Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

number one- I never said salvation is dependant on works. Where's the post where I said that. You will not produce it, because it's not there. You are making things up and misrepresenting me. Over and over again

Number two- Where's the strawman? We were talking about fruit and works after salvation. You acted like we were talking about conditions of salvation, which is the strawman. you and your minions who call you doc are the ones who builds strawmen

Under Grace said Christians do not perservere, and like a good gang of theological thugs you defended her by attacking me.

Dude you are losing your mind.....serious........go back and read SLOWLY with glasses on this time.......!!

 

[Macabeus]

No need to shout. I can see that you have an axe to grind. Pass.

SO do you agree that Christians perservere as they are kept by the power of God through faith?

That is what the doctrine of perserverance means.

https://banneroftruth.org/us/resour...e-doctrine-of-the-perseverance-of-the-saints/

 

[gb9]

No one reads my posts so I sometimes make the letters big. Plus my eyes are bad and I sometimes subconciously think other's are too.

And I don't have an axe to grind. I just think this place needs a culture change. And I don't think it's right to misquote and misrepresent people. But that's all some of these people have.

we read your posts. we just do not agree with them at times.

it really makes you look bad when you constantly say ' we don't read , we don't understand, we misrepresent what you say'

you just get offended when you are disagreed with. ( and proven wrong, as I have schooled you about producing fruit many times. )

 

[UnderGrace]

No, Under Grace said "Christians do not perservere". I responded. That is what happened. Don't edit post history.

Knowing that it is the grace of God that preserves me and keeps me unto perserverance is VERY COMFORTING TO ME. It means that even when I fall short, God's grace is there for me, and that He gives me eternal life and no one can snatch Him from His Hand.

It's taking the pressure of performance off of me and putting it on Him.

If not for Him, I would have fallen away years ago.

Perseverance is a an action we do, not God.

You state it is by the power of God, interesting, because the doctrine states that when the person does not preserver well then they were not really of God?

 

[dcontroversal]

Kept by the FAITH JESUS begins, finishes and COMPLETES in US..........it is ALL CHRIST period!

 

[Macabeus]

They read them Mac, they don't agree with how you are presenting the scripture.

So do you agree that we are kept by the power of God through faith?

How do you interpret that?

 

[BibletruthSOP]

Two peas in a pod and both peddle what Cain peddled......He did not make the cut, nor will any that conflate salvation/justification with sanctification, or those that peddle a losable salvation or a salvation that must be maintained, kept or finished by works....!!

Justification always includes sanctification. Jesus is never a savior in sin. try to understand the plain definitions of conversion, born again. Do you actually think the "new man" is no different than the pre conversion sinning man? Do you actually think the "new creature man" is no different than the pre conversion sinning man? Do you actually think the "all things new man" is no different than the pre conversion sinning man?

 

[Macabeus]

Perseverance is a an action we do, not God.

You state it is by the power of God, interesting, because the doctrine states that when the person does not preserver well then they were not really of God?

Of course they say that. After all, How can they have the power of God to perservere if they were not really of God?

HOW do you perservere in something you don't have.

And I said we perservere as we are kept by the power of God. Is there any other kind of perserverance in the faith?

 

[dcontroversal]

They read them Mac, they don't agree with how you are presenting the scripture.

His attitude has been evident from the very day he ground the ax to powder on me when I stated clearly that bearing fruit is a process of growth and maturity....as evidenced by Christ, Paul, Peter, NATURE, the bible........

 

[azamzimtoti]

So do you agree that we are kept by the power of God through faith?

Of course.

How do you interpret that?

In the context of your posts I would have to think on that.

 

[dcontroversal]

Justification always includes sanctification. Jesus is never a savior in sin. try to understand the plain definitions of conversion, born again. Do you actually think the "new man" is no different than the pre conversion sinning man? Do you actually think the "new creature man" is no different than the pre conversion sinning man? Do you actually think the "all things new man" is no different than the pre conversion sinning man?

I think you do not know what you are talking about as evidenced by your losable salvation maintained by self effort....and sanctification is dual in usage.....ONE is positionally and eternally in Christ the other is based UPON a process of growth and maturity.......and of course I fully expect you to buck like you are riding a bull in the local Rodeo....

 

[Macabeus]

Dude you are losing your mind.....serious........go back and read SLOWLY with glasses on this time.......!!

When I talk about perservering, is that perservering before one is saved or after?

Of course it is after. How can one perservere in what they do not have.

But you act like I am making it a condition of salvation. That would mean you would have to perservere before you were regenerated, justified, adopted, kept, or sanctified.

Anyone who thinks I am saying that needs to go back and read my posts with glasses on.

 

[Macabeus]

Of course.



In the context of your posts I would have to think on that.

What do you mean in the context of my posts. Right now, it's just you and the scripture. How do you interpret that passage?

 

[azamzimtoti]

And I said we perservere as we are kept by the power of God. Is there any other kind of perserverance in the faith?

Don't get me wrong Mac, but this seems to beg the question.

 

[azamzimtoti]

What do you mean in the context of my posts. Right now, it's just you and the scripture. How do you interpret that passage?

Which passage Mac, there are so many posts I've lost track.

 

[UnderGrace]

Of course they say that. After all, How can they have the power of God to perservere if they were not really of God?

HOW do you perservere in something you don't have.

And I said we perservere as we are kept by the power of God. Is there any other kind of perserverance in the faith?

Therein lies the problem, and why I am not a Calvinist.

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes, because when someone mentions the blessings of obedience, you act like they are saying acts of obedience are part of what saves us, which is a strawman argument. Then you keep going back to justification instead of talking about how we are called to press forward towards the high calling of God.

Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

unto maturity <-->a process of growth and MATURITY.............

 

[Macabeus]

His attitude has been evident from the very day he ground the ax to powder on me when I stated clearly that bearing fruit is a process of growth and maturity....as evidenced by Christ, Paul, Peter, NATURE, the bible........

Now you are misquoting yourself. You said "a person cannot bear anything unless there is a process of growth and maturity". But you are contradicted by the passage that says "WHOEVER abides in me brings forth fruit." John 15:5

Who abides in Jesus? Mature Christians or Christians in general?

 

[Macabeus]

Therein lies the problem, and why I am not a Calvinist.

So you believe someone can perservere in faith WHO DOES NOT HAVE FAITH?

I am not a Calvinist either.

 

[azamzimtoti]

His attitude has been evident from the very day he ground the ax to powder on me when I stated clearly that bearing fruit is a process of growth and maturity....as evidenced by Christ, Paul, Peter, NATURE, the bible........

If I'm reading this correctly "bearing fruit is a process of growth and maturity" I would agree.