)
5 The Lord is at Your right hand;
He shall [a]execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall execute the heads of many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.
Peter's argument to his Jewish audience is Psalm 16 & Psalm 110 both written by David was referring to Christ NOT David himself. Christ being the only one to not remain in their tomb and the only one who ascended to heaven.
Which is exactly what John says, that the only man to be in heaven is the Son.
John 3:13
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [a]who is in heaven.
You said, "David was also in Paradise, because Jesus had not been ascended yet. David is now in heaven."
You're saying, at the time of Pentecost when Peter is speaking Acts 2, that Jesus had not yet ascended. However, we know from Acts 1 that Acts 2 is 50 days AFTER Christ ascended.
That's a contradiction, and instead of admitting you made a mistake and moving on from it, you are trying to back peddle your way out.
Theological gymnastics of 2:29 saying it was his body and not his soul, but you neglect to answer for 2:34
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
Thank you for revealing that your intention is not truth; it's that you're right everyone else is wrong.
If you understood the argument Peter was making in Acts 2:25, when he quotes the OT:
Acts 2:25
25 For David says concerning Him (Christ):
‘I foresaw the Lord always before my face,
For He is at my right hand, that I may not be shaken.
26 Therefore my heart rejoiced, and my tongue was glad;
Moreover my flesh also will rest in hope.
27 For You will not leave my soul in Hades,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to see corruption.
28 You have made known to me the ways of life;
You will make me full of joy in Your presence.’
Psalm 16:8-11
8 I have set the Lord always before me;
Because He is at my right hand I shall not be moved.
9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoices;
My flesh also will [a]rest in hope.
10 For You will not leave my soul in [b]Sheol,
Nor will You allow Your Holy One to [c]see corruption.
11 You will show me the path of life;
In Your presence is fullness of joy;
At Your right hand are pleasures forevermore.
Even though David wrote Psalm 16, Peter is pointing out that Psalm 16 CANNOT be referring to David himself BECAUSE David saw death, and saw corruption and is still in his tomb.
29 “Men and brethren, let me speak freely to you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his tomb is with us to this day.
Then Peter goes on and adds in addition to Psalm 16 NOT referring to David himself but rather another, that David didn't ascend to Heaven and then quotes Psalm 110:
Acts 2:34
New King James Version
34 “For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he says himself:
‘The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Psalm 110:1-7
The Lord said to my Lord,
“Sit at My right hand,
Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”
2 The Lord shall send the rod of Your strength out of Zion.
Rule in the midst of Your enemies!
3 Your people shall be volunteers
In the day of Your power;
In the beauties of holiness, from the womb of the morning,
You have the dew of Your youth.
4 The Lord has sworn
And will not relent,
“You are a priest forever
According to the order of Melchizedek.” (Hebrews 7:1-3)
5 The Lord is at Your right hand;
He shall [a]execute kings in the day of His wrath.
6 He shall judge among the nations,
He shall fill the places with dead bodies,
He shall execute the heads of many countries.
7 He shall drink of the brook by the wayside;
Therefore He shall lift up the head.
Peter's argument to his Jewish audience is Psalm 16 & Psalm 110 both written by David was referring to Christ NOT David himself. Christ being the only one to not remain in their tomb and the only one who ascended to heaven.
Which is exactly what John says, that the only man to be in heaven is the Son.
John 3:13
13 No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man [a]who is in heaven.
Let's make this simple.
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Who are "them"
Who is "him"
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Who are "them"
Who is "him"
Well, you actually did do that.
Post 529: I was just pointing out the mistake FreeGrace2 made. The unsaveds' resurrected bodies and their dead souls will be tormented in the lake of fire.
I never said anything about dead souls since I don't believe is any such thing.
Would you please give me a citation so I can examine the text myself? I have no idea what you are referring to. Thanks.
Post 529: I was just pointing out the mistake FreeGrace2 made. The unsaveds' resurrected bodies and their dead souls will be tormented in the lake of fire.
I never said anything about dead souls since I don't believe is any such thing.
Would you please give me a citation so I can examine the text myself? I have no idea what you are referring to. Thanks.
V.34 - 34 For David did not ascend to heaven, and yet he said, “ ‘The Lord said to my Lord: “Sit at my right hand
I guessed you missed the "and yet he said" part. Peter noted that WHEN David said what he said, he had not ascended to heaven.
Peter never said that David wasn't in heaven now (Peter's time).
I did. And he is.
Please show me. I reject even thinking that.
You've already shown some reading problems, so what you say isn't based on what the Bible says.
If you had read BETTER, you wouldn't be saying any of that now. It's your questionable reading skills that have gotten in the way.
OK, one more time. In David's lifetime and even after death, he did not ascend into the heavens. Then Peter quotes what David said when he was alive.
Are we clear yet?
Rather, thank YOU for revealing your questionable reading skills. You might want to seek lessons.
