The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.
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That doesn`t prove that the city will be on the ground. God has `vehicles` that can transport the kings to the city. Think of how Elijah was taken up.
`Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.` ( 2 Kings 2: 11)
The English translators have written - chariot of fire, and horses of fire, but that is NOT what is in the Hebrew.
Chariot - Heb. reheb, a vehicle
Horses - Heb. cuc, flight
Fire - Heb. `esh, fiery, (Lit or fig)
whirlwind - Heb. ca`ar, hurricane, whirlwind, (lit, or fig)
Thus we can see that Elijah went up into heaven in a vehicle for flight that seemed fiery, in a whirlwind.
`Then it happened, as they continued on and talked, that suddenly a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of them; and Elijah went up by a whirlwind into heaven.` ( 2 Kings 2: 11)
The English translators have written - chariot of fire, and horses of fire, but that is NOT what is in the Hebrew.
Chariot - Heb. reheb, a vehicle
Horses - Heb. cuc, flight
Fire - Heb. `esh, fiery, (Lit or fig)
whirlwind - Heb. ca`ar, hurricane, whirlwind, (lit, or fig)
Thus we can see that Elijah went up into heaven in a vehicle for flight that seemed fiery, in a whirlwind.
The River of Life: Christ`s divine nature.
The `river of life,` is Christ`s own divine nature that is sent forth from God by the Holy Spirit to refresh, energise and give continuous life to the people.
`And he showed me a pure river of the water of life, clear as crystal,
proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.`
(Rev. 22: 1)
The Tree of Life: Christ`s life of service.
The `tree of Life,` with its 12 fruits each month is the life of service coming from Christ`s life. This enables the community to function and serve, being fruitful in every good work with the `leaves,` drawing in nutriment for continuous health.
`In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river,
was the tree of life, which bore 12 fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month.
And the leaves of the tree were for the healing (health) of the nations.`
(Rev. 22: 2)
The `river of life,` is Christ`s own divine nature that is sent forth from God by the Holy Spirit to refresh, energise and give continuous life to the people.
`And he showed me a pure river of the water of life, clear as crystal,
proceeding from the throne of God and of the Lamb.`
(Rev. 22: 1)
The Tree of Life: Christ`s life of service.
The `tree of Life,` with its 12 fruits each month is the life of service coming from Christ`s life. This enables the community to function and serve, being fruitful in every good work with the `leaves,` drawing in nutriment for continuous health.
`In the middle of its street, and on either side of the river,
was the tree of life, which bore 12 fruits, each tree yielding its fruit every month.
And the leaves of the tree were for the healing (health) of the nations.`
(Rev. 22: 2)
I know of those but the city descends to the Earth. That's pretty clear from the language in Revelation 21-22.
Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.
Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
If God was still way up high, that would not be God dwelling with men.
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FreeGrace2 said:
I believe it is a bit of a strectch to assume the city floats above the earth.
There is nothing in Rev 21 to suggest the city does not rest on the NE. We'll just have to see.
Bingo!
Also, Rev 22:14 - “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
"going through the gates into the city" requires being just outside the gates first. It is clear that the NJ rests ON the NE.
I believe it is a bit of a strectch to assume the city floats above the earth.
There is nothing in Rev 21 to suggest the city does not rest on the NE. We'll just have to see.
Bingo!
Also, Rev 22:14 - “Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city.
"going through the gates into the city" requires being just outside the gates first. It is clear that the NJ rests ON the NE.
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FreeGrace2 said:
I believe it is a bit of a strectch to assume the city floats above the earth.
There is nothing in Rev 21 to suggest the city does not rest on the NE. We'll just have to see.
I don't see any relevance between my claim and this verse.
Presumption. Rev 22:14 describes people going "through the gates".
More presumption. What verses support this idea?
Not true. "With God, all things are possible."
If this is your only support, it isn't much.
I believe it is a bit of a strectch to assume the city floats above the earth.
There is nothing in Rev 21 to suggest the city does not rest on the NE. We'll just have to see.
I don't see any relevance between my claim and this verse.
