Predestination is misunderstood...

[Thunderrr-mental]

Yes absolutely, John 6:37-40

All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”

The above verses indicate that those God choose will come to the Lord Jesus. Their salvation is sure because the Lord will certainly not cast them out.

When God chose His elect, the world wasn't created yet, so of 'course it included those yet to be born

But every one gets chosen to have a seed put in them.

Is everyone in the book of life when the seed is first put into them.

The same seed either saves a person or it doesn't.

 

[Charlie_2024]

Not really. But as you say you have not done a study on the blotting out of names from the book of life. So kindly do your study. There are quite a few verses on this.

I've done a study and found a very interesting Biblical explanation and in my opinion correct interpretation of that Bible doctrine.

There' always more than one way to interpret the scriptures, many factors come into play. It's never a simple yes or no deal

https://www.gty.org/library/bibleqnas-library/QA0114/blotted-out-of-the-book-of-life

 

[Charlie_2024]

But every one gets chosen to have a seed put in them.

Is everyone in the book of life when the seed is first put into them.

The same seed either saves a person or it doesn't.

There are ample clear verses which leave no doubt that, from Gods perspective the elect were already saved before the world was made. I appreciate it looks different to us from a human viewpoint.

God sees the whole of human history, from the beginning to the end as if it had already reached the end. So, some may say God looked down the corridors of time and saw those who would believe the gospel and those who would reject it.

Others will read it differently and say God predestined everything to playout according to His predetermined will. The Church will remain divided over this issue, because one could approach it from different angles and arrive at a different interpretation.

Since theologians have been debating it for 500 years and made no progress, suggests to me that everyone will hold firmly to their view and they won't budge no matter what.

 

[PaulThomson]

Already addressed. The good man does without -or aside from- faith is incapable of saving man from
his sinful nature, and/or delivering salvation. Read in context against the message of the greater
whole, Scripture makes clear that God moves first and devoid of that, man would not and does not
because of his sin nature, which renders him hostile toward God and in fact, God's enemy.

God moving first does not mean that God only moves in those that get saved. God moves in all. In Him we live and move and have our being. He is the light that lights every man that comes into the world. There is no reason to suppose that God moving first determines who is or is not saved by responding with faith to God's first move.

 

[PaulThomson]

Incorrect, your seeing will as one object again.

If your willing to accept you are, i will explain.

I am willing to accept I am wrong, if you cam show that the Bible says what you say it does.
Explain why God from eternity past determining all things whatsoever comes to pass, does not mean that God thought up and predetermined every abomination.

 

[PaulThomson]

would it be a reasonable to suggest that this will was completely free in man before the fall.

Philippians 2:13 For it is God who is at work in you, both to will and to work for His good pleasure.


James 4:15 Instead, you ought to say, “If the Lord wills, we will live and also do this or that.”

1 John 5:14 This is the confidence which we have before Him, that, if we ask anything according to His will, He hears us.

Ephesians 1:11 also we have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to His purpose who works all things after the counsel of His will,

Please try exegeting at least one of those verses in context to show what you think they mean. Merely quoting verses and then saying they mean my opinion, is not a persuasive argument.,

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

I am willing to accept I am wrong, if you cam show that the Bible says what you say it does.
Explain why God from eternity past determining all things whatsoever comes to pass, does not mean that God thought up and predetermined every abomination.

I know of a clear passage I'm genesis 3,..which indicates God did not know what Adam and eve where going to do next.

This was before he changed his will in Adam and Eve, and placed punishment on them.

This says that once man was walking in the same time as God. And God did not know what man was going to do next.

After the fall it's clear that God knew what man was going to do next before he did it.


How so 🤔

Well if God made you live behind his time, .like before his present time. He would know wouldn't he.

So at this stage I'm not going to say where it is in genesis 3 😊

Sorry but at this stage I have My reasons

 

[Genez]

At this stage I'm just going to say it's in genesis 3

Evidently...

What part of the fruit Adam ate held meaning for us individually.

Each part he ate pertained to us and effected some of us differently than others.

Obviously....

Sad to say..... Adam gave you some deep core issues.


.......

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Evidently...

What part of the fruit Adam ate held meaning for us individually.

Each part he ate pertained to us and effected some of us differently than others.

Obviously....

Sad to say..... Adam gave you some deep core issues.


