The False Teaching (& Truth) of what happens at the Rapture.

[FreeGrace2]

"So, there IS evidence that Simon WAS healed, because the disciples came with Jesus.
But there are NO VERSES showing that Jesus will take glorified believers to heaven."

What? Evidence WITHOUT VERSES???
Well now....that certainly blows away about 1000 of your wasted posts and 100,000 of your wasted words doesn't it?

No, because the evidence was IN THE CONTEXT of Jesus eating with Simon.

Where is the evidence IN THE CONTEXT of resurrection where dead and living believers get their glorified bodies? There isn't.

And that is the difference.

Anyways....the pre-trib rapture is boilerplate Biblical doctrine. There is no plausible alternative.

Of course there is. Actual Bible verses that clearly TELL us WHEN all believers receive a glorified body.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I have shown the Bible teaches that "those who belong to Him", being ALL believers from Adam forward, will be resurrected "when He comes", which is at the Second Coming...

Since there is only slaughter at the Second Coming, this is patently false. See Revelation 19 where there is not a word about any resurrection, and where the Second Coming is described in detail. How do people manage to get themselves so confused?

 

[FreeGrace2]

Since there is only slaughter at the Second Coming, this is patently false.

It is your own presumption that is false. I've shown from the Bible that there is ONE resurrection of the saved. And we know from 1 Thess 4 that the resurrection of dead saints INCLUDES living believers getting their glorified bodies.

Why is 1 Thess 4 ALWAYS taught as a "rapture verse" when there is NO MENTION of glorified believers taking a trip up to heaven? Because this passage is teaching about the Second Advent, which is WHEN Jesus comes back to reign on the earth.

Of course there will be killing. That's how King Jesus ends the battle of Armageddon. But He will be accompanied by all the saints already in heaven, per Rev 19. And "when He comes", He will gather up all the living believers (2 Thess 2:1) and all believers, both the dead and living will receive glorified bodies at that time.

The verses I have shared SAY SO. There are NO verses telling us that Jesus takes glorified believers to heaven. Without evidence, there is no reason to believe that idea.

I do what the Bereans did. I have searched the Scriptures daily to see if what the pretribbers say is true. And I find that their teaching is not.

To say "there is only slaughter at the Second Coming" completely misses EVERYTHING that will occur when He comes.

He ends the battle of Armageddon, He gives glorified bodies to all believers, both dead and living, He sets up His kingdom on earth, and has the wedding supper, which is for all believers. What we don't know specifically, is when the Bema will occur. It seems most logical that He holds the Judgment Seat judgment at the beginning of His reign, where all believers will be judged on whether they receive rewards or not. 2 Cor 5:10

See Revelation 19 where there is not a word about any resurrection, and where the Second Coming is described in detail. How do people manage to get themselves so confused?

Wait a minute. Rev 19 is what Jesus does when He comes, before He gathers up the living believers. But there are ample verses showing that the Second Advent is when the single resurrection of believers occurs.

What can't be found in the Bible is any teaching that Jesus gives all believers glorified bodies and then takes them to heaven.

It seems to me that if He will, it's such an important fact that the Bible would have very clearly stated it.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

What? Evidence WITHOUT VERSES???

Yup.






Like... the 24 elders saying "hast redeemed US... out-of EVERY..." while wearing "stephanous / crowns of gold" which... of "crown / stephanon" Paul had said he would be awarded "IN THAT DAY" (not before... and not at the time of his DEATH)... and not to him ONLY... and which chpts 2-3 (in "the things WHICH ARE" section 1:19b) said ppl would be receiving (future-ly)... so in the section of "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (1:19c) are actually persons obviously having already RECEIVED / BEEN AWARDED said "crowns"... and shown "sitting on thrones" themselves... in a "judgment-throne-room" SETTING (5:4; 4:3)... being located UP IN Heaven, BEFORE Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, etc) at the START of those "7 years" when He will open the FIRST SEAL (otherwise known as the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 and 1Th5:1-3]")... All pretty plainly obviously clear to me!





[and that's just the tip of the iceberg! lol ]

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Whoa, Whoa, Whoa, where do you get the NO ONE WILL EXIST?

I meant, "exist" on the earth...

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

THAT IS THE FIRST DEATH THAT DEATH COMES UPON EVERY ONE
Hebrews 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment 28 So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for Him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.

And those not looking are going to wish for mountains to fall on them

and the dead resurrect. The 'spiritually dead' rise and remain 'spiritually dead' for the 1000 years.

