Rev 11, The (Two Witnesses) Will Rule The Tribulation By Plagues And God's Judgement
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The Church is present on earth to witness the Antichrist revealed
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The Church will be present on earth to witness Jerusalem surrounded by armies Rev 11:2, and see Jesus Christ return in the clouds of heaven
(Look Up, Your Redemption Draweth Nigh)
Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
The Lord is speaking to the Church present on earth, regarding their divine protection, as (The Beast) is revealed.
Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
The Church will be present on earth to witness Jerusalem surrounded by armies Rev 11:2, and see Jesus Christ return in the clouds of heaven
(Look Up, Your Redemption Draweth Nigh)
Revelation 11:2KJV
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Luke 21:24-28KJV
24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
26 Men's hearts failing them for fear, and for looking after those things which are coming on the earth: for the powers of heaven shall be shaken.
27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
The Lord is speaking to the Church present on earth, regarding their divine protection, as (The Beast) is revealed.
Revelation 13:9-10KJV
9 If any man have an ear, let him hear.
10 He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints.
Those that believe and teach (Historicism) dont believe that the (Two Witnesses) or (Plagues) seen below are (Literal) as they disregard giving a (Direct Response) regarding these plagues, the world seen watching, bodies being killed, a street in Jerusalem, people exchanging gifts, bodies raising to heaven, a great earthquake, (Complete Silence)
Many will claim the plagues of Moses/Aaron in Egypt were literal, but deny Revelation Chapters 11 & 16 as future literal prophets returned or literal plagues are seen?
Revelation 11:3-6KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
Many will claim the plagues of Moses/Aaron in Egypt were literal, but deny Revelation Chapters 11 & 16 as future literal prophets returned or literal plagues are seen?
Revelation 11:3-6KJV
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
Revelation 16:1-11KJV
1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.
2 And the first went, and poured out his vial upon the earth; and there fell a noisome and grievous sore upon the men which had the mark of the beast, and upon them which worshipped his image.
3 And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea.
4 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood.
5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus.
6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.
7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous are thy judgments.
8 And the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and power was given unto him to scorch men with fire.
9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.
10 And the fifth angel poured out his vial upon the seat of the beast; and his kingdom was full of darkness; and they gnawed their tongues for pain,
11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.
I am not sure what historicism is but I am not sure how anyone can not tell these are two literal prophets and plagues I don't know if that is a belief in historicism but it seems prett bacl and white.
Them breathing fire for protection though is where I am kind of uncertain I can't imagine God would allow any harm to come to them in which they would need to defend themselves.
Them breathing fire for protection though is where I am kind of uncertain I can't imagine God would allow any harm to come to them in which they would need to defend themselves.
No they aren't going to be literal fire breathing dragons, smiles!
The Two Witnesses will kill the enemy by Fire from their mouth?
This fire is brought by their (Words/Mouth), just like when Elijah called fire from heaven, destroying the enemy, 1 Kings 18:25-40
Revelation 11:5KJV
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
1 Kings 18:35-38KJV
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
The Two Witnesses will kill the enemy by Fire from their mouth?
This fire is brought by their (Words/Mouth), just like when Elijah called fire from heaven, destroying the enemy, 1 Kings 18:25-40
Revelation 11:5KJV
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
1 Kings 18:35-38KJV
36 And it came to pass at the time of the offering of the evening sacrifice, that Elijah the prophet came near, and said, Lord God of Abraham, Isaac, and of Israel, let it be known this day that thou art God in Israel, and that I am thy servant, and that I have done all these things at thy word.
37 Hear me, O Lord, hear me, that this people may know that thou art the Lord God, and that thou hast turned their heart back again.
38 Then the fire of the Lord fell, and consumed the burnt sacrifice, and the wood, and the stones, and the dust, and licked up the water that was in the trench.
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Don't worry. It may take a while but eventually you will come around and understand that the pretrib rapture is scripturally boilerplate. Every time you post on this particular matter I can see instantaneously that you are in error and exactly why you are in error.
The failure among Christians is to not understand Old Testament Jewish patterns, Also a failure in understanding of the Jewish wedding ceremony procedures and protocols and how the Church fits into this perfectly.
This is clearly indicated by Jesus and John 14:2-3.
In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, that where I am, you may be also.
Here Jesus is unquestionably describing a Jewish wedding ceremony protocol. His bride (selected/elected/chosen by the Father) will NOT see tribulation.
