Reject man-made works and election religions, but instead : -
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I should have made it clearer. Rather than earning salvation by 'works' (Jesus did that) this thread is about living a Holy and Righteous life to the end that is pleasing to God, so that when we meet the Lord face to face he will say to us "well done my good and faithful servant." He will not say that unless we remain faithful to the end, and in this way we can be sure of our election. So, do that and you are home and dry. It is what King David did. God bless.
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I don't know about that.
Before He showed me His Love for me I didn't love Him.
But after I was shown I couldn't help but love Him back. Probably not as much as He first loved me.
1 John 4:9-10
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
If I didn't love God, but then God revealed Himself and then I did start loving God then He kind of did force me to worship Him.
I wasn't worshipping Him before, but now I am and its because of Him not because of me.
That has to be a manipulation.
But a manipulation and forcing me to do something that I am now thankful for. Extremely thankful for.
Thank you Lord, for pulling me out of my stupidity and my own way, and showing me Your Way and Truth.
I don't think we have the capacity to Love God until God gives us that gift. But most of you already know I believe that. When we think of the "Have to's" as gifts from God then we can understand Rest.
Before He showed me His Love for me I didn't love Him.
But after I was shown I couldn't help but love Him back. Probably not as much as He first loved me.
1 John 4:9-10
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.
If I didn't love God, but then God revealed Himself and then I did start loving God then He kind of did force me to worship Him.
I wasn't worshipping Him before, but now I am and its because of Him not because of me.
That has to be a manipulation.
But a manipulation and forcing me to do something that I am now thankful for. Extremely thankful for.
Thank you Lord, for pulling me out of my stupidity and my own way, and showing me Your Way and Truth.
I don't think we have the capacity to Love God until God gives us that gift. But most of you already know I believe that. When we think of the "Have to's" as gifts from God then we can understand Rest.
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Very well stated sir! 
I have striven for several years, in trying to "plead" this very argument, you have just put forth in my own words, just to have "show me in the Bible", thrown at me, in the hopes of "burying" me, or, on other occasions, jez flat out ignored.
So now, instead of "saying it in my own words", I use "scripture only", in "pleading" my case. Just to have "you've taken that verse out of its "properly positioned context." Which is of course? Horse hockey!
But, you are correct! We all seem to have step #1 of your argument, down pretty well.
"The rub" comes with those who go from step 1, right into step 3!
And it just DOESN'T "work" THAT way!
In essence, and reality? It's these people here:
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: (end of quote)
Mocking and scoffing those doing step 2. Making their "false" accusations of: "yer working to earn, or maintain your salvation", being called "legalists", "judeizers", "hebrew roots", among other "easily pigeon holed (prejudged), and just as easily, scoffed, mocked, and dismissed" monikers!
And, to my knowledge, I have not condemned those in step 1. Just those who have bypassed step 2, right into step 3, by "exposing the lies and falsehood", they have been made to believe! (can you say delusion/s?)
I "USED" to be "like" those, who mock and scoff ones like myself now!
Until the Father did THIS some 35+ years ago!: After I finally "answered His call!"
Isaiah 28
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
.....And there I was! In the palm of His hand! My beating heart and mind! While the "rest" of me was like so much melted protoplasm spreading out a little thicker then melted wax from a candle.
And Just as Jesus' sheep know His voice?
The Fathers' Priests know His voice as well!
But, that hits pretty close to the "U" and "P" in "tulip." While "traversing and travailing" through step 2? You start seeing the "T" and the "I." The "I" being the part where the Father sez: "You don't have to like it!" Which is when I said: Yer gonna have to drag me kickin' and clawin' every step of the way!" To which He said: "GOOD!" "That's the WAY I like 'em!"
Meaning? I HAD "no choice" in the matter!
Ya see? His WORD does not go out from Him, and return VOID!
Cuz, "void" is not a word in His vocabulary!
I have since "learned", or have "worked out my salvation" through "fear (abject) and fear (reverencing/trembling)."
And, have come to realize this:
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And this:
Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
It is "during" the "traversing" of step 2, you "feel" the "abject" fear!
Something, many a proud man cannot ALLOW himself to be taken to, let alone admit to!
And so, "reconcile" themselves to verses 18-20 above.
But? In so doing? They place themselves in jeopardy of being REJECTED by Christ on the LAST day!
What can I say? I'm not WILLING to TAKE "that" chance!
