Testing gift of prophecy on christianchat.

[lrs68]

Some people just never understand no matter what you say.

Have a good one mate.

I am talking about Church structure and you are talking about individualism. And even though the individual should match the Church structure. It's blatantly clear that I believe the Church of today should resemble the Church in the Book of Acts and you believe it should have evolved into the structure we are at. But if we compare the two it's as opposite as night is from day. And I don't believe God can be found in 90% of the Protestant Movement today and most members won't make it to Heaven.

 

[Brasspen]

Irs68. The took the church and changed it so it would fit what they wanted. I am not certain but I think there was a scripture on it. What was, customs. Jesus talking about eating with unwashed hands. Changing the customs.

Here I searched for it in KJV,
Matthew:
{7:6} He answered and said
unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites,
as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips,
but their heart is far from me. {7:7} Howbeit in vain do they
worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of
men. {7:8} For laying aside the commandment of God, ye
hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups:
and many other such like things ye do. {7:9} And he said
unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God,
that ye may keep your own tradition. {7:10} For Moses
said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth
father or mother, let him die the death: {7:11} But ye say, If
a man shall say to his father or mother, [It is] Corban, that is
to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by
me; [he shall be free. ]{7:12} And ye suffer him no more to
do ought for his father or his mother; {7:13} Making the
word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye
have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

 

[sawdust]

I am talking about Church structure and you are talking about individualism. And even though the individual should match the Church structure. It's blatantly clear that I believe the Church of today should resemble the Church in the Book of Acts and you believe it should have evolved into the structure we are at. But if we compare the two it's as opposite as night is from day. And I don't believe God can be found in 90% of the Protestant Movement today and most members won't make it to Heaven.

What I bolded, I never said, that's your assumption of what I meant by having mature pastors who can teach both the elemental doctrines and the meat of the word. I also am not talking about individualism. The Church in the Book of Acts was in it's fledgling stages. Christ's death and Resurrection introduced a whole new way of living. They had to learn things that were not in the OT, hence the gifts of prophecy and knowledge. They were needed then, now we have the written word, all the Lord needs to say to us for "walking the walk" and what is to come, has been said.

John 4:23
But a time is coming—and now is here—when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers.

Coming, because the Church would begin soon and was now, because Christ showed us the prototype of how we would be living in the Church age. ie. by grace through faith in the power of the Spirit.


You even said the Church was "established" (post#275) upon the apostles teaching which, is exactly what I have been saying all along because the scripture says it.

Ephesians 2:20
because you have been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone.

You don't continually establish something once it is done or lay foundations all the way up the building. It's foundation will not look different but the building ought to be growing and changing corporately as well as individually.

The whole purpose of Paul writing 1Cor.13 was to teach the "exuberant" Corinthians (and anyone who would follow their way of thinking) there was a purpose to the gifts and it was to help you grow to be the Church who abide by faith, hope and love. As a Church, whether it is universal or our local congregation, the mark of maturity is not how many gifts are operating, but how faithful are we to the word, how confident are we in God's promise and how well do we love each other and the unsaved. If we are truly growing to maturity we ought to see the gifts less and less as they are needed less and less.

Unless you have worshiped in 90% of the worldwide congregations, I don't put much stock in your opinion and I'm sure the Lord doesn't need it either as He knows who are His. I'm grateful the Lord has led me to a local Church that takes the word of the Lord seriously and endeavours to apply His truth to their lives. They readily recognise the gifts and talents of the congregation and try to encourage all.

 

[Seasons]

“Cumple la semana de esta, y se te dará también la otra, por el servicio que hagas conmigo otros siete años.”
‭‭Génesis‬ ‭29‬:‭27‬ ‭RVR1960‬‬
https://bible.com/bible/149/gen.29.27.RVR1960

 

[lrs68]

Irs68. The took the church and changed it so it would fit what they wanted. I am not certain but I think there was a scripture on it. What was, customs. Jesus talking about eating with unwashed hands. Changing the customs.

Here I searched for it in KJV,
Matthew:
{7:6} He answered and said
unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites,
as it is written, This people honoureth me with [their] lips,
but their heart is far from me. {7:7} Howbeit in vain do they
worship me, teaching [for] doctrines the commandments of
men. {7:8} For laying aside the commandment of God, ye
hold the tradition of men, [as] the washing of pots and cups:
and many other such like things ye do. {7:9} And he said
unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God,
that ye may keep your own tradition. {7:10} For Moses
said, Honour thy father and thy mother; and, Whoso curseth
father or mother, let him die the death: {7:11} But ye say, If
a man shall say to his father or mother, [It is] Corban, that is
to say, a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by
me; [he shall be free. ]{7:12} And ye suffer him no more to
do ought for his father or his mother; {7:13} Making the
word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye
have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Amen!

 

[lrs68]

What I bolded, I never said, that's your assumption of what I meant by having mature pastors who can teach both the elemental doctrines and the meat of the word. I also am not talking about individualism. The Church in the Book of Acts was in it's fledgling stages. Christ's death and Resurrection introduced a whole new way of living. They had to learn things that were not in the OT, hence the gifts of prophecy and knowledge. They were needed then, now we have the written word, all the Lord needs to say to us for "walking the walk" and what is to come, has been said.

John 4:23
But a time is coming—and now is here—when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth, for the Father seeks such people to be his worshipers.

Coming, because the Church would begin soon and was now, because Christ showed us the prototype of how we would be living in the Church age. ie. by grace through faith in the power of the Spirit.


You even said the Church was "established" (post#275) upon the apostles teaching which, is exactly what I have been saying all along because the scripture says it.

Ephesians 2:20
because you have been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the cornerstone.

You don't continually establish something once it is done or lay foundations all the way up the building. It's foundation will not look different but the building ought to be growing and changing corporately as well as individually.