THE SECOND DEATH TAKES PLACE at the GWTJ that would be all the nations who have been being taught and ruled by Christ and the priests and judges aka THE GLORIFIED SAINTS
(on whom the 2nd death has no effect they receive their immortality when they first rise)

So when I say no more flesh I mean

NO MORE EARTHEN/TERRESTRIAL/CORRUPTIBLE/MORTAL BODIES.

WE WILL be like the angels.

The JUST/saved/Christians/believers WHEN RESURRECTED receive their IMMORTAL/incorruptible/celestial/glorified bodies
The UNJUST/not saved/marked/non believers when resurrected receive A STILL MORTAL/still spiritually dead/maybe 2nd death/incorruptible/celestial/NOT GLORIFIED body.
1 Corinthians 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain
38 But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.

1 Corinthians 15:49 And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

WHAT is Gods desire? That all come to repentance. God doesn't need us to be priests and rulers over 'believers only' but over all the nations. ALL the kingdoms of the earth will become the Lords. All the nations will be coming to the temple to worship.

HEAVEN IS COMING TO EARTH. Christ is not coming back to be 'an earthy man' again. All the armies returning with Him are ALL IN THEIR SPIRITUAL BODIES. How many? Multitudes. Ever check out the size of the millennial temple?

EARTH bodies, corruptible bodies can't make it 1000 years. EVEN before the fall no one did. There is no death during the Lords Day because DEATH BY WAY OF SIN AND SATAN AND BONDAGE AND POWER HAVE BEEN DEFEATED. Everyone has had a first death. THERE IS ONLY ONE DEATH LEFT AND THAT IS AT THE GWTJ.

But that doesn't take place until AFTER SATAN IS LOOSED FOR A SHORT SEASON.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

THAT IS THE 2ND DEATH FOR ALL OF THEM. THEY ARE GONE. THEY HAVE BEEN BLOTTED OUT OF ALL TIME.

WHICH LEAVES US WITH

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

NOW WE HAVE THOSE who have been SPIRITUALLY DEAD for the past 1000 years that when Satan was loosed, didn't follow after him. They have come to faith. They love God and they are about to receive their immortality.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

THESE ARE THE DEAD THAT 'NEVER RESURRECTED' AT the beginning of the Lords Day. They HEARD THE WORDS OF THE LORD, THEY WERE OFFERED SALVATION, SOME WERE EVEN SAVED, BUT THEY LOVED THEIR OWN LIVES, THEY LOVED THE WAYS OF THE WORLD, THEY ARE EVIL AND CRUEL AND THEY ARE RESURRECTED TO GO INTO THE LAKE OF FIRE. THEY CHOSE DEATH AND NOW THEY ARE GETTING WHAT THEY CHOSE.

Revelation 20:14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

What I *think* you are saying is that ALL who have EVER LIVED on this earth (and who will have DIED before the point in time being referenced) will be RESURRECTED [from the dead bodily] AT THE SAME TIME (saved and unsaved ALIKE), that being, at the time of Christ's Second Coming (according to your understanding)... but that SOME (us "SAVED" ones) will have ONE TYPE of "spiritual body" and OTHERS (the "UNSAVED" ones) will have ANOTHER type of "spiritual [zombie-like] body"... but ALL [receiving those] at the SAME TIME (and it is the ZOMBIES / UNSAVED-spiritual-bodied-persons) who Satan will go out to DECEIVE at the end of the 1000 years.
Am I reading you right?

So... if ALL PERSONS EVER are "RESURRECTED" (and given a type of "spiritual body" suited to their "SAVED" or "UNSAVED" status) "ALL" AT THE SAME POINT IN TIME, then who does the following speak verse speak of:

"But the REST of the dead lived not again until the 1000 years were concluded" (Rev20:5a)

There is something else I am supposed to say but I forget what it is.

Yes, I would say so... = )

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ ran out of EDIT time...

 

[cv5]

Yup.






Like... the 24 elders saying "hast redeemed US... out-of EVERY..." while wearing "stephanous / crowns of gold" which... of "crown / stephanon" Paul had said he would be awarded "IN THAT DAY" (not before... and not at the time of his DEATH)... and not to him ONLY... and which chpts 2-3 (in "the things WHICH ARE" section 1:19b) said ppl would be receiving (future-ly)... so in the section of "the things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [NOUN]" (1:19c) are actually persons obviously having already RECEIVED / BEEN AWARDED said "crowns"... and shown "sitting on thrones" themselves... in a "judgment-throne-room" SETTING (5:4; 4:3)... being located UP IN Heaven, BEFORE Jesus will "STAND to JUDGE" (Isa3:13, Rev5:6, etc) at the START of those "7 years" when He will open the FIRST SEAL (otherwise known as the INITIAL "birth PANG [SINGULAR; Matt24:4/Mk13:5 and 1Th5:1-3]")... All pretty plainly obviously clear to me!





