Not By Works
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This summarises many peoples approach to Jesus.
They invent sin, they desire to make everything into sin, so being a sinner and continuing
to sin is not a problem.
Yet they claim to follow a God who calls sin very specific issues and is very careful to define for His
people how to be cleansed. But again they deny cleansing and walking in the Lords ways.
A priest working in the temple purified himself so he could serve in the holy place.
To not honour this risked death. Now this is not death in terms of judgement but actual execution.
Paul the apostle when he was arrested he was in the temple going through the acts of purification.
People in general treat such issues with so much disrespect, and compromise all the time.
You see carrying the ark on a cart. Collecting fire wood on the sabbath.
But when people say the very foundation principles of love and purity in the heart are overthrown
as merely legalism is insanity. It takes an ultra-legalist to say the law is a farce to then justify
the whole process.
And the hatred, pure and simple expressed testifies to what is in the hearts of many.
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another
John 13:34
I have heard so many claim this is just another impossible goal given to show how much you need
Jesus. This attitude shows how ones heart is closed off to the Lord and you know nothing about
loving from the heart, like streams of living water flowing from God.
And my friends I know its reality, because I experience it. And it is this they hate. Why the difference,
and why is it so real? There must be something wrong, but the fact it is in their hard hearts and not
bowing the knee and repenting and being honest with all the junk within, cannot be the answer,
except this is exactly where it is. And Jesus lays the solution with us, to begin to be honest about
where we are, and have real faith to believe He can take us to a new place through obedience and love.
They invent sin, they desire to make everything into sin, so being a sinner and continuing
to sin is not a problem.
Yet they claim to follow a God who calls sin very specific issues and is very careful to define for His
people how to be cleansed. But again they deny cleansing and walking in the Lords ways.
A priest working in the temple purified himself so he could serve in the holy place.
To not honour this risked death. Now this is not death in terms of judgement but actual execution.
Paul the apostle when he was arrested he was in the temple going through the acts of purification.
People in general treat such issues with so much disrespect, and compromise all the time.
You see carrying the ark on a cart. Collecting fire wood on the sabbath.
But when people say the very foundation principles of love and purity in the heart are overthrown
as merely legalism is insanity. It takes an ultra-legalist to say the law is a farce to then justify
the whole process.
And the hatred, pure and simple expressed testifies to what is in the hearts of many.
A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another
John 13:34
I have heard so many claim this is just another impossible goal given to show how much you need
Jesus. This attitude shows how ones heart is closed off to the Lord and you know nothing about
loving from the heart, like streams of living water flowing from God.
And my friends I know its reality, because I experience it. And it is this they hate. Why the difference,
and why is it so real? There must be something wrong, but the fact it is in their hard hearts and not
bowing the knee and repenting and being honest with all the junk within, cannot be the answer,
except this is exactly where it is. And Jesus lays the solution with us, to begin to be honest about
where we are, and have real faith to believe He can take us to a new place through obedience and love.
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It appears it is your approach that is expressing the difficult emotions.
Obeying Christ is being cleansed from a guilty conscience,
trampling on the blood of Christ is deliberately keeping on sinning.
Now the quote is
22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Heb 10:22-24
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Heb 10:26-27
29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:29
Proclaiming those who desire obedience and walking in Jesus's ways as those who
are trampling Christ is delusional and driven by very strong emotion that obscures this
reality.
What drives people to get so worked up? A guilty conscience that is pricked by the word
of God, a heart that cannot settle and its trauma be aimed at those who quote scripture and lay
out the truth.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double--edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12
Obeying Christ is being cleansed from a guilty conscience,
trampling on the blood of Christ is deliberately keeping on sinning.
Now the quote is
22 let us draw near to God with a sincere heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled to cleanse us from a guilty conscience and having our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold unswervingly to the hope we profess, for he who promised is faithful.
24 And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds.
Heb 10:22-24
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left,
27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.
Heb 10:26-27
29 How much more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished who has trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as an unholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and who has insulted the Spirit of grace?
Heb 10:29
Proclaiming those who desire obedience and walking in Jesus's ways as those who
are trampling Christ is delusional and driven by very strong emotion that obscures this
reality.
What drives people to get so worked up? A guilty conscience that is pricked by the word
of God, a heart that cannot settle and its trauma be aimed at those who quote scripture and lay
out the truth.