The whole purpose of Paul writing 1Cor.13 was to teach the "exuberant" Corinthians (and anyone who would follow their way of thinking) there was a purpose to the gifts and it was to help you grow to be the Church who abide by faith, hope and love. As a Church, whether it is universal or our local congregation, the mark of maturity is not how many gifts are operating, but how faithful are we to the word, how confident are we in God's promise and how well do we love each other and the unsaved. If we are truly growing to maturity we ought to see the gifts less and less as they are needed less and less.

Unless you have worshiped in 90% of the worldwide congregations, I don't put much stock in your opinion and I'm sure the Lord doesn't need it either as He knows who are His. I'm grateful the Lord has led me to a local Church that takes the word of the Lord seriously and endeavours to apply His truth to their lives. They readily recognise the gifts and talents of the congregation and try to encourage all.

The point is that you operate the local Church as it was operated in the Book of Acts.

 

[sawdust]

The point is that you operate the local Church as it was operated in the Book of Acts.

No, the point is it must grow and change and not remain the same which is what you originally claimed.

 

[lrs68]

No, the point is it must grow and change and not remain the same which is what you originally claimed.

The original was not broken and worked the best. Evolving past that is following man made idealism.

 

[sawdust]

The original was not broken and worked the best. Evolving past that is following man made idealism.

No-one said it was. The irony is, if you had kept your comments strictly to how it is structured, we would not be having this conversation but you asked where in scripture does it say and I quote, "would stop being like the original Church". Have you read the letters in Revelation, even there, from Christ's own mouth, comes the need for change.

I think it is clear you are not careful with your words before you speak nor do you listen to what others say. To suggest that I am advocating some "modern idealism" for the growth of the Church from all I have said is ludicrous.

You want the Church where you are to look like Corinth? Be my guest, see how far it gets you.

 

[Brasspen]

So I think it's important that I say here in this thread, That I do not believe there is going to be a revival. Someone told me something on worth christian chat, and that is who I believe on the subject.

Second, the prophecy I had asked for confirmation on said, 'The worlds last chance is coming.' I do not believe it would be a 'last chance'. I know this because of the word of god.

 

[Dino246]

You bet they do. But those gifts preach and teach the mind of Christ. No need to use "signs and wonders"to prove His word .

Paul disagrees with you:

1 Corinthians 2:4-5 My message and my preaching were not with wise and persuasive words, but with a demonstration of the Spirit’s power, so that your faith might not rest on human wisdom, but on God’s power.

 

[Dino246]

Do you honestly believe when we see Christ face to face that all further knowledge of Him will stop? That our relationship will not continue to grow and develop?

The context is the gifts; "knowledge" is not one of them, but the word of knowledge is.

There is nothing you can say (prophecy) or know (knowledge) regarding Christ that cannot be found in the scriptures.

You just contradicted your own words (above).

As for the gift of tongues, it was a warning gift aimed at the nation of Israel. Their Messiah had come and they (as a nation) had rejected Him. When Jerusalem fell in 70AD, there was no longer any need to warn them, this is why a different word is used for the ceasing of tongues as compared to the other two gifts. With the other two, they could fade out gradually as the written word was disseminated.

An interesting but unproveable theory.

 

[Dino246]

The gift of knowledge was never about our personal or corporate understanding. It is given to teach the things of God that were not covered in the OT especially regarding the Church.

And, you just contradicted yourself again.

By the way, you're dead wrong on this. Clearly you have no firsthand experience with this gift, so you have either invented or adopted a cessationist misinterpretation.

 

[sawdust]

An interesting but unproveable theory.

Not according to Paul's words.

1 Corinthians 14:21
It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord.

He is referencing Isaiah 28:11. It was a warning to Israel then as it was a warning to them when the nation rejected the Messiah.

And, you just contradicted yourself again.

By the way, you're dead wrong on this. Clearly you have no firsthand experience with this gift, so you have either invented or adopted a cessationist misinterpretation.

I already explained this. Clearly you do not understand the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

 

[Magenta]

1 Peter 2:7-8 To you who believe, then, this stone is precious. But to those who do not believe, “The stone the builders rejected has become the cornerstone,” and, “A stone of stumbling and a rock of offense.” They stumble because they disobey the word- and to this they were appointed.

 

[ResidentAlien]

The gifts continue; but that's not the real question. People should be asking if all the signs and wonders they see are genuine or manufactured. Just because God has not cancelled the sign gifts, that doesn't mean they are still active at this time.

 

[Dino246]

Not according to Paul's words.

1 Corinthians 14:21
It is written in the law: “By people with strange tongues and by the lips of strangers I will speak to this people, yet not even in this way will they listen to me,” says the Lord.

He is referencing Isaiah 28:11. It was a warning to Israel then as it was a warning to them when the nation rejected the Messiah.

Yes, as it pertains to the Isaiah quote, but for that to be all-encompassing as you imply, you must account for why the gift was given to Gentiles in the absence of unsaved Jews (see Acts 10).

I already explained this.

If you explained it in a previous post, then just reference the post.

Clearly you do not understand the difference between knowledge and wisdom.

Bahaha! I'm sure you'd like to believe that, as it would justify your dismissal of my comments. However, the truth is that I understand very well the distinction between them, both in regular usage and in terms of the gifts.

 

[Brasspen]

YOUR OFF TOPIC.

 

[Dino246]

YOUR OFF TOPIC.

My off topic?

The word is "you're" which is a contraction of "you are". "Your" is the second-person possessive pronoun.

As for being off topic, that's pretty typical with any thread dealing with charismatic subjects. Get over it.

 

[Brasspen]

The thread is about the prophecy in the very first post. Not about this fight everyone is having.