Obedient Woman

[Icedaisey]

Maybe theres a misunderstanding, divorce is mans doing, not God.

With God in the marriage relationship ALL things are possible.

I agree , its a hard thing, in this life.
But it goes to ...pride of life (feelings hurt and everyones sees)
The Christ overcame this.....

When do you become "unjoined"?
State changes, standing remains the same til Christ.

Sex before marriage, you know trying it out first..before we buy in...
How do you think that effects going into and through the marriage?

Agreed!

"Becoming one" is not instant in most cases, to know the wife and the wife knowing the husband is a process, like sanctification,
and we always do not get it right day by day.

No, not break the marriage covenant, that man cant break, made another bond.
God Bless!

I have to say in observation of your first point. I've known women who were in physically and sexually abusive marriages. They lived to get out, one literally ran for her life down a street at 10O'clock at night, and that's how we met. I rescued her and got her out of there and to the police.

Those women divorce by their choice and God bless them for having the courage. God knows, he didn't create a woman, or man for that matter, to be the punching bag, or a repeated rape victim, in the name of spouse, marriage, and for darn sure, not according to scripture.

If anyone here is in an abusive relationship, RUN! While you are still alive. If they'll beat you, what's to stop them from killing you?
Answer: You!
Run! And no matter what, never ever take them back. Physical assault, rape, is abuse, and it's a form of exercising domination in order to break the will and spirit of the victim. That isn't love! That's Sadism!

If you stay you can die. If you don't get out you'll never meet the spouse God intended. If you're breathing and mobile after the first beating, that's God's way of telling you to leave asap! And whatever you do DO NOT TELL YOUR SPOUSE YOU'RE LEAVING THEM!

Many a woman has done that. May they rest in peace.

 

[walknlight]

Hi!

I have to say in observation of your first point. I've known women who were in physically and sexually abusive marriages. They lived to get out, one literally ran for her life down a street at 10O'clock at night, and that's how we met. I rescued her and got her out of there and to the police.

I know many also, including men abused. Never said anything about staying in an abusive relationship.
....... was talking about divorce in the "scheme of adultery".
------
1John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

If Christ is not the HEAD of the marriage, no matter the situation, it will not work...

God Bless...

 

[Icedaisey]

Hi!

I know many also, including men abused. Never said anything about staying in an abusive relationship.
....... was talking about divorce in the "scheme of adultery".

Never said you did. My comments and observations were talking about divorce and abuse.

I'm married. I can say I have looked at gorgeous men and thought they were a masterpiece of God's handiwork. doesn't mean I would commit adultery. Doesn't mean I have in thought either.

 

[Katia]

It was only recently in Saudi Arabia where the rule of death was removed as a punishment for women who dared to drive.
Saudi Arabia is an Islamic theocracy the Qur'an and the Sunnah tradition are the official practice. Religious freedom is allowed except those who are other than Islamic cannot proselytize their religion.

Further, with regard to Jesus in the Qur'an, Jesus is not referred to as the son of God (Allah). He is not even called Jesus. He is referred to as Isa Masih . And his mother is Maryam. "Praise be to Allah, who begets no son, and has no partner in (His) dominion: Nor (needs) He any to protect Him from humiliation: ...."

Isa PBUH is the Arabic rendering for Jesus.

 

[walknlight]

Hi again!

Never said you did. My comments and observations were talking about divorce and abuse.
I'm married. I can say I have looked at gorgeous men and thought they were a masterpiece of God's handiwork. doesn't mean I would commit adultery. Doesn't mean I have in thought either.

Amen!
We are human with "natural" tendencies.
Now in Christ we have the ability to take these thoughts captive and repent..1John 1:9
God Bless!

 

[1ofthem]

Maybe theres a misunderstanding, divorce is mans doing, not God.

Jesus said that you can divorce in the case of fornication. He gave that exception so marriage can be broken due to adultery. Another thing that I think most people don't take into account is that God has not called and ordained every marriage. Sometimes people rush into a marriage and that marriage wasn't called or ordained by God at all.

With God in the marriage relationship ALL things are possible.
I agree , its a hard thing, in this life.
But it goes to ...pride of life (feelings hurt and everyones sees)
The Christ overcame this.....