For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double--edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.
Hebrews 4:12
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A closed heart will always dismiss another position.
It is not unreasonable when the ideas expressed one has previously dealt with.
The shame is I rarely see any answers provided, just a few verses quoted without
the balanced argument of the other side. But to do this would be to admit the
other side are honest, caring, loving individuals who love the Lord.
It is not unreasonable when the ideas expressed one has previously dealt with.
The shame is I rarely see any answers provided, just a few verses quoted without
the balanced argument of the other side. But to do this would be to admit the
other side are honest, caring, loving individuals who love the Lord.
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What happens when you meet someone who loves you and will die for you?
They cannot be a deceived, evil hypocrite who is living in sin with selfish desires
and no reality.
And this is the problem with painting others a hateful deceived evil people when
clearly they are not. The alternative is maybe one is wrong and needs to have such
an enemy to justify ones own position. This simply suggests the emotions and reality
within are is such turmoil and denial, it is ones own selfishness and hatred that is the
cause of the process and ideas.
Jesus said simply until we have peace and cleansing within we will never be able to
see the world correctly. He expressed this in terms of light. Light exposes the heart.
Light makes the heart work because it shows where the problems are and how they
can be dealt with. Darkness means everything can remain hidden and mysterious.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
John 3:20-21
They cannot be a deceived, evil hypocrite who is living in sin with selfish desires
and no reality.
And this is the problem with painting others a hateful deceived evil people when
clearly they are not. The alternative is maybe one is wrong and needs to have such
an enemy to justify ones own position. This simply suggests the emotions and reality
within are is such turmoil and denial, it is ones own selfishness and hatred that is the
cause of the process and ideas.
Jesus said simply until we have peace and cleansing within we will never be able to
see the world correctly. He expressed this in terms of light. Light exposes the heart.
Light makes the heart work because it shows where the problems are and how they
can be dealt with. Darkness means everything can remain hidden and mysterious.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
John 3:20-21
I wish the idea that religious acceptance of Jesus did not involve emotions, yet it does, like
everything in life. Even what people call facts relies on truth of others, evidence, testimony,
belief about how reality works.
And I was trying to express why I would be rejected so strongly by people and the best
expression I could come up with is "bitter". And the reason I used the word "bitter" is because
it creates in the other party a projection against innocents that they are guilty of heinous things
when nothing close to the accusation it true.
I celebrate your declaration you discuss facts. The fact is when God describes 613 is very specific.
The Jews took this so seriously they identified each one and try and make sure they obey them
all, sometimes to a ridiculous degree. This attitude is what Jesus talked about, that they were
good at some aspects, but had no heart, being full of greed and self indulgence.
Now these are the facts. But these facts some seem impossible to accept
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Matthew 23:25
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Matt 23:23
2 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Matthew 23:2-3
These are facts. Why is it some want to avoid these facts?
Maybe because emotionally it will upset them?
everything in life. Even what people call facts relies on truth of others, evidence, testimony,
belief about how reality works.
And I was trying to express why I would be rejected so strongly by people and the best
expression I could come up with is "bitter". And the reason I used the word "bitter" is because
it creates in the other party a projection against innocents that they are guilty of heinous things
when nothing close to the accusation it true.
I celebrate your declaration you discuss facts. The fact is when God describes 613 is very specific.
The Jews took this so seriously they identified each one and try and make sure they obey them
all, sometimes to a ridiculous degree. This attitude is what Jesus talked about, that they were
good at some aspects, but had no heart, being full of greed and self indulgence.
Now these are the facts. But these facts some seem impossible to accept
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence.
Matthew 23:25
Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices--mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law--justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former.
Matt 23:23
2 The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.
Matthew 23:2-3
These are facts. Why is it some want to avoid these facts?
Maybe because emotionally it will upset them?
Is it so hard to admit two loving caring people who know the Lord can disagree?
Wesley and Whitfield were friends, yet they disagreed theologically, and resolved to
let love reign despite their differences.
In a strange way I think this reassures us we know the Lord, when despite what we
see as serious problems, we let love reign above our heartfelt positions.
It is amazing to see how anger and bitterness can poison us. And worse still the poison
can be justified. It is why Jesus asks us to forgive as we have been forgiven.
And I know communities who have not learnt this, one in Northern Ireland and one in
the Balkans. Hatred passed from generation to generation destroys peoples lives.
