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Oh goody another OSAS thread!
- Thread starter RickyZ
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1. No one is fot for the kingdom of God, no one, i am saddened you would think otherwise
2. Any one who hangs around true believers have tasted, and shared in the goodness and power of God, we call it blessing by association. It was is what draws people to god. But not everyone takes the final step to enter the kingdom
3.it does not mean they were saved.
2. Any one who hangs around true believers have tasted, and shared in the goodness and power of God, we call it blessing by association. It was is what draws people to god. But not everyone takes the final step to enter the kingdom
3.it does not mean they were saved.
- Here we go again. You continue to read the Bible through the lens of works salvation and you also continue to confuse DESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture with PRESCRIPTIVE passages of Scripture. When will you learn?
The good deeds of the redeemed (those who have done good) are not the basis of their salvation but the evidence of it. A person's conduct, whether good or evil, reveals the condition of his heart.
Doing good flows inescapably from a heart that is saved and doing evil flows equally inescapably from a heart that is unsaved, as we already saw in Romans 2:6-10. *Notice that ALL who come forth unto the resurrection of life (believers - John 5:24) are described as those who have done good and ALL that come forth unto the resurrection of damnation (unbelievers) are described as those who have done evil.
What did Jesus say in John 3:18? - He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already..
*Are believers described as "those who have done good" or those who have done evil?"
*Are unbelievers described as those "who have done evil" or "those who have done good?"
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Show us the word "saved" in the text. That is your preconceived belief. Judas Iscariot was with Jesus for around 3 years and talked with Jesus and witnessed the miracles that Jesus performed. Would you say he had the knowledge of Jesus Christ? Yet there was no heart submission to that knowledge. Judas was not saved and lost his salvation, but was never saved. Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who betrayed Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).
Judas may have looked like the real deal to the rest of the disciples, but Jesus knew his heart and said, "he is a devil!" Jesus also said, "woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”
Judas will be more accountable at the judgment than a garden variety pagan who did not have this knowledge of Jesus. The end will be worse for him.
Judas may have looked like the real deal to the rest of the disciples, but Jesus knew his heart and said, "he is a devil!" Jesus also said, "woe to that man by whom the Son of Man is betrayed! It would have been good for that man if he had not been born.”
Judas will be more accountable at the judgment than a garden variety pagan who did not have this knowledge of Jesus. The end will be worse for him.
Eze 33:13-20 KJV
(13) When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
[He dies for his iniquity, his own righteousness is not correct.]
(14) Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
(15) If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
(16) None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
[However those who turn from their wickedness and makes restitution shall live]
(17) Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
[The people continue to grumble. The lesson being taught is to obey the law and not our own righteousness.]
(18) When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
(19) But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
[In summery, when the righteous, who in their own righteousness believe they can do as they like because they are Always Saved turn to iniquity they will die, but when the wicked do what is lawful they will live. That puts the self righteous OSAS people right back where they belong.]
(20) Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.
(13) When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousnesses shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it.
[He dies for his iniquity, his own righteousness is not correct.]
(14) Again, when I say unto the wicked, Thou shalt surely die; if he turn from his sin, and do that which is lawful and right;
(15) If the wicked restore the pledge, give again that he had robbed, walk in the statutes of life, without committing iniquity; he shall surely live, he shall not die.
(16) None of his sins that he hath committed shall be mentioned unto him: he hath done that which is lawful and right; he shall surely live.
[However those who turn from their wickedness and makes restitution shall live]
(17) Yet the children of thy people say, The way of the Lord is not equal: but as for them, their way is not equal.
[The people continue to grumble. The lesson being taught is to obey the law and not our own righteousness.]
(18) When the righteous turneth from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, he shall even die thereby.
(19) But if the wicked turn from his wickedness, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall live thereby.
[In summery, when the righteous, who in their own righteousness believe they can do as they like because they are Always Saved turn to iniquity they will die, but when the wicked do what is lawful they will live. That puts the self righteous OSAS people right back where they belong.]
(20) Yet ye say, The way of the Lord is not equal. O ye house of Israel, I will judge you every one after his ways.
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I am utterly confused by your post here. You seem to be saying that born again Children of God have eternal security, but then go on to say that it isn't really secure. Is Jesus incapable of keeping us saved? Is not your offspring YOUR children by BIRTH and DNA? Even if they were to disown or leave you, aren't they STILL your child by BIRTH and DNA?
So we are HIS, a NEW creation, by BIRTH! WE have His Spiritual DNA! We have the Holy Spirit. He has SEALED us. How are WE going to break that seal? John wept convulsively because NO ONE could break the seals. ONLY the King, Jesus Christ could break the seals in Rev. And since He says He will NEVER leave us, HE isn't going to break the sea the Holy Spirit put on us.
