Proof of a Future Millennial Kingdom

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

First you say..
Then about after the 1000 you say..
It sounds like you're saying God is going to make a new creation twice. Once for the millennium, the again after the millennium.
So he's going to destroy his perfect creation and then make it perfect again?

The millennium pertains to the old creation; 1000 years of rest for it. Then the new creation comes...

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Originally Posted by zone

Why the Early Church Finally Rejected Premillennialism < click

This article is worthless IMO...

 

[doulos]

This article begins with the mischaracterization that the millennial kingdom is temporary...

In comparison to eternity one thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years would be temporary. So how does your statement help promote your belief that the millenial reign is a literal 1000 year period in our future? How does your statement disprove the amil view?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

In comparison to eternity one thousand, two thousand or even three thousand years would be temporary. So how does your statement help promote your belief that the millenial reign is a literal 1000 year period in our future? How does your statement disprove the amil view?

The point was that the author began his article with a mischaracterization of the millennial position. Typically, things just go downhill from there; and in this case they did.

 

[doulos]

The point was that the author began his article with a mischaracterization of the millennial position. Typically, things just go downhill from there; and in this case they did.

How is saying the millenial kingdom is temporary a mischaracterization? As I have already demonstrated reardless of whether the millenial kingdom is a literal 1000 year period as you claim then it would not be a mischaracterization to say it is temporary!

 

[doulos]

The millennium pertains to the old creation; 1000 years of rest for it. Then the new creation comes...

Why give the old creation creation a 1000 year rest just to replace it at the end of the rest? Nonsense!

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

How is saying the millenial kingdom is temporary a mischaracterization? As I have already demonstrated reardless of whether the millenial kingdom is a literal 1000 year period as you claim then it would not be a mischaracterization to say it is temporary!

It's a mischaracterization because Christ's kingdom is eternal; it will never end. The millennium is simply the first 1000 years of his unending earthly reign.

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Why give the old creation creation a 1000 year rest just to replace it at the end of the rest? Nonsense!

Of course it's nonsense to a mind that embraces fantasy as reality.

 

[doulos]

It's a mischaracterization because Christ's kingdom is eternal; it will never end. The millennium is simply the first 1000 years of his unending earthly reign.

So Christs kingdom never ends, He does not give the kingdom up to His Father?

1Co 15:24-28 Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

 

[doulos]

Of course it's nonsense to a mind that embraces fantasy as reality.

And whose mind would that be? Possibly the people that do not believe John was already in Christs kingdom while on Patmos? Or maybe those wgho deny we have already been made kings and priests? Or those that believe Christ reigns forever despite the fact Scripture states Christ rules until He has defeated His enemies at which time He gives the kingdom to His Father and is then subject to His Father?

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

And whose mind would that be? Possibly the people that do not believe John was already in Christs kingdom while on Patmos? Or maybe those wgho deny we have already been made kings and priests? Or those that believe Christ reigns forever despite the fact Scripture states Christ rules until He has defeated His enemies at which time He gives the kingdom to His Father and is then subject to His Father?

I believe all of those things. As far as the last sentence, I will leave this with you and let you resolve it.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14
​

 

[doulos]

I believe all of those things. As far as the last sentence, I will leave this with you and let you resolve it.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14
​

Didn't that kingdom begin in the first century? So how can it still be in our future?

 

[peacefulbeliever]

To the best of my knowledge you have not shown a single verse that contradicts the following verses;
Rev 1:6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen
Rev 5:10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
Being a fallible human being it is possible that I overlooked the verses that supposedly contradict those, would you be kind enough to show us the verses that supposedly contradict the verses I quoted? If Scripture contradicted Scripture wouldn’t that make God a liar? Aren’t the Scriptures the inspired Word of God? How can an unchanging God (Mal3:6 and Heb13:8) contradict Himself?


Can you provide an example of where in Scripture God or Jesus spoke of future events in the past tense?

I would just like to comment on this. There is a figure of speech, heterosis (Prophetic Perfect), used in the Bible where the past tense is used instead of the future to emphasize the certainty of an event.