How do you know hatred like this is deadly? You meet someone who at 16 killed others
because of this hatred. And how do you know Jesus heals such hatred?
You meet them after Christs love through repentance and faith changed them, and now
they see their enemy as normal people with their strengths and weaknesses.
Hurt can last a lifetime and destroy us, forgiveness leads us to eternal life, and is worth
everything we have.
Wesley and Whitfield were friends, yet they disagreed theologically, and resolved to
let love reign despite their differences.
In a strange way I think this reassures us we know the Lord, when despite what we
see as serious problems, we let love reign above our heartfelt positions.
It is amazing to see how anger and bitterness can poison us. And worse still the poison
can be justified. It is why Jesus asks us to forgive as we have been forgiven.
And I know communities who have not learnt this, one in Northern Ireland and one in
the Balkans. Hatred passed from generation to generation destroys peoples lives.
How do you know hatred like this is deadly? You meet someone who at 16 killed others
because of this hatred. And how do you know Jesus heals such hatred?
You meet them after Christs love through repentance and faith changed them, and now
they see their enemy as normal people with their strengths and weaknesses.
Hurt can last a lifetime and destroy us, forgiveness leads us to eternal life, and is worth
everything we have.
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...IF ANYONE TEACHES FALSE DOCTRINES and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, he is CONCEITED and UNDERSTANDS NOTHING. He has an unhealthy interest in CONTROVERSIES and QUARRELS ABOUT WORDS that result in envy, strife, MALICIOUS TALK, EVIL SUSPICIONS and CONSTANT FRICTION between men of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain. 1 Timothy 6:3-5
... Enoch, the seventh from Adam, PROPHESIED ABOUT THESE MEN :“See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are GRUMBLERS and FAULTFINDERS; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be SCOFFERS who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT. Jude 1:14-19
...This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and DESPISE AUTHORITY. Bold and ARROGANT, these men are not afraid to SLANDER celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring SLANDEROUS ACCUSATIONS against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But THESE MEN BLASPHEME IN MATTERS THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you...
...These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For THEY MOUTH EMPTY, BOASTFUL WORDS and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, THEY ENTICE PEOPLE who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are SLAVES OF DEPRAVITY—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to TURN THEIR BACKS ON THE SACRED COMMAND that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:10-13,17-22
...THE MAN WITHOUT THE SPIRIT does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and HE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THEM, because THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED. 1 Corinthians 2:14
...AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, so Faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
... Enoch, the seventh from Adam, PROPHESIED ABOUT THESE MEN :“See, the Lord is coming with thousands upon thousands of his holy ones to judge everyone, and to convict all the ungodly of all the ungodly acts they have done in the ungodly way, and of all the harsh words ungodly sinners have spoken against him.” These men are GRUMBLERS and FAULTFINDERS; they follow their own evil desires; they boast about themselves and flatter others for their own advantage. But, dear friends, remember what the apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ foretold. They said to you, “In the last times there will be SCOFFERS who will follow their own ungodly desires.” THESE ARE THE MEN WHO DIVIDE YOU, who follow mere natural instincts and DO NOT HAVE THE SPIRIT. Jude 1:14-19
...This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and DESPISE AUTHORITY. Bold and ARROGANT, these men are not afraid to SLANDER celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring SLANDEROUS ACCUSATIONS against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But THESE MEN BLASPHEME IN MATTERS THEY DO NOT UNDERSTAND. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done. Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you...
...These men are springs without water and mists driven by a storm. Blackest darkness is reserved for them. For THEY MOUTH EMPTY, BOASTFUL WORDS and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, THEY ENTICE PEOPLE who are just escaping from those who live in error. They promise them freedom, while they themselves are SLAVES OF DEPRAVITY—for a man is a slave to whatever has mastered him. If they have escaped the corruption of the world by knowing our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ and are again entangled in it and overcome, they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning. It would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than to have known it and then to TURN THEIR BACKS ON THE SACRED COMMAND that was passed on to them. Of them the proverbs are true: “A dog returns to its vomit,” and, “A sow that is washed goes back to her wallowing in the mud.” 2 Peter 2:10-13,17-22
...THE MAN WITHOUT THE SPIRIT does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and HE CANNOT UNDERSTAND THEM, because THEY ARE SPIRITUALLY DISCERNED. 1 Corinthians 2:14
...AS THE BODY WITHOUT THE SPIRIT IS DEAD, so Faith without works is dead also. James 2:26
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What I see as a cause of division is when people see in another something that is not there.