Might I "ask" you Chris1975?
Have you experienced something like this?
I have striven for several years, in trying to "plead" this very argument, you have just put forth in my own words, just to have "show me in the Bible", thrown at me, in the hopes of "burying" me, or, on other occasions, jez flat out ignored.
So now, instead of "saying it in my own words", I use "scripture only", in "pleading" my case. Just to have "you've taken that verse out of its "properly positioned context." Which is of course? Horse hockey!
But, you are correct! We all seem to have step #1 of your argument, down pretty well.
"The rub" comes with those who go from step 1, right into step 3!
And it just DOESN'T "work" THAT way!
In essence, and reality? It's these people here:
Isaiah 28
15 Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: (end of quote)
Mocking and scoffing those doing step 2. Making their "false" accusations of: "yer working to earn, or maintain your salvation", being called "legalists", "judeizers", "hebrew roots", among other "easily pigeon holed (prejudged), and just as easily, scoffed, mocked, and dismissed" monikers!
And, to my knowledge, I have not condemned those in step 1. Just those who have bypassed step 2, right into step 3, by "exposing the lies and falsehood", they have been made to believe! (can you say delusion/s?)
I "USED" to be "like" those, who mock and scoff ones like myself now!
Until the Father did THIS some 35+ years ago!: After I finally "answered His call!"
Isaiah 28
18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.
19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.
20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.
.....And there I was! In the palm of His hand! My beating heart and mind! While the "rest" of me was like so much melted protoplasm spreading out a little thicker then melted wax from a candle.
And Just as Jesus' sheep know His voice?
The Fathers' Priests know His voice as well!
But, that hits pretty close to the "U" and "P" in "tulip." While "traversing and travailing" through step 2? You start seeing the "T" and the "I." The "I" being the part where the Father sez: "You don't have to like it!" Which is when I said: Yer gonna have to drag me kickin' and clawin' every step of the way!" To which He said: "GOOD!" "That's the WAY I like 'em!"
Meaning? I HAD "no choice" in the matter!
Ya see? His WORD does not go out from Him, and return VOID!
Cuz, "void" is not a word in His vocabulary!
I have since "learned", or have "worked out my salvation" through "fear (abject) and fear (reverencing/trembling)."
And, have come to realize this:
Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
And this:
Revelation 2:17
He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
It is "during" the "traversing" of step 2, you "feel" the "abject" fear!
Something, many a proud man cannot ALLOW himself to be taken to, let alone admit to!
And so, "reconcile" themselves to verses 18-20 above.
But? In so doing? They place themselves in jeopardy of being REJECTED by Christ on the LAST day!
What can I say? I'm not WILLING to TAKE "that" chance!
Might I "ask" you Chris1975?
Have you experienced something like this?
Although I didn't quite come through the path that you personally experienced.
I have always known inherently from the start that God is a holy God, and that his people would be called to follow in His ways and likeness (no getting around holiness). We are by original nature very much fallen and without hope. Yet we see throughout the scriptures God calling his people to holiness. How do we reconcile these two points? Jesus is the answer. He washes us clean of all our sins and restores us into relationship with the Father. But to what end? To carrying on just like we used to live?? By no means. We are a new creation, the old has passed away. He has given us His Spirit and by his Grace (power) we can overcome. To leave us waddling in the dirt is in no way a glorification of God. Can God not do this for us? Can he not give us the power by His Spirit to live in victory over the lusts of the flesh? Of course he can. But He is a gentleman, and will not remove our free will in this instance. We are free to choose - live by the Flesh which leads to death, or live by the Spirit which is life. Those who live by the Spirit will by their new nature put to death the misdeeds of the body. It doesn't mean absolute perfection. I think every true believer can point to areas that we have fallen short. But true believers will not enjoy dwelling in the lusts of the flesh. Something has changed within them and what has given them lustful pleasure in the past can no longer give them peace. The conviction will be strong by the Holy Spirit. Consciences will not allow them peace to remain in such a state. The default mode is always towards repentance as opposed to apostacy. That is the characteristic of a true believer.
Like Paul says, forgetting what is behind, we strive for the goal of the upward calling in Christ....
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I see you are relatively new here
you have no obligation to answer people who think they run the place
they don't
you have no obligation to answer people who think they run the place
they don't
its wrong to ask who he was speaking about?
and if we ask, that makes us think we run the place????
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