Now there are those that HAVE abandoned the faith. Again, we have a very clear example of what that looks like in the Apostle Judas Iscariot. He proved that you can have faith but not truly believe. Why did he initially heed Jesus' calling? Why did he stay with Him 3 yrs? He certainly had some measure of faith, BUT was never born again. He exemplified the soil that had NO ROOT. That's what it ALWAYS boils down to. Have you been born again, a NEW creation. A child who knows Jesus and is Known by Him.
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That's not the summary, but is a straw man argument and demonstrates your hostility towards OSAS people.
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." *Does that sound familiar? It should.
*This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.
Ezekiel 33:13 - When I say to the righteous that he shall surely live, but he trusts in his OWN righteousness and commits iniquity, none of his righteous works shall be remembered; but because of the iniquity that he has committed, he shall die. Did you read that? "If he trusts in his OWN RIGHTEOUSNESS." *Does that sound familiar? It should.
*This is the heart of the matter here. This is describing a righteousness which is by the law rather than that which is by faith.
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From my experiences many seem to resist the fact that God does all the work of salvation or he does nothing. (Its His new creation)
If he begun the good work in us he will finish it to the end just as he informs us
If you did not search it out it would be easy to come to that conclusion of Universalism .
No man can repent, comfort or ease themselves unless God first give them the hearing of faith . (our first love hearing God) .
In Romans 3 we are informed no man can seek after God not seen of there own volition .Therefore no man can understand Him not seen unless he does the first work of giving us his understanding giving us ears to understand or hear .
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Romans3: 10-11
How do you seek after him if not by and through the faith of God, called the hearing of faith?
If it is God who works in the elect to both will and do His good pleasure .Why would someone believe it is of their own self? He must do the first work .Why would someone desire to accredit the hearing of God as He give us ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches to ones own imagination or understanding ?
We have the power or authority as new creatures in us by why boast as if it was of us?
Were you born with the power of God, or is it a must a person must be born again
2 Corinthians 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
If he begun the good work in us he will finish it to the end just as he informs us
If you did not search it out it would be easy to come to that conclusion of Universalism .
No man can repent, comfort or ease themselves unless God first give them the hearing of faith . (our first love hearing God) .
In Romans 3 we are informed no man can seek after God not seen of there own volition .Therefore no man can understand Him not seen unless he does the first work of giving us his understanding giving us ears to understand or hear .
As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.Romans3: 10-11
How do you seek after him if not by and through the faith of God, called the hearing of faith?
If it is God who works in the elect to both will and do His good pleasure .Why would someone believe it is of their own self? He must do the first work .Why would someone desire to accredit the hearing of God as He give us ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches to ones own imagination or understanding ?
We have the power or authority as new creatures in us by why boast as if it was of us?
Were you born with the power of God, or is it a must a person must be born again
2 Corinthians 4:7But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
The writer makes it crystal clear by the words he uses to us.
The problem you have, is you trying to make the word of God fit your wine tasting experience, rather than rightly dividing and examining all the adjectives that describe the point the author is making.
The meaning of tasted is not the meaning you have assigned it.
The we add “enlightened”, and “become partakers” to the word “tasted”, and we have a clear understanding that these are people, who have repented and received the Holy Spirit, and have become enlightened having a clear understanding, because then have partaken of the Holy Spirit, then as the context so plainly reveals, they have departed from the living God.
The very reason and purpose for the book of Hebrews was to reveal Jesus as the Lord God to the Jews, who were under persecution from unbelieving Jews to turn them back to Judaism.
The Context -
12 Beware, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God; 13 but exhort one another daily, while it is called “Today,” lest any of you be hardened through the deceitfulness of sin. 14 For we have become partakers of Christ if we hold the beginning of our confidence steadfast to the end, Hebrews 3:12-14
- lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief in departing from the living God;
For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit. Hebrews 6:4
JPT
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We all have a choice daily to choose this day who we will serve.
To take up our cross daily.
And if it seems evil to you to serve the Lord, choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you dwell. But as for me and my house, we will serve the Lord.”
Joshua 24:15
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It is impossible that Paul is saying we can have no works of obedience and still be saved. That contradicts all the other plain passages of scripture that say that person will not inherit the kingdom. Dead faith can not save. The person in the passage is saved, so we know he's not talking about having dead faith but being saved anyway.
The context of the passage is one's labor in planting and watering the field of God and building the building of God. That is what you can have no successful work concerning and you will still be saved.
The context of the passage is one's labor in planting and watering the field of God and building the building of God. That is what you can have no successful work concerning and you will still be saved.