Rev 3:10
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
The saints are coming WITH Jesus at the Second Coming. The primary reason for the second coming is the final and ultimate redemption of Israel. The Church has already been redeemed at the rapture. Yes there are gentiles that are being saved during the tribulation period but they are a specific group called the Tribulation Saints. Though they are truly redeemed they are a separate group from the Church and a separate group from Israel.
https://www.gotquestions.org/tribulation-saints.html
Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Zech 14:5
5 And you shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal: yes, you shall flee, like you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with you.
1 Thess 3:13
13 To the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
The failure among Christians is to not understand Old Testament Jewish patterns, Also a failure in understanding of the Jewish wedding ceremony procedures and protocols and how the Church fits into this perfectly.
This is clearly indicated by Jesus and John 14:2-3.
In My Father’s house are many rooms. If it were not so, would I have told you that I am going there to prepare a place for you? And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, that where I am, you may be also.
Here Jesus is unquestionably describing a Jewish wedding ceremony protocol. His bride (selected/elected/chosen by the Father) will NOT see tribulation.
Rev 3:10
Because you have kept My command to persevere, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
The saints are coming WITH Jesus at the Second Coming. The primary reason for the second coming is the final and ultimate redemption of Israel. The Church has already been redeemed at the rapture. Yes there are gentiles that are being saved during the tribulation period but they are a specific group called the Tribulation Saints. Though they are truly redeemed they are a separate group from the Church and a separate group from Israel.
https://www.gotquestions.org/tribulation-saints.html
Jude 1:14
And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,
Zech 14:5
5 And you shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach to Azal: yes, you shall flee, like you fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with you.
1 Thess 3:13
13 To the end he may establish your hearts blameless in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints.
Many quote Revelation 3:10, suggesting the church is raptured to heaven, to escape the hour of temptation?
1.) How will the synagogue of satan worship at the churches feet, if they are raptured to heaven?
2.) Why is the church exhorted on the second coming (Behold I Come Quickly) if they are raptured to heaven?
3.) How does the church (Overcome) if they are raptured away to heaven?
As is clearly seen, the claim this represents a pre-trib rapture is false.
Revelation 3:9-12KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
As seen below, the church will escape the (Hour Of Temptation) seen in Rev 3:10 during the tribulation, that will come upon the earth, the instruction is to enter the dwelling/home and close the door, just like the passover in Egypt
Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
1.) How will the synagogue of satan worship at the churches feet, if they are raptured to heaven?
2.) Why is the church exhorted on the second coming (Behold I Come Quickly) if they are raptured to heaven?
3.) How does the church (Overcome) if they are raptured away to heaven?
As is clearly seen, the claim this represents a pre-trib rapture is false.
Revelation 3:9-12KJV
9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee.
10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
11 Behold, I come quickly: hold that fast which thou hast, that no man take thy crown.
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
As seen below, the church will escape the (Hour Of Temptation) seen in Rev 3:10 during the tribulation, that will come upon the earth, the instruction is to enter the dwelling/home and close the door, just like the passover in Egypt
Isaiah 26:20-21KJV
20 Come, my people, enter thou into thy chambers, and shut thy doors about thee: hide thyself as it were for a little moment, until the indignation be overpast.
21 For, behold, the Lord cometh out of his place to punish the inhabitants of the earth for their iniquity: the earth also shall disclose her blood, and shall no more cover her slain.
Your correct, you follow John N Darby & C.I Scofield in (dispensationalism)
This teaching does nothing more than use verses that show the (Second Coming) and it falsely claims a pre-trib rapture.
The verses below shows the church present on earth to witness the Antichrist revealed, you falsely claim the church is in heaven, no need to look at another verse in the bible, your pre-trib rapture is (GONE)
Are you that man seen below?
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
This teaching does nothing more than use verses that show the (Second Coming) and it falsely claims a pre-trib rapture.
The verses below shows the church present on earth to witness the Antichrist revealed, you falsely claim the church is in heaven, no need to look at another verse in the bible, your pre-trib rapture is (GONE)
Are you that man seen below?
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
In the scripture below, do you see the church present on earth to witness the (Antichrist/Man of Sin) being revealed?
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Your claim is (False) as the words were written from the Apostles to the Church of the Thessalonians, the (You) seen below is the Church.
