Oh goody another OSAS thread!

[eternally-gratefull]

The Biblical definition of the 'works' gospel is that works earn justification. Neither one of us is saying works justify. No one says that. You just think we are saying that because you don't make the proper distinction between being justified and salvation.

Works will never, ever make you righteous before God. Everyone knows that. But if you do not have works you have a dead faith, and James says dead faith can not save you.

Lol, you believe that lack of works causes loss of salvation, (you call it loss of faith, ut same difference)he just said that noah was saved by his works.
If your going to have a belief system, stick by it, and live with it, don’t deny it, it makes you look bad.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

The principle's the same whether one does works or not - calling Jesus lord and not doing what he says. And the result's are the same whether those being disobedient are doing a lot of works, or none.

A person who does not do what the lord says does not do it because they do not trust him, they still trust self. No matter how many times they claim to have faith or cause jesus lord.

No one in CC that i know of (mailmandan included) would think otherwise, so why do you keep bringing it up? Since NO ONE SAYS OTHERWISE

 

[valiant]

Is confessing with your mouth the Lord Jesus, a deed or a word?

It is an act of faith. And do you believe that once they have done that they will be lost? Once Jesus has become my Lord I am HIS responsibility. I believe in my heart that HE will save me.

 

[valiant]

Each of us has a free will to choose to obey or disobey the truth.


JPT

Do we? Funnily enough I haven't. I was dead in sin and shapen in iniquity.

Thank God I am not dependent on my freewill. I could say goodbye to salvation,

 

[Ralph-]

Lol, you believe that lack of works causes loss of salvation, (you call it loss of faith, ut same difference)

What does it matter if dead faith (faith without works) means you never had faith or that you lost your faith? Either way YOU'RE STILL NOT SAVED.

You're majoring in a very serious minor.

 

[mailmandan]

The principle's the same whether one does works or not - calling Jesus lord and not doing what he says. And the result's are the same whether those being disobedient are doing a lot of works, or none.

If one fails to do the will of the Father by looking to the Son and believing in Him to receive eternal life (John 6:40) then it does not matter how much one sets out to do what Jesus says with the wrong motivations and for the wrong purpose. Apart from faith it’s impossible to please God.

 

[valiant]

No need to explain away what James says with your false interpretation.


Just read what the scripture actually says.

21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar? 22 Do you see that faith was working together with his works, and by works faith was made perfect? James 2:21-22

• justified by works when he offered Isaac his son

Faith is made complete with the work of obedience.


Scripture must be reconciled not explained away.




JPT

But who was he justified before? Not God. He had already been justified before God by faith.

It was BEFORE MEN that he was justified by works. Justification by works is always before men.

 

[Ralph-]

to do=/=action but a state of being.

yatab

Short Definition: well

long: to be; good, well, glad, or pleasing

You're still twisting it to mean think or feel right. Cain did not DO right.

 

[Ralph-]

If you can understand how baptism 'saves you' then you can understand how works 'save' you:

"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ "-1 Peter 3:21

Obviously, Peter is not saying baptism justifies you (makes you righteous). We all know nothing you do does that. Only trust in Christ does that. And we know baptism does not literally have power in and of itself to save you. But, nevertheless, he said it saves you. Most in the church do not know how to understand what he's saying and instantly reject it as an argument for works salvation.

 

[valiant]

If you can understand how baptism 'saves you' then you can understand how works 'save' you:

"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ "-1 Peter 3:21

Obviously, Peter is not saying baptism justifies you (makes you righteous). We all know nothing you do does that. Only trust in Christ does that. And we know baptism does not literally have power in and of itself to save you. But, nevertheless, he said it saves you. Most in the church do not know how to understand what he's saying and instantly reject it as an argument for works salvation.

But he says that baptism saves them by 'the appeal of a good conscience towards God'. It is their heart belief towards God that saves them of which baptism is the sign

 

[mailmandan]

Tell that to Noah.