[and that's just the tip of the iceberg! lol ]

Indeed. Back up the truck because there's a lot more where that came from....

 

[ewq1938]

Since there is only slaughter at the Second Coming, this is patently false. See Revelation 19 where there is not a word about any resurrection, and where the Second Coming is described in detail. How do people manage to get themselves so confused?

The confusion is all yours. By the time of Revelation 19, the resurrection is already completed.

 

[kleronomos]

I meant, "exist" on the earth...

Everyone will exist on the earth ON The Lords Day

THE SAVED THAT WENT TO HEAVEN, HAVE RETURNED

THE ALIVE AND REMAINING HAVE BEEN CHANGED

THE UN SAVED ARE RESURRECTED

AND THOSE WHO BLEW IT, CAUSE THEY ESCHEWED IT 'UNSAVED' DO NOT (TILL THE END OF THE 1000 YEARS 4 LOF)



.

God choses a people, they want a flesh king amongst them,

SO

GOD comes IN FLESH to EARTH,

REJECTED, again

HE RETURNS THE 2RD TIME...

EVERYONE who NEVER CHOSE WILL GET A CHANCE TO CHOOSE.




SO OUR PEOPLES ARE

1. Live on earth IN FAITH, THEN CONTINUE ON LIVING in heaven UNTIL THE LORDS DAY.
RETURN WITH HIM AND HELP SET UP HIS KINGDOM ON EARTH (instead of waiting until there was only one man left all alone on the earth and waiting for HIM ALSO TO DIE, GOD is returning BEFORE that when the SAVED, called the 'alive and remaining' are changed and JOINED together with the returned.

THE LORDS DAY BEGINS. 1st day of HEAVEN ON EARTH.


2. Born on earth yet LIVE AS DEAD/UNSAVED and then continue on as DEAD/UNSAVED with DEATH.


THOSE WHO CHOOSE GOD ARE WITH HIM BEFORE AND AFTER DEATH OF THE FLESH BODY. ON THE EARTH OR IN HEAVEN

THOSE WHO DON'T choose God ARE NEVER WITH HIM NEITHER ON EARTH NOR IN HEAVEN, NO MATTER WHAT BODY




PEOPLE BORN ON THE EARTH ARE IN EARTH BODIES

ONCE PEOPLE DIE THEY ARE IN HEAVENLY BODIES


WHEN CHRIST RETURNS ALL THE SAVED RETURN WITH HIM. ALL THE DEAD, many who have just taken part in the first death, ARE RAISED (with exceptions). ALL THE ALIVE AND REMAINING 'ARE CHANGED' (THEY WILL NEVER SEE DEATH BUT THE ONLY HEAVEN THEY WILL EVER SEE IS THE HEAVEN ON EARTH THAT HAS DESCENDED WITH CHRIST.


BORN DIE TO HEAVEN - OF FIRST RESURRECTION. BORN DIE TO HELL - FIRST DEATH BORN DIE TO HELL- FIRST DEATH BORN DIE TO HEAVEN - FIRST RESURRECTION

CHRIST RETURNS - MARKED DROP DEAD/DIE - FIRST DEATH
SAME TIME - UN MARKED - NOT DIE - TRANSFIGURED - FIRST RESURRECTION.

ALL SAVED ARE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION. WHY ARE ALL BELIEVERS OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION?

BECAUSE ALL BELIEVERS/SAVED/RISEN WITH CHRIST/CHRISTIANS/NEW CREATURES RECEIVE THEIR IMMORTALITY UPON DEATH OF THE FLESH. THAT IS WHY CHRIST CAME. FORGIVNESS FOR SIN. WHAT THE LAW COULD NOT DO.

NO SIN, NO DEATH (YES, FLESH BODY DEATH 'as in Adam all die'

but

BELIEVERS POSSESS 'THE WAY, THE LIFE, THE RESURRECTION BEFORE THE FLESH DIES SO EVEN THOUGH THE FLESH BODY EXPERIENCES DEATH, DEATH HAS NO POWER OVER THE SPIRITUAL BODY, THE SAVED, SINLESS, WASHED CLEAN BY THE INIFINITE VALUE OF THE BLOOD OF THE LAMB, DEATH CAN'T HOLD THEM, HE HAS NO POWER OVER THEM. CHRIST DEFEATED DEATH FOR US CHRIST DIED SO WE DON'T HAVE TO)

DON'T HAVE TO BE BEHEADED JUST HAVE TO BELIEVE.