Presumption. Rev 22:14 describes people going "through the gates".
More presumption. What verses support this idea?
Not true. "With God, all things are possible."
If this is your only support, it isn't much.
ewq1938 said:
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
People will walk into the city so that proves it will be on the ground not to mention a river flowing from the throne in that city.
Seems you like to stretch things quite a bit. Flaiming chariots to get to the NJ? Really?
I would prefer a flying Lamborgini. Flaming or not.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
People will walk into the city so that proves it will be on the ground not to mention a river flowing from the throne in that city.
Seems you like to stretch things quite a bit. Flaiming chariots to get to the NJ? Really?
I would prefer a flying Lamborgini. Flaming or not.
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Partial incorporation of the complete picture has virtually guaranteed error for you.
Rev 14:14
Gathering in heaven , the earth is reaped of main harvest Born again Jews DURING THE GT.
That alone TOTALLY DESTROYS YOU ENTIRE DEAL.
You are left in ruins.
Those teachers deceived you big time
How????
Via omission!!!!
Rev 14:14
Gathering in heaven , the earth is reaped of main harvest Born again Jews DURING THE GT.
That alone TOTALLY DESTROYS YOU ENTIRE DEAL.
You are left in ruins.
Those teachers deceived you big time
How????
Via omission!!!!
No, what totally destroys YOUR presumptions is that the reaping of the main harvest in Rev 14 is about killings, killings, and more killings.
14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”
16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.
18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”
19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.
Anyone who sees a rapture of believers in Rev 14 needs new eyes.
All the red words deal with sharp sickles and reaping and harvesting, which is what sharp sickles are FOR.
The blue words refer to the RESULT of using the sharp sickles and reaping and harvesting the earth.
LOTS AND LOTS OF BLOOD. As high as a horse's bridle, oh, for about 180 miles.
And you think Rev 14 is about a rapture.
Said the one who thinks that Jesus is going to swing His sharp sickle and rapture believers. And misses the small point that there will be SO MUCH BLOOD after He swings His sharp sickle that the blood will run as high as a horse's bridle for about 180 miles.
Maybe you just haven't read ALL of ch 14. Were you aware that the sharp sickle is RESPONSIBLE for all that blood?
Do you really think the resurrection and rapture will be all that BLOODY?
Were you aware of how much BLOOD will flow when Jesus swings His sharp sickle over the earth to reap and harvest??
Or were you OMITTING that clear fact?
How embarrassing. Thinking the "rapture" will be so BLOODY!!
You should only mention the rapture as "that BLOODY RAPTURE".
14 I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of man with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand.
15 Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.”
16 So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
17 Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle.
18 Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.”
19 The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath.
20 They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.
Anyone who sees a rapture of believers in Rev 14 needs new eyes.
All the red words deal with sharp sickles and reaping and harvesting, which is what sharp sickles are FOR.
The blue words refer to the RESULT of using the sharp sickles and reaping and harvesting the earth.
LOTS AND LOTS OF BLOOD. As high as a horse's bridle, oh, for about 180 miles.
And you think Rev 14 is about a rapture.
Said the one who thinks that Jesus is going to swing His sharp sickle and rapture believers. And misses the small point that there will be SO MUCH BLOOD after He swings His sharp sickle that the blood will run as high as a horse's bridle for about 180 miles.
Maybe you just haven't read ALL of ch 14. Were you aware that the sharp sickle is RESPONSIBLE for all that blood?
Do you really think the resurrection and rapture will be all that BLOODY?
Were you aware of how much BLOOD will flow when Jesus swings His sharp sickle over the earth to reap and harvest??
Or were you OMITTING that clear fact?
How embarrassing. Thinking the "rapture" will be so BLOODY!!
You should only mention the rapture as "that BLOODY RAPTURE".
1 thes 4 is the first resurrection.
Postribs are oblivious that the dead rise first.
Your teachers deceived you.
You erroneously place the dead rising after the 144k and AFTER the gathering of rev 14:14.
I feel For you guys with so much invested in such a hoax.
But i do understand.