For instance: Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. . . .He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth., etc. And we see in Acts 8:34 the Ethiopian eunuch was confused as he read, and asked Philip: Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?

Ephesians 2:5,6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Spiritually this has happened but literally I am not seated in heavenly places in Christ. . . I am still living in the world BUT I will be seated together with Christ.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son. . . If I have literally been delivered from the power of darkness. . .why would I be told that I wrestle against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world and to put on the whole armour of God to stand against the wiles of the devil? BUT again I will be literally delivered when I am no longer a part of this world.

The same with the verses from Revelation. . . It is a certainty that we will reign as priests and kings . . . just not yet.

Sorry zone. . . .this was not meant to derail . . . carry on

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

Didn't that kingdom begin in the first century? So how can it still be in our future?

Because it never ends...

 

[zone]

Y'all keep saying the end will come. Nowhere in bible doesn't say there is an end. where do y'all get this stuff from? Lot a folks think that when Jesus returns thats it, but what about God's promise to King David that he would have a son to sit on the throne of Israel forever. Did God miss it, I don't think so.

on David's Throne.

Jesus is that Son of David, and He is currently seated on David's Throne - it's Christ's Throne - in Heaven.

so ya....you missed it.
have you even read through the bible (NT) once?

so he is King now.
is He not ruling the earth now?


Psalm 110
A Psalm of David.
1 The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.”

2 The LORD sends forth from Zion
your mighty scepter.
Rule in the midst of your enemies!


Matthew 22
Whose Son Is the Christ?
41Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet’?

45If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.


Acts 2
29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’

Jesus is King now - Jesus ruling and reigning now - both over and through his Church, and in the midst of His enemies

isn't that what the scriptures prophesied, and didn't Peter say IT WAS FULFILLED (He is Enthroned) WHEN JESUS ROSE AND ASCENDED?

where is He seated?

Psalm 110
A Psalm of David.
1 The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.”

2 The LORD sends forth from Zion
your mighty scepter.
Rule in the midst of your enemies!

Hebrews 10:12-13
But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God ; From henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.


Ephesians 1:20-22
Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set him at his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come : And hath put all things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church

is Jesus seated now FAR above ALL principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come?

doesn't that sound like He is RULING?....in the midst of His enemies as they are being made His footstool?


1 Corinthians 15:24
Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.

do the scriptures SAY: Jesus is reigning now?

 

[zone]

Daniel 2 is fulfilled as well?
is Jesus King now?
(according to Hebrews He can not be both King & Priest on this earth - according to Mosaic Law, right? or no)
so what will He be doing during the 1,000 years?
will He be in a Third Temple?
what kind? will Mosaic Law be reinstituted?
how are ppl saved?



so he is King now.
is He not ruling the earth now?


Psalm 110
A Psalm of David.
1 The LORD says to my Lord:
“Sit at my right hand,
until I make your enemies your footstool.”

2 The LORD sends forth from Zion
your mighty scepter.
Rule in the midst of your enemies!


Matthew 22
Whose Son Is the Christ?
41Now while the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them a question, 42saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose son is he?” They said to him, “The son of David.” 43He said to them, “How is it then that David, in the Spirit, calls him Lord, saying,

44 “‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
until I put your enemies under your feet’?

45If then David calls him Lord, how is he his son?” 46And no one was able to answer him a word, nor from that day did anyone dare to ask him any more questions.


Acts 2
29“Brothers, I may say to you with confidence about the patriarch David that he both died and was buried, and his tomb is with us to this day. 30Being therefore a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him that he would set one of his descendants on his throne, 31he foresaw and spoke about the resurrection of the Christ, that he was not abandoned to Hades, nor did his flesh see corruption. 32This Jesus God raised up, and of that we all are witnesses. 33Being therefore exalted at the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit, he has poured out this that you yourselves are seeing and hearing. 34For David did not ascend into the heavens, but he himself says,

“‘The Lord said to my Lord,
Sit at my right hand,
35 until I make your enemies your footstool.’


Jesus is King now - is Jesus ruling now - both over his Church, and in the midst of His enemies?

.....