DON'T HAVE TO BE IN THE END GENERATION JUST HAVE TO HAVE FAITH NO MATTER WHEN YOU LIVED AND DIED


ALL IT TAKES TO BE OF THE FIRST RESURRECTION IS FAITH TO CONFESS CHRIST IS THE SON OF GOD THE ONLY BEGOTTEN WHO DIED AND WAS RAISED.



AND NOT A WORD HAS TO BE CHANGED. NOT A WORD HAS TO BE MODIFIED. NOT A WORD HAS TO BE ADDED.


NO EXPLANATIONS. WHAT IS WRITTEN IS WHAT HAPPENS. EXACTLY AS IT IS WRITTEN.


LETS SAY THIS MOMENT IS THE MOMENT.

THE WHOLE WORLD HAS BEEN WORSHIPPING AN IMAGE FOR THE PAST COUPLE MONTHS. IT IS ALL EVERYONE IT TALKING ABOUT. IT WAS TOUCH AND GO FOR A MINUTE OR TWO AND THEN MIRACLE OF MIRACLES HERE COMES CHRIST TO SAVE THE DAY. THE DEADLY WOUND IS HEALED AND THE IMAGE SET UP AND ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS WORSHIP AND LIFE IS THE BEST EVER EVER EVER.

OF COURSE THERE ARE THOSE 'CRAZIES' WHO DON'T BELIEVE IT. AND THOSE TWO DUDES DOING MIRACLES TOO. AREN'T THEY JUST A PAIN IN THE NECK. WELL TAKE THAT UNRULY DAUGHTER AND SEND HER FOR RE EDUCATION.

OH, HOW EVERYONE WISHES SOME ONE WOULD JUST SHUT THEM TWO DUDES ALREADY, THEN LIFE ON EARTH WOULD BE PERFECT.


THE TWO WITNESSES ARE KILLED AND 3 1/2 DAYS LATER AS THE WORLD PARTIED AND REJOICED

THEY STAND UP. THEN A VOICE FROM HEAVEN IS HEARD AND THEY RISE UP TO HEAVEN

AND THEN ALL HELL BREAKS LOOSE. EARTHQUAKE, SUN GOES DARK AS THEY SEE THE BRIGHTNESS OF HIS COMING. HAPPY AND REJOICING A MINUTE AGO FIRST DEATH AND RESURRECTION IN THE BLINK OF AN EYE THEN 'THE ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE CHANGED'.


BEHOLD I SHEW YOU A MYSTERY,

1 Corinthians 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; WE SHALL NOT ALL SLEEP (BUT ALMOST THE ENTIRE WORLD WILL IN THE BLINK OF AN EYE)

BUT WE SHALL ALL BE CHANGED.

FIRST DEATH OR FIRST RESURRECTION



NOW OF COURSE ARE THE PROBLEMS WITH THE 'WHO OF THE FIRST DEATH RISES'. BECAUSE THERE ARE ALOT OF 'UNSAVED' SINCE THE WORLD BEGAN THAT NEED TO RISE AND ALOT OF THE 'JUST DROPPED DEAD' THAT NEED TO WAIT UNTIL THE LAKE OF FIRE.


BUT NO MATTER WHAT, ALL "EARTHEN FLESH" IS DONE AWAY WITH?

DON'T BELIEVE ME? THEN JUST TELL ME WHICH PEOPLE THAT TAKE THE MARK OF THE BEAST WILL SURVIVE THE BRIGHTNESS OF THE LORDS COMING?

 

[Marilyn]

FreeGrace2 said:

Regarding the NJ under "universe", did you forget where the NJ SITS? On the NE. Don't forget that.

I don't understand. From Rev 21 we see the present earth pass away, and there is a NE. And then the NJ comes down from heaven TO the NE.

I also don't see how Rev 21:24 is relevant to my comment.

The city comes down from the highest heaven to the Universal realm where is will be the `light` for the nations to walk in. As the NE rotates then every part of the earth will receive its light.

View attachment 236128

 

[Marilyn]

 

[Nehemiah6]

Everyone will exist on the earth ON The Lords Day

Do you not know that "the Lord's Day" is the first day of the week -- the morrow after the Sabbath -- the day on which Christ rose from the dead -- the day of Christian rest, worship, and good works? The Lord's Day has been observed as the Christian Sabbath for over 2,000 years. So what exactly do you mean by this remark?

 

[kleronomos]

Luke 20:41 And he said unto them, How say they that Christ is David's son?
42 And David himself saith in the book of Psalms, The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
43 Till I make thine enemies thy footstool.


Acts 2:32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool.
36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the LORD our God shall call.
40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.
41 Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.


