Speaking in Tongues

[shittim]

there seems to be a dividing point where there is no protection if we do it to ourselves, I was working changing a 400 amp 3 phase panel, 2k+ amp capacity. in a high rise, I accidently touched the live buss bar that fed the panel without getting zapped.
I felt my hand touch it and I knew what I had done without harm.
I DIDN'T do it twice just to see what would happen.
We have all had close calls, the devil would like to take us ALL out if he could, if everything were a flip of the coin, 50/50, alive or dead, most of us wouldn't be here.

 

[Wansvic]

Thank you for posting these scriptures as they magnify the truth that a person is Born Again by the Spirit of God thru hearing/believing the Word/Gospel, whereas Baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate but can occur at the same time.

You just provided the scriptural evidence for the FIRST Promise of the Father and the SECOND Promise.

Thank You

You say a person is instantly born again upon hearing/believing the gospel message. Scripture proves being born again is a process that includes belief and obedience to the command to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus and receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Jesus mentioned this. (John 3:5) And numerous experiential scriptures confirm it. (Acts 2:2-4, 38-41; 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)

The Samaritan account confirms what must occur in order for a person to be born again/receive the spiritual rebirth. The account parallels what was stated by Peter on the Day of Pentecost. (Act 2:36-42) Even after hearing and believing the gospel message and obeying the command to be baptized in water, the group had not been indwelt by the Holy Ghost. According to Paul all must experience receiving the Holy Ghost. (Rom. 8:9-11) Ask yourself how Philip knew the group had not yet received the Holy Ghost. And why Peter and John were sent days later to assist in the Samaritan's receiving the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-18)

 

[Wansvic]

Also, let's don't skip over the part that says they believed and were baptized.... this matches exactly with what Peter taught at Pentecost... repent and be baptized, and you WILL receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
It takes belief (hearing first, of course) repentance and baptism.... and we are told we WILL receive the Spirit.

Yes, we are told we will receive the Spirit if we believe the entire message, repent and submit to water baptism in the name of Jesus. However, that does not mean it automatically happens at that precise moment. We see this in the case of the Samaritans. Yes. They did receive the Holy Spirit as promised but it occurred days later. (Acts 8:12-18) All components are required, but the sequence differs as confirmed in scripture.

 

[Wansvic]

what is foolish is the back and forth "he said, she said" kind of arguments. The topic is, of course, a serious topic.... but to argue it back and forth for days turns it into a foolish effort. Let the Word speak for itself, don't use it to beat someone to death with. The Word is pretty plain about how to receive the Spirit. Read Acts 2:38, and look at the example of those that were baptized into John's baptism and didn't receive the Spirit.
If a person refuses to read and believe that for what it says, then arguing it back and forth for days is simply foolish.

I do not see discussion as arguing. Listening to each other's viewpoints prompts further study in many cases. At times those things we understand to be true, or in many cases have accepted from others cannot be backed up in scripture. Brings to mind 2 Tim. 3:16:

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

 

[Wansvic]

To your first question = We (make sure you see 'We') cause harm to others when we speak words that offend and can cause harm (not speaking of physical threats).

Please read what Jesus said to Nicodemus and dwell on this as well as what God did beginning in Genesis.

Peace and i hope you take this in prayer to the Lord.

What Jesus said to Nicodemus lines up with scriptures that give details relative to the NT spiritual rebirth. All involve water and Spirit; see Acts 2:2-4, 36-42; 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16.

 

[DavidTree]

You say a person is instantly born again upon hearing/believing the gospel message. Scripture proves being born again is a process that includes belief and obedience to the command to be baptized in water in the name of the Lord Jesus and receiving the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Jesus mentioned this. (John 3:5) And numerous experiential scriptures confirm it. (Acts 2:2-4, 38-41; 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7)

The Samaritan account confirms what must occur in order for a person to be born again/receive the spiritual rebirth. The account parallels what was stated by Peter on the Day of Pentecost. (Act 2:36-42) Even after hearing and believing the gospel message and obeying the command to be baptized in water, the group had not been indwelt by the Holy Ghost. According to Paul all must experience receiving the Holy Ghost. (Rom. 8:9-11) Ask yourself how Philip knew the group had not yet received the Holy Ghost. And why Peter and John were sent days later to assist in the Samaritan's receiving the Holy Ghost. (Acts 8:12-18)

#1. NEVER said instantly = You said this so PLEASE refrain from adding to my words and especially God's.

