Not By Works

[Judges1318]

Actually, you are too biased (not honest) to accept what the passage plainly says IN CONTEXT. (Hebrews 10:26-39) Honest people properly harmonize scripture with scripture before reaching their conclusion on doctrine. Dishonest people build their biased doctrine on pet verses taken OUT OF CONTEXT, then resort to name calling and slander when they are unable to refute the truth.

You are the one who rejected the definition of the sanctified person given right in the passage, not me. And that definition doesn't allow 'forever' in the passage to mean 'you have salvation forever', but rather what it says, that the ministry of Christ is forever and doesn't have to be repeated.

 

[Micaiah-imla]

Oh the irony!!

Show me a scripture that I have contradicted.

Mind you, not a OSAS doctrine; I’ll gladly contradict OSAS teaching with scripture as often as the Spirit leads me to do it.

 

[Judges1318]

I’ve read that more than a dozen times and it still doesn’t make sense.

You don't do works to get saved, you do works because you are a new creation in Christ in salvation.

"created in Christ Jesus to do good works" - Ephesians 2:10

That's how works are required.
If, in the end, you don't have the works that Christ created you to do, you show that you are not a new creation in Christ.

 

[EleventhHour]

Show me a scripture that I have contradicted.

Mind you, not a OSAS doctrine; I’ll gladly contradict OSAS teaching with scripture as often as the Spirit leads me to do it.

OSAS is the Gospel so you are in contradiction right there.

 

[mailmandan]

2 Peter 1:5-7,10
[5] And beside this, giving all diligence, add to your faith virtue; and to virtue knowledge; [6] And to knowledge temperance; and to temperance patience; and to patience godliness; [7] And to godliness brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness charity. [10] Wherefore the rather, brethren, give diligence to make your calling and election sure: for if ye do these things, ye shall never fall

Proverbs 24:16 - For a righteous man may fall seven times And rise again, But the wicked shall fall by calamity.

By cultivating the qualities listed in 2 Peter 1:5-7, Christians can be sure that God has called them and elected them. These fruits confirm that we have been called and elected - bébaios (an adjective, derived from bainō, "to walk where it is solid") – properly, solid (sure) enough to walk on; hence, firm, unshakable; (figuratively) absolutely dependable, giving guaranteed support (security, surety).

This passage of scripture is not “adding works” to salvation through faith.

 

[Lightskin]

Any teaching that causes you to say things contrary to scripture should give you pause.

You’re correct. Thankfully, unlike you, I’m not teaching anything contrary to Scripture.

 

[EleventhHour]

If, in the end, you don't have the works that Christ created you to do, you show that you are not a new creation in Christ.

This makes a lot of sense.

 

[Judges1318]

Completely illogical.

To you.
Not to those of us who understand how works are required without them earning salvation.

 

[EleventhHour]

required

"Required"....meaning ...without them no salvation

Means they are necessary for salvation.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Jesus himself said this:

Matthew 5:48
[48] Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

He did not say, You’ll be perfect through me (so don’t even try it).

The text says, "shall be [future tense, indicative]"... and I'm not really seeing an "imperative" here, either (which would be represented by the letter "M," not there [not the one referring to the "voice" either, but IN THE PLACE where the "I"/"indicative" is located! (NOT being "M/imperative," see)] : https://biblehub.com/text/matthew/5-48.htm )

 

[Micaiah-imla]

OSAS is the Gospel so you are in contradiction right there.

It is not the gospel.

This is the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

Romans 1:16-18
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [17] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

Paul did not say the phrase “Once Saved, Always Saved” anywhere in his letters.

In fact, one could deduce that a OSAS believer could, with a good conscience, hold the truth in unrighteousness; because the OSAS doctrine allows for it.

 

[Lightskin]

You don't do works to get saved, you do works because you are a new creation in Christ in salvation.

"created in Christ Jesus to do good works" - Ephesians 2:10

That's how works are required.
If, in the end, you don't have the works that Christ created you to do, you show that you are not a new creation in Christ.

Your second paragraph seems to be an oxymoron. If Christ created works for you to do and you don’t do them, and you’re not a new creation because of this, then Christ never made you a new creation thus He wouldn’t have created the works in the first place.

 

[EleventhHour]

It is not the gospel.

This is the gospel:

1 Corinthians 15:3-4
[3] For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; [4] And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures

Romans 1:16-18
[16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. [17] For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness

Paul did not say the phrase “Once Saved, Always Saved” anywhere in his letters.

In fact, one could deduce that a OSAS believer could, with a good conscience, hold the truth in unrighteousness; because the OSAS doctrine allows for it.

Jesus gives the gift of "eternal life" = OSAS

 

[Judges1318]

This makes a lot of sense.

That's all you got?

 

[Lightskin]

The definition of grace:
The free and unmerited favor of God, as manifested in the salvation of sinners and the bestowal of blessings.

Such a great post I’m going to post it again and again and again and again . . .

 

[Judges1318]

Your second paragraph seems to be an oxymoron. If Christ created works for you to do and you don’t do them, and you’re not a new creation because of this, then Christ never made you a new creation thus He wouldn’t have created the works in the first place.

Why would Christ not create acts of kindness, love, etc. for new creations to do if you aren't among them?

 

[mailmandan]

You are the one who rejected the definition of the sanctified person given right in the passage, not me. And that definition doesn't allow 'forever' in the passage to mean 'you have salvation forever', but rather what it says, that the ministry of Christ is forever and doesn't have to be repeated.

It’s you who rejects the dual meaning of “sanctified” and you also reject the word “forever” in the passage as well. Hebrews 10:10 clearly states - WE have been sanctified-once for all and verse 14 clearly states - perfected forever THOSE who are sanctified. You need to stop twisting the text.

 

[Judges1318]

You sir are worker for salvation. Plain and simple.
It is all about your effort.

All you need to do is post the chapter and verse that says my believing is me trying to save myself by my own efforts.

 

[EleventhHour]

You need to stop twisting the text.

That would be a miracle.

 

[EleventhHour]

All you need to do is post the chapter and verse that says my believing is me trying to save myself by my own efforts.

Nope .. the issue is loss of salvation.

That means self-effort.

Own it.