.......

like I said I have My reasons, and as your intent on ridiculing me, I'm not going to post the exact passage, to have a clear understanding rejected,

What I want is for the last four posters including you to read genesis 3 and acknowledge what it is, that is being suggested.

As if I say what the suggestion is, all four of you will counter act that suggestion with suggestion. 😊

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Please try exegeting at least one of those verses in context to show what you think they mean. Merely quoting verses and then saying they mean my opinion, is not a persuasive argument.,

they all say God's will lives in you whether saved or unsaved.

 

[Magenta]

God moving first does not mean that God only moves in those that get saved. ... There is no reason to suppose
that God moving first determines who is or is not saved by responding with faith to God's first move.

Nor did I say any such thing.

 

[Genez]

I know of a clear passage I'm genesis 3,..which indicates God did not know what Adam and eve where going to do next.

You mean that verse where it says God stopped being God?

That one?

 

[Genez]

At this stage I'm just going to say it's in genesis 3

They should have never legalized marijuana...

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

There are ample clear verses which leave no doubt that, from Gods perspective the elect were already saved before the world was made. I appreciate it looks different to us from a human viewpoint.

God sees the whole of human history, from the beginning to the end as if it had already reached the end. So, some may say God looked down the corridors of time and saw those who would believe the gospel and those who would reject it.

Others will read it differently and say God predestined everything to playout according to His predetermined will. The Church will remain divided over this issue, because one could approach it from different angles and arrive at a different interpretation.

Since theologians have been debating it for 500 years and made no progress, suggests to me that everyone will hold firmly to their view and they won't budge no matter what.

lets forget what everyone else thinks.

Let's try to understand first, how God knows what you will do next.

Does he know because he pre determines everyone's futures or does he know because he has set mans time, behind his present time.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

You mean that verse where it says God stopped being God?

That one?

They should have never legalized marijuana...

One word.

Scoffer 😊

 

[Cameron143]

Theres a clear passage in genesis that indicates man was once living in the same time as God, and that God did not know what Adam or eve would do next before the fall. He only knew what they would do before they did it after the fall.

Where is it buddy 😊

I have no idea.

 

[Mem]

Somebody, somewhere, recently, in one of these threads, brought up that God breathed "lives" into Adam. And I noticed the topic of seeds while skimming through this thread and thought reminded me of the first event I referred to because we were all present, even if indirectly, in the seed of Adam. Anyway, I believe this idiosyncrasy in the original text, that God breathed "lives" into Adam's nostrils alludes to God breathing "all of us" into the first body and so creating the first living soul. Similarly, Jesus breathed the Holy Spirit on the disciples... 'and the second Adam became a living spirit'....

I'm sure I'm going somewhere with this...

But, I'll let my mind process it a little more thoroughly before coming back with my point

 

[Dino246]

I know of a clear passage I'm genesis 3,..which indicates God did not know what Adam and eve where going to do next.

This was before he changed his will in Adam and Eve, and placed punishment on them.

This says that once man was walking in the same time as God. And God did not know what man was going to do next.

After the fall it's clear that God knew what man was going to do next before he did it.


How so 🤔

Well if God made you live behind his time, .like before his present time. He would know wouldn't he.

So at this stage I'm not going to say where it is in genesis 3 😊

Sorry but at this stage I have My reasons

You're being silly. If you "know of a clear passage" then quote it. Your explanation is convoluted enough that it is unlikely anyone else will find this alleged verse. Just step up and provide the reference and quit being bass-ackwards about it.

 

[Mem]

'and the second Adam became a living spirit'....

I misquoted, "the second Adam became a life giving spirit'
...as this is pertinent to the processing thought.

 

[Thunderrr-mental]

Evidently...

What part of the fruit Adam ate held meaning for us individually.

Each part he ate pertained to us and effected some of us differently than others.

Obviously....

Sad to say..... Adam gave you some deep core issues.


.......

You're being silly. If you "know of a clear passage" then quote it. Your explanation is convoluted enough that it is unlikely anyone else will find this alleged verse. Just step up and provide the reference and quit being bass-ackwards about it.

I have no idea.

. Read genesis 3 and see if you can spot where God did not know what Adam or eve or where doing and make the suggestion. If your brave enough, to come out of doctrine briefly.