#2. Today, many people are saved before their water baptism = myself being one who attests to this truth.

#3. There is a specific reason why the Apostles were first given the authority to water baptize and also minister the Baptism of the Holyu Spirit.

 

[wattie]

This is another highly debated topic amongst Christian denominations.
I grew up Baptist and they always said it's not a real thing
I used to attending on the nominational church and I would hear people doing it so is it real or are they faking?

I grew up methodist and charismatic, then now am baptist non-charis.

The difference?

The experiences I had as a charismatic were highly subjective. The difference between what I was doing with tongues and my heightened emotions was very little different to new age stuff a got into for a few years.

Being a Baptist.. I've learned objectivity and what really the Bible defines things as.

That is the difference

 

[DavidTree]

What Jesus said to Nicodemus lines up with scriptures that give details relative to the NT spiritual rebirth. All involve water and Spirit; see Acts 2:2-4, 36-42; 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16.

Please read carefully what the Lord said to Nicodemus.
Our LORD made an very distinct and important statement to Nic about being 'born again'.

 

[Beckie]

This is another highly debated topic amongst Christian denominations.
I grew up Baptist and they always said it's not a real thing
I used to attending on the nominational church and I would hear people doing it so is it real or are they faking?

From my history in the Pentecostal realm i will say both. Some folks will fake anything to fit in . Some are completely honest.

 

[DavidTree]

I grew up methodist and charismatic, then now am baptist non-charis.

The difference?

The experiences I had as a charismatic were highly subjective. The difference between what I was doing with tongues and my heightened emotions was very little different to new age stuff a got into for a few years.

Being a Baptist.. I've learned objectivity and what really the Bible defines things as.

That is the difference

Being a Baptist you adhere to Baptist teaching which is not all Truthful according to the Word.

i know, i was there for many years.

God does not recognize a single denomination = HE only recognizes faith in his Word.

 

[shittim]

The adversary has been tempting from the beginning, he waits for an opportune time. Staying in prayer between He and i is the best way to be in Him I know of.
Our Godly prayers have more and more power as time proceeds to fulfillment.
blessings

 

[Wansvic]

#1. NEVER said instantly = You said this so PLEASE refrain from adding to my words and especially God's.

#2. Today, many people are saved before their water baptism = myself being one who attests to this truth.

#3. There is a specific reason why the Apostles were first given the authority to water baptize and also minister the Baptism of the Holyu Spirit.

I apologize, evidently I misunderstood. I was responding to your comment concerning 2 promises. This led me to understand that you believe you get the Holy Ghost the moment you believe, and then afterwards at some point you receive the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. I personally don't see this in scripture.

Your words:
"Thank you for posting these scriptures as they magnify the truth that a person is Born Again by the Spirit of God thru hearing/believing the Word/Gospel, whereas Baptism of the Holy Spirit is separate but can occur at the same time.
You just provided the scriptural evidence for the FIRST Promise of the Father and the SECOND Promise."

According to the first message given on the Day of Pentecost those who believe in Jesus' death, burial and resurrection, will repent, and obey the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. (Acts 2:35-42)Those who do this can expect to receive (be indwelt with) the Holy Ghost. Scripture confirms all those who believed and responded to the entire message ultimately received the promised gift; the Holy Ghost. The only thing that differed at times was the sequence in which it occurred.

 

[DJT_47]

I trust the Church Fathers view based on the fact a couple on the quick list I provided personally knew the Apostle John when he took over the Church at Ephesus, the one Paul started.

John had more insight than any of them and if the Church Fathers make the claim they did then it is what John taught them and assured them that is what Paul meant.

That's fine believe whatvyoy like a trust who you will; but personally, I rely on solely the word of God and my own intellect and God given ability to read and understand as well as anyone. Goodbye

#1. NEVER said instantly = You said this so PLEASE refrain from adding to my words and especially God's.

#2. Today, many people are saved before their water baptism = myself being one who attests to this truth.

#3. There is a specific reason why the Apostles were first given the authority to water baptize and also minister the Baptism of the Holyu Spirit.