Yes, I'm sure it is possible that some could work it out.

But no, it is not only pride. It is a betrayal on the deepest level in a marriage. Has nothing to do with whether anyone else knows about it or not. Once someone betrays another on that level...There may be no coming back from it. You may never be able to trust that person again or may never want to be intimate with that person ever again either. I mean it is a very difficult thing. God is not going to force anyone to remain in a marriage like that....pretty sure that is why he made the exception for fornication.

Sex before marriage, you know trying it out first..before we buy in...
How do you think that effects going into and through the marriage?

This is not the same thing...what someone has done in their past has nothing to do with making vows and then breaking them and betraying your spouse after marriage.

"Becoming one" is not instant in most cases, to know the wife and the wife knowing the husband is a process, like sanctification,
and we always do not get it right day by day.

Agreed, but not always getting it right and taking a while to become one has nothing to do with someone engaging in adultery and becoming one with another person.

No, not break the marriage covenant, that man cant break, made another bond.
God Bless!

Yes, it can break the marriage covenant that is Biblical and people need to be aware of how serious adultery really is. That is the only exception that Jesus gave for divorce. So yeah, it's serious and people need to understand that once they go that far they may never be able to come back from it...just saying.

 

[Webers.Home]

.

Gen 3:22 . . And the Lord God said: The man has now become like one of
us, knowing good and evil.

In other words; Adam's conscience-- Adam's fallen conscience --became his
guide in matters relative to sex and the human body.

That is extremely important to know about because Adam's fallen conscience
became universal, i.e. his posterity's conscience is fallen too so that each
and every individual on this forum has a fallen conscience, plus each and
every individual in church too; including the folks pounding pulpits.

This fallen conscience of ours has, to a great extent, a strong influence on
how people interpret passages like Matt 5:27-28.

There are people out there who want the male libido to be evil, and they
want men and boys condemned as adulterers for having perfectly normal
carnal thoughts about women because these people's fallen conscience
pressures them to want it that way just as Adam's fallen conscience
pressured him to believe frontal nudity is intrinsically indecent.

I have been an ongoing student of the Bible since 1968; and after fifty-three
years of Bible, I have yet to encounter even one passage wherein God
condemns frontal nudity as a sin in itself. I'm not saying there isn't a
passage; I'm only saying that I myself have yet to encounter one.
_

 

[Runningman]

.



Were you a critical thinker yourself, you wouldn't be thinking like that; nor
would you presume to speak for every critical thinker out there.

(I'm by no means qualified to say; but I suspect that you may be infected
with an excessive appreciation of your own opinions, i.e. conceited.)
_

Who cares. Just talk about whatever you want to. It's not really a problem for me if you prefer long-winded, oversimplified, convuluted explainations over the simple plain text rendering of the scriptures.

 

[Dino246]

I have to say in observation of your first point. I've known women who were in physically and sexually abusive marriages. They lived to get out, one literally ran for her life down a street at 10O'clock at night, and that's how we met. I rescued her and got her out of there and to the police.

Those women divorce by their choice and God bless them for having the courage. God knows, he didn't create a woman, or man for that matter, to be the punching bag, or a repeated rape victim, in the name of spouse, marriage, and for darn sure, not according to scripture.

If anyone here is in an abusive relationship, RUN! While you are still alive. If they'll beat you, what's to stop them from killing you?
Answer: You!
Run! And no matter what, never ever take them back. Physical assault, rape, is abuse, and it's a form of exercising domination in order to break the will and spirit of the victim. That isn't love! That's Sadism!

If you stay you can die. If you don't get out you'll never meet the spouse God intended. If you're breathing and mobile after the first beating, that's God's way of telling you to leave asap! And whatever you do DO NOT TELL YOUR SPOUSE YOU'RE LEAVING THEM!

Many a woman has done that. May they rest in peace.

A footnote to Malachi 2:16 renders God's words as "I hate divorce, and I hate a man's covering his wife with violence as well as with his garment."

 

[Icedaisey]

Isa PBUH is the Arabic rendering for Jesus.

Yes, I said that.
Also, just as an aside, PBUH, Peace Be Upon Him, similar to the abbreviation, SAWS. In Arabic, "sallallahu alayhi wa salaam", is a sign of respect for Islam's prophets.