1 Thessalonians 1:1KJV
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
1 Thessalonians 1:1KJV
1 Paul, and Silvanus, and Timotheus, unto the church of the Thessalonians which is in God the Father and in the Lord Jesus Christ: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
(Let No Man Deceive You By Any Means)
2 Thessalonians 2:3-4KJV
3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Yes but since he is speaking of things that are in our near future but was saying this to the Thessolonians then this is why I do not see the church in this verse. And it also doesn't say the church in general will see the antichrist present it says that this day will not come until there is a falling away
Isa 26:20-21 concatenates with the pretrib rapture. Read the book of Ruth understand the identity of the main characters, the Jewish wedding ceremony and you will understand the rapture as well.
2 Thess 2 ......The correct terminology is departure and not apostasy. The departure a.k.a. rapture occurs before the man of sin is revealed. In fact when the Bible says that no one knows the day or the hour that is another indication of the wedding ceremony pattern. Nobody knows because only the Father in his sovereign discretion will advise the Son that the house is completed and then tells His Son to go to take his bride because the home is finished. Furthermore God has kept the precise time of the rapture a complete secret from Eeveryone including Satan and he will never know. When you fully understand end time eschatology and the rapture you come to the realization that firstly the bride is raptured, And then the tribulation week begins in heaven....
....When the Son takes the seven sealed scroll from the Father. No man knows the day or the hour because this incident occurs in heaven again at the discretion of the Father.
Clearly the Church in heaven in Revelation chapter 4 & 5. Clearly. Just read the text.
2 Thess 2 ......The correct terminology is departure and not apostasy. The departure a.k.a. rapture occurs before the man of sin is revealed. In fact when the Bible says that no one knows the day or the hour that is another indication of the wedding ceremony pattern. Nobody knows because only the Father in his sovereign discretion will advise the Son that the house is completed and then tells His Son to go to take his bride because the home is finished. Furthermore God has kept the precise time of the rapture a complete secret from Eeveryone including Satan and he will never know. When you fully understand end time eschatology and the rapture you come to the realization that firstly the bride is raptured, And then the tribulation week begins in heaven....
....When the Son takes the seven sealed scroll from the Father. No man knows the day or the hour because this incident occurs in heaven again at the discretion of the Father.
Clearly the Church in heaven in Revelation chapter 4 & 5. Clearly. Just read the text.
Yes, I do believe Elijah called down literal fire down, but Jesus rebuked James and John for asking if they should call fire down as Elijah did and told them,
the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them Lk.9:56
Jesus commanded his ministers to love our enemies. I'll explain the killing by fire below.
The fire will kill them later at judgement day,
Is not my word likeas a fire? saith the LORD Jer.23:29
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jn.12:48
And to our Lord's ministers,
He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me. Lk.10:16
No follower of Christ kills.
the Son of man is not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them Lk.9:56
Jesus commanded his ministers to love our enemies. I'll explain the killing by fire below.
The fire will kill them later at judgement day,
Is not my word likeas a fire? saith the LORD Jer.23:29
He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day. Jn.12:48
And to our Lord's ministers,
He that heareth you heareth me; and he that despiseth you despiseth me; and he that despiseth me despiseth him that sent me. Lk.10:16
No follower of Christ kills.
(Departure AKA Rapture)?
Your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture is 100% (False)
The Greek word used is (Apostasia), the root word for the English word (Apostasy) as Strongs below defines this as (Defection From The Truth)
Amazing how far one will go in (Defecting From Truth) Apostasy
Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia
Strong's
Red Letter
ἀποστασία
Transliteration
apostasia (Key)
Pronunciation
ä-po-stä-se'-ä (Key)
LISTEN
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647)
Greek Inflections of ἀποστασία
Dictionary Aids
Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.
Your claim of a pre-tribulation rapture is 100% (False)
The Greek word used is (Apostasia), the root word for the English word (Apostasy) as Strongs below defines this as (Defection From The Truth)
Amazing how far one will go in (Defecting From Truth) Apostasy
Lexicon :: Strong's G646 - apostasia
Strong's
Red Letter
ἀποστασία
Transliteration
apostasia (Key)
Pronunciation
ä-po-stä-se'-ä (Key)
LISTEN
Part of Speech
feminine noun
Root Word (Etymology)
Feminine of the same as ἀποστάσιον (G647)
Greek Inflections of ἀποστασία
Dictionary Aids
Strong’s Definitions
ἀποστασία apostasía, ap-os-tas-ee'-ah; feminine of the same as G647; defection from truth (properly, the state) ("apostasy"):—falling away, forsake.
You're missing the point my friend. It doesn't matter whether millions of believers are persecuted, or just one believer. It doesn't matter whether the final beast does the persecuting, or a beast from the past. What matters is the revelation of Jesus Christ and believers from every period knew him,
for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Mt.5:12
for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Mt.5:12