You cannot be saved while yet being in sin, so, there's no way you can be saved prior to being baptized. Not according to scripture unless you ignotr or don't believe them. Explain away these two scriptures.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

 

[DavidTree]

That's fine believe whatvyoy like a trust who you will; but personally, I rely on solely the word of God and my own intellect and God given ability to read and understand as well as anyone. Goodbye

You cannot be saved while yet being in sin, so, there's no way you can be saved prior to being baptized. Not according to scripture unless you ignotr or don't believe them. Explain away these two scriptures.

Acts 2:38

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Acts 22:16

16And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord.

i am assuming you never read Genesis ???

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

the fact that Paul was bitten and did not die is the ONLY instance noted of this happening.... so to put this in as a definite "sign" that will accompany believers makes this passage questionable at best.

in the Book of John it makes this claim: 25 There are also many other things that Yeshua did. If all of them were to be written one by one, I suppose that not even the world itself will have room for the books being written!

so let's put John 21:25 in perspective with your point of only Paul being mentioned about being snake bit and lived.

there's probably thousands of things that happened after the Ascension of Christ and the Holy Spirit arrived that were not written and we won't know until we're in Heaven. the fact is, Paul was bitten and his Faith in Christ healed him. we have that same promise.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

That is simply not what that scripture says.
It says that being able to drink poison and not die will be a sign to unbelievers... it is a sign that the person who can do that is a believer. It's a SIGN..... Doing it as a sign to unbelievers is not tempting God, it's PROVING God.....

i disagree and believe you are just playing the devil's advocate here.

if a Christian today was poisoned by no doing of their own and their Faith in Christ healed them, you don't think to an UNBELIEVER that is not a SIGN?

they can show witness of being poisoned and not needing medical help and God healed them when they should be dead??
^
you don't think that is a SIGN to anyone Believer or Unbeliever?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

That's fine believe whatvyoy like a trust who you will; but personally, I rely on solely the word of God and my own intellect and God given ability to read and understand as well as anyone. Goodbye

so are they!

they know the [[Perfect to Come]] has nothing to do with the Written Word, but when Jesus appears to us in His true Glory!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

there seems to be a dividing point where there is no protection if we do it to ourselves, I was working changing a 400 amp 3 phase panel, 2k+ amp capacity. in a high rise, I accidently touched the live buss bar that fed the panel without getting zapped.
I felt my hand touch it and I knew what I had done without harm.
I DIDN'T do it twice just to see what would happen.
We have all had close calls, the devil would like to take us ALL out if he could, if everything were a flip of the coin, 50/50, alive or dead, most of us wouldn't be here.

Praise God.

you should have been knocked stone cold out like a heavyweight right hook and never got back up.

3-Phase is no joke!

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Being a Baptist you adhere to Baptist teaching which is not all Truthful according to the Word.

i know, i was there for many years.

God does not recognize a single denomination = HE only recognizes faith in his Word.

Amen!

i was born into a Southern Baptist Church whose Pastor and several members were KKK [1960's]

they would participate in literal murder and come to church and preach OSAS

i remember going back about 25 years ago after doing much research on Josephus and Paul and asking them if it stunk for them knowing Jesus and Paul were basically Black?

you could see the flames of Hell swelling up in their eyes.

that was a Beautiful Day!

 

[hornetguy]

Jesus response to something similar was, "...It is written...Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God."

"Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple, And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God." Matt. 4:5-7

And you are comparing apples to tennis racquets.
Jesus was being tempted by Satan to end his suffering, or to be "given" the world.

According to those that use the Mark passages for "proof" of tongues, the drinking of poison and handling of snakes is SUPPOSED to be done, to prove the indwelling Spirit. They are SIGNS.... what about that do you not understand?

Why would you be afraid to do that, if you believe they are signs? Or do you only want to do the "easy" signs... those that cannot be actually proven? Oh, look... I'm spouting gibberish, I have the Spirit! According to that scripture, you should also drink poison and handle deadly snakes and not be harmed.... show the unbelievers REAL proof.

I fully believe that God can, and will do miraculous things through His people, when needed. I do not limit what the Spirit can enable us to do...
But to take this ONE "scripture" and hang a belief system on it, is foolish. Go big or go home. If you demonstrate part of it, you MUST demonstrate all of it, or it is worthless.

Or, simply admit that these verses were VERY likely added in by some overzealous scribe that didn't like the way Mark just stopped his narrative.

All the other narratives are so similar, basically same stories told, same miracles, all of that. This ending of Mark is the ONLY place these "signs" are mentioned.