"I don't think so. Why would there need to be one? King's rule from thrones in palaces"

so people rebuild Jerusalem (?) and Jesus rules from a Palace?

but the Bible says he is already on "David's Throne", which is His Throne - in Heaven.
doesn't it?



what is the 1,000 years FOR?

seriously....what didn't happen between the first and Second Advent that needs to happen during exactly 1,000 years after that?

where is the church at that time?

what kind of bodies do people have?

are the saints glorified (the first resurrection) while others are still in flesh?

I would just like to comment on this. There is a figure of speech, heterosis (Prophetic Perfect), used in the Bible where the past tense is used instead of the future to emphasize the certainty of an event.

For instance: Isaiah 53:3 He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it were our faces from him; he was despised, and we esteemed him not. Surely he hath borne our griefs, and carried our sorrows: yet we did esteem him stricken, smitten of God and afflicted. He was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities: the chastisement of our peace was upon him; and with his stripes we are healed. . . .He was oppressed, and he was afflicted, yet he opened not his mouth: he is brought as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before her shearers is dumb, so he openeth not his mouth., etc. And we see in Acts 8:34 the Ethiopian eunuch was confused as he read, and asked Philip: Tell me, please, who is the prophet talking about, himself or someone else?

Ephesians 2:5,6 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus. Spiritually this has happened but literally I am not seated in heavenly places in Christ. . . I am still living in the world BUT I will be seated together with Christ.

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son. . . If I have literally been delivered from the power of darkness. . .why would I be told that I wrestle against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world and to put on the whole armour of God to stand against the wiles of the devil? BUT again I will be literally delivered when I am no longer a part of this world.

The same with the verses from Revelation. . . It is a certainty that we will reign as priests and kings . . . just not yet.

Sorry zone. . . .this was not meant to derail . . . carry on

okay.....you know you're raised spiritually.
you know there will be one day no more sin or death and you will be glorified.

what's the 1,000 years FOR?

 

[zone]

Because it never ends...

amillennialists know it never ends.
we just say the 1,000 year mystery gap that nobody can explain the purpose of doesn't exist.

still waiting for scriptural proof, tho

 

[zone]

Because he's still in the process of putting everything under his feet.
The presence of these things doesn't indicate he's not on the throne, or his kingdom isn't here. It just indicates he's reigning, and putting things under his feet.

1 Cor 15
[SUP]25[/SUP]For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. [SUP]26 [/SUP]The last enemy to be destroyed is death

Hebrews 2
[SUP]8 [/SUP] putting everything in subjection under his feet.”

Now in putting everything in subjection to him, he left nothing outside his control. At present, we do not yet see everything in subjection to him.[SUP]9 [/SUP]But we see him who for a little while was made lower than the angels, namely Jesus, crowned with glory and honor because of the suffering of death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

but they have Him reiging only in a future 1,000 years....where He still has enemies and people sin and die and war.
so....how is that Kingdom (portion?) any different from this one - except unbelievably, all that goes on with the Glorified majestic Christ KNOWN and SEEN ruling from old jeruslam.

so which sounds like a possible FAIL?
is Jesus really going to FAIL in some way by returning to rule and there's peace and whatnot but He loses control and.........eh

the Plan B thing never worked anyways.

 

[zone]

Ummm the explanation I've heard is that they wouldn't be for atonement, but rather would be gifts/offerings.

but they can't be brought to Him in a temple..because Jesus said there would be no other temple.
and New Jerusalem has no temple.

 

[vic1980]

I believe all of those things. As far as the last sentence, I will leave this with you and let you resolve it.

I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him. And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, that all people, nations, and languages, should serve him: his dominion is an everlasting dominion, which shall not pass away, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14
​

And there was given him dominion, and glory, and a kingdom, THAT ALL PEOPLE, NATIONS, AND LANGUAGES, SHOULD SERVE HIM: HIS DOMINION IS AN EVERLASTING DOMINION,WHICH SHALL NOT PASS AWAY, and his kingdom that which shall not be destroyed. Daniel 7:13-14

THAT ALL PEOPLE, NATIONS AND LANGUAGES SHOULD SERVE HIM

Jesus very own words

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

God is love