Rev 14 has been skipped by your teachers FOR DECADES!!!!
Now there is nowhere to go.
Postrib rapture erroneous doctrine exposed.
Btw...rev 20 points to a previous resurrection as you were forced to admit.
Just say'in....sorry about that one also.
I do feel for you guys.
I have devastated your deal.
Postribs are oblivious that the dead rise first.
Your teachers deceived you.
You erroneously place the dead rising after the 144k and AFTER the gathering of rev 14:14.
I feel For you guys with so much invested in such a hoax.
But i do understand.
Rev 14 has been skipped by your teachers FOR DECADES!!!!
Now there is nowhere to go.
Postrib rapture erroneous doctrine exposed.
Btw...rev 20 points to a previous resurrection as you were forced to admit.
Just say'in....sorry about that one also.
I do feel for you guys.
I have devastated your deal.
Now invoke your "what is obvious" ingredient with the verses POINTING to RESURRECTED OR RAPTURED belivers IN HEAVEN,DURING THE GT. ( rev 14)
Invoke your "that's plainly obvious" concept you use to promote the simon the leper dimension into rev 14.
Stop with the ," ha ha ,nowhere does it say " white bird" on the white bird."
Your "prove a negative" deal has dust on it big time.
Invoke your "that's plainly obvious" concept you use to promote the simon the leper dimension into rev 14.
Stop with the ," ha ha ,nowhere does it say " white bird" on the white bird."
Your "prove a negative" deal has dust on it big time.
"""What is the big deal with Simon? Why are you so obsessed with him? What does it profit you? Why would anyone have "proof to the contrary"?
Of course neither I nor anyone else has "any proof to the contrary" about Simon. So your continued comments seem rather odd."""
....YES!!!!
NOW LIVE IT OUT IN YOUR REASONING!!!
AMEN to your newfound ability!!!
Read what you wrote.
Read it slowly.
Then go to rev 14.
You are welcome
Of course neither I nor anyone else has "any proof to the contrary" about Simon. So your continued comments seem rather odd."""
....YES!!!!
NOW LIVE IT OUT IN YOUR REASONING!!!
AMEN to your newfound ability!!!
Read what you wrote.
Read it slowly.
Then go to rev 14.
You are welcome
It's the ONLY resurrection of the saved. Matt 22:30, Luke 14:14, Acts 24:15, 1 Cor 15:23.
Be my guest and address each verse and prove to me they don't speak of resurrrection in the singular.
Why do you purposely LIE about what we believe? Everyone knows 1 Thess 4.
No, that "privilege" belongs to the teachers who CANNOT provide ANY verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
I just soundly refuted your nutty views about Rev 14, so I don't use that chapter for understanding the singular resurrection.
BTW, are you going to admit that your view of the rapture is real bloody, now that I've shown you how the chapter ends.
Go ahead and explain WHY the rapture must be so bloody.
Right. You are in a very tight corner, what with all that blood to explain!!
You are again BLOODY WRONG.
Another LIE. Please show me the post # where I supposedly admitted to a "previous resurrection". Maybe you just don't read so well.
Rev 20 is about the singular resurrection.
You're just sorry, all right.
Self deceived is what you are really doing.
Be my guest and address each verse and prove to me they don't speak of resurrrection in the singular.
Why do you purposely LIE about what we believe? Everyone knows 1 Thess 4.
No, that "privilege" belongs to the teachers who CANNOT provide ANY verse showing Jesus taking glorified believers to heaven.
I just soundly refuted your nutty views about Rev 14, so I don't use that chapter for understanding the singular resurrection.
BTW, are you going to admit that your view of the rapture is real bloody, now that I've shown you how the chapter ends.
Go ahead and explain WHY the rapture must be so bloody.
Right. You are in a very tight corner, what with all that blood to explain!!
You are again BLOODY WRONG.
Another LIE. Please show me the post # where I supposedly admitted to a "previous resurrection". Maybe you just don't read so well.
Rev 20 is about the singular resurrection.
You're just sorry, all right.
Self deceived is what you are really doing.
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