Interesting, that citing Isa and offering the respect of PBUH, is such when Islam denies the divinity of "Isa". And also it is believed the reason for this is because "Isa" never claimed to be divine.

That's why I find it contrary for a Christian to invoke PBUH, in accord with a tradition that denies the divine identity of that Christian's Savior.

Can you explain that?

 

[walknlight]

Jesus said that you can divorce in the case of fornication. He gave that exception so marriage can be broken due to adultery.

NOT TRUE
AGain,
Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
This is not a suggestion, Its a commandment.
Marriage is a covenant GOD MADE, not man, you think man would? He made the sacrifice not man.
Man thinks he can by a bill of divorcement, that Moses, a man wrote.

Another thing that I think most people don't take into account is that God has not called and ordained every marriage. Sometimes people rush into a marriage and that marriage wasn't called or ordained by God at all.

AGREED!
Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
So one should have no great expectations, without Christ in the relationship.

Yes, I'm sure it is possible that some could work it out.

Have heard many testimonies of reconciliation, they kept Christ first! Halleluyah!

But no, it is not only pride.

I understand, truly.
Its pride "you hurt me, betrayed me,cheated on me...." pride is hurt.

Has nothing to do with whether anyone else knows about it or not.

Sure it does! Marriage is seen, people watch.

God is not going to force anyone to remain in a marriage like that....

God is not going to force you to do .....anything, even forgive.
7x70

This is not the same thing...what someone has done in their past has nothing to do with making vows and then breaking them and betraying your spouse after marriage.

Ok when does one offload the ones joined to prior?
Fornication is sex before marriage.(in context, the betrothal period)
Adultery , married.

Agreed, but not always getting it right and taking a while to become one has nothing to do with someone engaging in adultery and becoming one with another person.

Sure it does. Its life. Not getting it right= making mistakes and we all make them.
God Bless!

 

[1ofthem]

Jesus said if someone looks at someone else with lust for them then they've committed adultery in their heart. There is no going back and undoing what happened once a married person lusts for someone else; it's done and it's time to face the inconvient truth that they're an adulterer regardless of whether or not they would ever commit the physical act of adultery.



Jesus said simply looking at someone with lust is enough to qualify as adultery. Lust is a thought.

Matthew 5:28
28But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

There's nothing about thinking something for "too long" or "too much" in the Bible. The sin of adultery occurs instantaneously as soon as someone merely wants a partner beside their husband or wife.



Actually, Jesus made it quite clear that fornication is a cause for divorce. He also made it quite clear that looking at someone with lust is adultery. Divorce is allowed for having adulterous thoughts about someone else.

Matthew 5:32
32But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.



I agree and I wouldn't divorce someone who felt attracted to a different man, but I could for the cause of adultery. I'm just pointing out what Jesus taught on this subject.



It's possible to forgive a cheating spouse and move on like nothing happened. I personally think it's worse to have a spouse who is completely uninvolved than one whom commits adultery. I think there comes a point where adultery isn't much of a surprise.



A M E N!

Just my thoughts, but I'm pretty sure Jesus wouldn't want people getting a divorce due to impure thoughts only. ...and then again maybe if someone was totally addicted to porn and was a pervert who thought about other sexual partners all the time...then maybe it would be acceptable to divorce someone like that. IDK

Also, as I said before I'm sure some people can deal with sexual infidelity...I don't think I'm one who could though....I could forgive someone and probably even forget about almost anything other than infidelity...The actual act of adultery is just not something I think I could accept in a marriage. And according to scripture, it is clear that it is not something that anyone would have to accept.

 

[1ofthem]

NOT TRUE
AGain,
Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
This is not a suggestion, Its a commandment.
Marriage is a covenant GOD MADE, not man, you think man would? He made the sacrifice not man.
Man thinks he can by a bill of divorcement, that Moses, a man wrote.

AGREED!
Mark 10:9 What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
So one should have no great expectations, without Christ in the relationship.

Have heard many testimonies of reconciliation, they kept Christ first! Halleluyah!

I understand, truly.
Its pride "you hurt me, betrayed me,cheated on me...." pride is hurt.

Sure it does! Marriage is seen, people watch.