OK, v.27 PROVES that I am right. David knew full well that he would go to Hades when he died. And David is NOW in heaven, and has been since Jesus took all the occupants of Paradise to heaven.
Actually, most of the Psalm is David talking to the Lord. In v.10a he IS referring to himself. But in v.10b he notes that the Messiah won't see corruption. According to Jewish practices, a body begins to decay in 4 days. Jesus was in the grave 3.
Doesn't prove anything. Other than David has died and his body has decayed in the tomb.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post, since you began your post demonstrating some obvious reading problems.
I guessed you missed the "and yet he said" part. Peter noted that WHEN David said what he said, he had not ascended to heaven.
Peter never said that David wasn't in heaven now (Peter's time).
I did. And he is.
Please show me. I reject even thinking that.
You've already shown some reading problems, so what you say isn't based on what the Bible says.
If you had read BETTER, you wouldn't be saying any of that now. It's your questionable reading skills that have gotten in the way.
OK, one more time. In David's lifetime and even after death, he did not ascend into the heavens. Then Peter quotes what David said when he was alive.
Are we clear yet?
Rather, thank YOU for revealing your questionable reading skills. You might want to seek lessons.
OK, v.27 PROVES that I am right. David knew full well that he would go to Hades when he died. And David is NOW in heaven, and has been since Jesus took all the occupants of Paradise to heaven.
Actually, most of the Psalm is David talking to the Lord. In v.10a he IS referring to himself. But in v.10b he notes that the Messiah won't see corruption. According to Jewish practices, a body begins to decay in 4 days. Jesus was in the grave 3.
Doesn't prove anything. Other than David has died and his body has decayed in the tomb.
I'm not going to address the rest of your post, since you began your post demonstrating some obvious reading problems.
FreeGrace2 said:
Thanks for asking. Yes, I sure did.
That is what the Bible says. So I will say it a well.
Please take my advice and read it again, but S L O W L Y this time.
You have tried to CHANGE the Word of God by your bias.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Where do you see the words "will be" anywhere in that verse?
You DON'T because they aren't there. All you will see if your eyes are open are the words "who CAN desstroy both soul and body in hell".
btw, "hell" isn't the LOF. The Greek for "hell" is Hades, and is where Jesus went to "preach to the spirits in prison after His death on the cross.
Now that we've crossed that hurdle, what verse SAYS that God WILL destroy souls?
Why do you persist in these silly questions?
I've NEVER EVER said anything about "dead souls" and reject the idea that a soul will die. So you may stop trying to put words into my mouth.
And I NEVER EVER said there are dead bodies in Hades rather than the grave.
You are really demonstrating some poor reading skills. You don't even know what I have said, obviously.
So, why should I continue a discussion with someone who doesn't follow what I say, and just goes off with nutty ideas that I fully reject?
Thanks for asking. Yes, I sure did.
That is what the Bible says. So I will say it a well.
Please take my advice and read it again, but S L O W L Y this time.
You have tried to CHANGE the Word of God by your bias.
"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
Where do you see the words "will be" anywhere in that verse?
You DON'T because they aren't there. All you will see if your eyes are open are the words "who CAN desstroy both soul and body in hell".
btw, "hell" isn't the LOF. The Greek for "hell" is Hades, and is where Jesus went to "preach to the spirits in prison after His death on the cross.
Now that we've crossed that hurdle, what verse SAYS that God WILL destroy souls?
Why do you persist in these silly questions?
I've NEVER EVER said anything about "dead souls" and reject the idea that a soul will die. So you may stop trying to put words into my mouth.
And I NEVER EVER said there are dead bodies in Hades rather than the grave.
You are really demonstrating some poor reading skills. You don't even know what I have said, obviously.
So, why should I continue a discussion with someone who doesn't follow what I say, and just goes off with nutty ideas that I fully reject?
FreeGrace2 said:
Well, you actually did do that.
Post 529: I was just pointing out the mistake FreeGrace2 made. The unsaveds' resurrected bodies and their dead souls will be tormented in the lake of fire.
I never said anything about dead souls since I don't believe is any such thing.
"The unsaveds' resurrected bodies and their dead souls"
Do you think that the bodies and souls won't be united?
Well, you actually did do that.
Post 529: I was just pointing out the mistake FreeGrace2 made. The unsaveds' resurrected bodies and their dead souls will be tormented in the lake of fire.
I never said anything about dead souls since I don't believe is any such thing.
"The unsaveds' resurrected bodies and their dead souls"
Do you think that the bodies and souls won't be united?
You just wrote to me Matthew 10's hell is Hades not the lake of fire.
You just wrote to me that God will destroy both soul and body in Hades
Does that not mean dead bodies are going to Hades?
Does hell have a double meaning there? Or are you just double minded. 🤣
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
You just wrote to me that God will destroy both soul and body in Hades
Does that not mean dead bodies are going to Hades?
Does hell have a double meaning there? Or are you just double minded. 🤣
Matthew 10:28
And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.