Noah had already "found grace" (Genesis 6:8), was "a preacher of righteousness" (2 Peter 2:5), and "walked with God" BEFORE he built the ark. His obedience was a DEMONSTRATION of his faith and not the origin of it. Noah was already a righteous man because of his faith BEFORE he built the ark. Building the ark saved him and his family (physically) from drowning.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

What does it matter if dead faith (faith without works) means you never had faith or that you lost your faith? Either way YOU'RE STILL NOT SAVED.

You're majoring in a very serious minor.

If that was all it was, i may believe yiu, but we both know its not,

For one,, you push works, if one does not have works, they have no faith, its a back door way to preaching works,

If one loses faith, (if it were possible) works would still not be part if the equation, and james cant be used, james speaks of people who claim to have faith but has no works, not people who lost faith, and because they lost faith have no works.

Your still missing the mark

 

[eternally-gratefull]

If you can understand how baptism 'saves you' then you can understand how works 'save' you:

"Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ "-1 Peter 3:21

Obviously, Peter is not saying baptism justifies you (makes you righteous). We all know nothing you do does that. Only trust in Christ does that. And we know baptism does not literally have power in and of itself to save you. But, nevertheless, he said it saves you. Most in the church do not know how to understand what he's saying and instantly reject it as an argument for works salvation.

Baptism does not save us, nor is peter trying to say this, it is another symbol (like the flood) of what does save us, the ressurection of christ.

 

[justpassinthrough]

Do we? Funnily enough I haven't. I was dead in sin and shapen in iniquity.

Thank God I am not dependent on my freewill. I could say goodbye to salvation,

Do you still have the ability to choose, what to wear, what to eat, and what activities you do?

 

[justpassinthrough]

As I said before, confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised Him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation but are chronologically together (Romans 10:8-10).

Wrong again.

I guess that is what happens when you just make up things as you go.

You forget that some of us actually read the Bible.


9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

2 and 2 = 4


I know even a mailman can add.


2 and 2 does not equal 2.



JPT

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Do you still have the ability to choose, what to wear, what to eat, and what activities you do?

did God already seal what i wear or eat or do like He already sealed me?

 

[garee]

What GOD saw was Abel's faith and Cain's lack of faith.

You must mean the faith of Christ that worked in Abel to both will and do the good pleasure of God . (imputed righteousness ) Certainly not after the imaginations of Abel heart separate from God or what the bible refers to as "no faith" . He like any other born again believer will not be found with a righteousness of his own self .His brother Cain trusted in his own self and killed the misperceived competition as in out of sight out of mind. The no faith of natural unconverted man is called a froward generation, the generation of natural unconverted man. Its the results of not mixing faith in what we do hear or see.

Deuteronomy 32:20And he said, I will hide my face from them, I will see what their end shall be: for they are a very froward generation, children in whom is no faith

Its either no faith or new faith in respect to the faith of Godas to His free gift to us not of us lest any man boast in false pride .Its the power of the gospel that works in these earthen vessels of clay.

Just remember keep saying to yourself, not of us

2 Corinthians 4:7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us

 

[garee]

Wrong again.

I guess that is what happens when you just make up things as you go.

You forget that some of us actually read the Bible.


9 that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10 For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. Romans 10:9-10

• if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

2 and 2 = 4


I know even a mailman can add.


2 and 2 does not equal 2.



JPT

I think you meant if he gives us the faith to confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. He creates in us a new heart and gives us a new spirit and a soul that will never die .One that he will raise up and give us a new incorruptible body .He does all things when he creates anew .

Its why we trust him he is our confidence.

Philippians 1:6 Being confident of this very thing, that he which hath begun a good work in you "will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ:"

 

[garee]

That is correct.

In Leviticus we see that grain does not atone for sin.

Exactly the life of the flesh is in the blood, but literal blood without the unseen spirit has no life to offer. It returs to the spiritless dust it was formed of. Blood seen is used to represent the Spirit of Christ, the Holy Spirit of God, the eternal not seen. Water is used in the same way as blood , the blood must be poured out at the foot of the alter as Christs blood was poured out at the foot of the cross.

Grain is used to represent the spiritual seed(one) Christ

 

[vic1980]

Luke 13: 2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans , because they suffered such things? 3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Shalom