God is not going to force you to do .....anything, even forgive.
7x70

Ok when does one offload the ones joined to prior?
Fornication is sex before marriage.(in context, the betrothal period)
Adultery , married.

Sure it does. Its life. Not getting it right= making mistakes and we all make them.
God Bless!

Well, sounds like we are going to just have to disagree.

God Bless!

 

[walknlight]

Well, sounds like we are going to just have to disagree.
God Bless!

Fair enough...
Never said marriage was easy and . The Key is Christ and even still..were men
we are going to make mistakes.
Pray for me as I pray for you...
God Bless!!!!

 

[Icedaisey]

Matthew 19.
Jesus said divorce is allowed on the grounds of immorality.

Immorality is an expansive umbrella term that can include physical abuse, adultery, sloth, atheism 2Corinthians 6:14,etc...
Biblical Reasons for Divorce – Does the Bible Allow Divorce?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

The Hebrew people are lucky that Ruth didn’t keep Quiet and listen to the men

 

[Katia]

Yes, I said that.
Also, just as an aside, PBUH, Peace Be Upon Him, similar to the abbreviation, SAWS. In Arabic, "sallallahu alayhi wa salaam", is a sign of respect for Islam's prophets.

Interesting, that citing Isa and offering the respect of PBUH, is such when Islam denies the divinity of "Isa". And also it is believed the reason for this is because "Isa" never claimed to be divine.

That's why I find it contrary for a Christian to invoke PBUH, in accord with a tradition that denies the divine identity of that Christian's Savior.

Can you explain that?

I've said before that I was a practicing Muslim for over 7 years. God knows my heart and you do not. It is him who I will face. You and I are finished.

 

[presidente]

Actually, in the New Testament we learn it is a matter of mutual submission. Out of love and respect and because the two become one in marriage.
“Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and hold fast to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” 1 Peter 3:7 ESV
Ephesians 5 BSB
Wives and Husbands
(Song of Solomon 1:1–17; 1 Peter 3:1–7)
Ephesians 5:21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.c
22Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, His body, of which He is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
25Husbands, love your wives, just as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her 26to sanctify her, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word, 27and to present her to Himself as a glorious church, without stain or wrinkle or any such blemish, but holy and blameless.
28In the same way, husbands ought to love their wives as their own bodies. He who loves his wife loves himself. 29Indeed, no one ever hated his own body, but he nourishes and cherishes it, just as Christ does the church. 30For we are members of His body.d
31“For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”e 32This mystery is profound, but I am speaking about Christ and the church. 33Nevertheless, each one of you also must love his wife as he loves himself, and the wife must respect her husband.

This passages and the verses tha tfollow say to submit to one another and then tell whom to submit to whom.

Ephesians 6:1
6 Children, obey your parents in the Lord, for this is right. 2 “Honor your father and mother,” which is the first commandment with promise: 3 “that it may be well with you and you may live long on the earth.”
4 And you, fathers, do not provoke your children to wrath, but bring them up in the training and admonition of the Lord.
5 Bondservants, be obedient to those who are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling, in sincerity of heart, as to Christ;
(NKJV) Bold emphasis mine.




Wives are to submit to their husbands. Children are to obey their masters. Bonservants are to obey their masters.

 

[presidente]

Jesus said simply looking at someone with lust is enough to qualify as adultery. Lust is a thought.

Lust is desire or coveteousness. You can find that word, or a version of it, in the 10 commandments in the Greek LXX. In Romans 7:7, Paul wrote, '...for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. ' The term is not exclusively about sex, either.

in the verse in Matthew 5 it is a bit more specific. The man who looks at a woman ____in order to lust___ has committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[Mem]

I see obedience demanded in a woman throughout the Bible. It is in the Qur'an Surah 4:34. Do these works call for absolute obedience, or is there a burden on the male also to not be overbearing and mean?

Wives submit to your own husbands and husbands love your wives... can love and submitting be considered practically synonymous?
Sarah is given as example in that she called Abraham Lord and, "you are Sarah's daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear (1 Peter 3:6) And this make sense considering, "there is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment (1 John 4:18).

If a husband torments his wife, even though he may claim to do so 'in the name of love', is that she should accept it as love 'doing what is right'?

I think fear and hate can also be considered practically synonymous.