IF ALL HIS ENEMIES HAVE TO BE AT HIS FEET, BEFORE HE CAN LEAVE THE RIGHT HAND OF GOD,

HOW DOES THE CHURCH GET TO HEAVEN BEFORE?

OR IS THIS YET ANOTHER PLACE THAT GOD WROTE IT WRONG OR DIDN'T MEAN WHAT HE WROTE?

IF GOD DIDN'T MEAN WHAT IS WRITTEN YET AGAIN,

WHAT HATH GOD SAID?

ONE THING ABOUT THIS THEORY, GOD NEVER MEANS WHAT HE WRITES OR HE WRITES IN COMPLETE CONFUSION.

LET'S SEE

CONCERNING THE DAY OF THE LORD AND OUR GATHERING TO HIM
THE GATHERING TO HIM DOESN'T HAPPEN UNTIL AFTER THE GATHERING TO HIM.

ok

ALL THE ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE CHANGED BUT NOT ALL THE ALIVE AND REMAINING ARE CHANGED

ok

LO HERE IS CHRIST BELIEVE THEM NOT BUT BELIEVE 'LO HERE IS CHRIST'

ok

DON'T LEAVE THE RIGHT HAND UNTIL AFTER ENEMIES MADE FOOT STOOL BUT LEAVE BEFORE ENEMIES MADE FOOTSTOOL

ok


THE CHURCH HAS ELDERS BUT ONCE IN HEAVEN THE CHURCH SUDDENLY BECOMES 'THE ELDERS'

ok


WE ARE TO SUFFER WITH CHRIST THAT WE MAY BE GLORIFIED WITH HIM BUT WE BE 'CAUGHT UP' BEFORE WE CAN SUFFER WITH CHRIST.

ok



Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob

HOW DOES ANY OF THIS SPEAK TO THE CHURCH?

OR DOES THE CHURCH STILL CONSIDER THEMSELVES GENTILES OR DO THEY CONSIDER THEMSELVES 'THE BODY/THE BRIDE/THE CHURCH/CHRISTIANS/NEW CREATURE? OR DO THEY GO BACK TO BEING THE GENTILES FOR THESE VERSES?


Luke 21:23 But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.



HOW VERY TRAGIC FOR ME TO SEE DECEPTION IN ALL THOSE VERSES.

BUT DO LET'S CONTINUE ON.

 

[kleronomos]

Do you not know that "the Lord's Day" is the first day of the week -- the morrow after the Sabbath -- the day on which Christ rose from the dead -- the day of Christian rest, worship, and good works? The Lord's Day has been observed as the Christian Sabbath for over 2,000 years. So what exactly do you mean by this remark?

WHEN I GET PAST ALL THESE OTHER DECEPTIONS, I WILL GET BACK WITH YOU ON THIS ONE, THOUGH I AM SURE YOU HAVE HEARD TRUTH BEFORE.

 

[kleronomos]

View attachment 236130

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

 

[FreeGrace2]

The city comes down from the highest heaven to the Universal realm where is will be the `light` for the nations to walk in. As the NE rotates then every part of the earth will receive its light.

View attachment 236128

I believe it is a bit of a strectch to assume the city floats above the earth.

There is nothing in Rev 21 to suggest the city does not rest on the NE. We'll just have to see.

 

[ewq1938]

I believe it is a bit of a strectch to assume the city floats above the earth.

There is nothing in Rev 21 to suggest the city does not rest on the NE. We'll just have to see.

Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.

People will walk into the city so that proves it will be on the ground not to mention a river flowing from the throne in that city.

 

[peldom10]

I do not agree with everything Dr. Fruchtenbaum has to say, but I cannot see any SERIOUS or prolific errors within this particular video. So its quite close to being accurate IMO. And very good well rounded info in any case.

Why his view when we have the Bible...which is clear?

 

[Marilyn]

Revelation 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.

And what is that you are saying from that scripture?

 

[Marilyn]

I believe it is a bit of a strectch to assume the city floats above the earth.

There is nothing in Rev 21 to suggest the city does not rest on the NE. We'll just have to see.

`He hangs the earth on nothing..` (Job 26: 7)

Amazing. Now the city will be above the earth like the moon is now, but during the day time, for the nations walk in its LIGHT. As the earth spins through our solar system around the sun, the city revolves around the earth. That is the only way for all the nations to be able to walk in its light - physically and spiritually.

`And the city had no need of the sun or of the moon to shine in it, for the glory of God illuminated it, and the Lamb is its light. And the nations of those who are saved SHALL WALK IN ITS LIGHT and bring their glory and honour into it.` (Rev. 21: 22 & 23)