So a for instance is, that person over there says this because they have "an evil spirit", "are influenced by
evil spirits", "are deceived", "are dishonest", "have no integrity"
Most have perfect justification for how they feel, but need others to be a particular way. The flat earth
people need all the satellite industry, rocket industry etc to be lying and billions of "$" being spent on
imaginary things, as well as government, scientists, airline pilots. It gets so bad everyone is part of it.
So when any religious group start to make people one thing alone, then it begins to go wrong.
So if I say a few words, maybe two sentences, this does not make me evil, it means I have said a few
sentences. It may take years and lots of interaction to truly see me. But if one needs the few sentences
to justify a deluge of abuse, then the abuser holds the problem in their hearts. It is the abuse that
demonstrates the level of the issue.
Paul expressed this in terms of a fragrance.
14 But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him.
15 For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
16 To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life.
2 Cor 2:14-16
It should worry those who claim to know Jesus if Jesus's words create the fragrance of death.
For them, this fragrance rather than seen as a warning is seen as satan causing doubt in their standing.
I can only testify, this whole process is how God convicts and turns us around. It is a great thing to know
where we stand in the light, so that He can forgive us and sort us out.
And it is this that to me is Gods ministry in our hearts. It is not a belief or a position I have, it is what
God does through His Spirit. The question is are we listening and prepared to move and take the next
step.
So a for instance is, that person over there says this because they have "an evil spirit", "are influenced by
evil spirits", "are deceived", "are dishonest", "have no integrity"
Most have perfect justification for how they feel, but need others to be a particular way. The flat earth
people need all the satellite industry, rocket industry etc to be lying and billions of "$" being spent on
imaginary things, as well as government, scientists, airline pilots. It gets so bad everyone is part of it.
So when any religious group start to make people one thing alone, then it begins to go wrong.
So if I say a few words, maybe two sentences, this does not make me evil, it means I have said a few
sentences. It may take years and lots of interaction to truly see me. But if one needs the few sentences
to justify a deluge of abuse, then the abuser holds the problem in their hearts. It is the abuse that
demonstrates the level of the issue.
Paul expressed this in terms of a fragrance.
14 But thanks be to God, who always leads us in triumphal procession in Christ and through us spreads everywhere the fragrance of the knowledge of him.
15 For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing.
16 To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life.
2 Cor 2:14-16
It should worry those who claim to know Jesus if Jesus's words create the fragrance of death.
For them, this fragrance rather than seen as a warning is seen as satan causing doubt in their standing.
I can only testify, this whole process is how God convicts and turns us around. It is a great thing to know
where we stand in the light, so that He can forgive us and sort us out.
And it is this that to me is Gods ministry in our hearts. It is not a belief or a position I have, it is what
God does through His Spirit. The question is are we listening and prepared to move and take the next
step.
G
Did any of you guys notice in the previous pages that someone has repeatedly placing angry faces on each one of the posts? Their username is quite interesting though ~(something about CC Heretics)...and you can't really access their profile...
Just curious....coz it happened to me...
Just curious....coz it happened to me...
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it's one person with a half a dozen accounts ((at least)) -- sometimes putting happy faces on dozens of posts, sometimes angry. always in this thread. always dozens at a time, always with similar account names created at same time, always locked profiles so you can't visit them, never with any actual posts. it's been happening for a few months.
it's their idea of trolling; probably someone who had been involved in this thread and got banned.
it's their idea of trolling; probably someone who had been involved in this thread and got banned.
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I've said it before, and I'll say it again. We should all employ:
Romans 16:17-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
Avoid Divisive Persons
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord [a]Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and [b]simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
I have hopefully put Peter Jens (followhissteps) and Seohoce(Argueless) on ignore for the final time. If anyone sees me engaging them please slap me upside my head!
Romans 16:17-20 New King James Version (NKJV)
Avoid Divisive Persons
17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18 For those who are such do not serve our Lord [a]Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. 19 For your obedience has become known to all. Therefore I am glad on your behalf; but I want you to be wise in what is good, and [b]simple concerning evil. 20 And the God of peace will crush Satan under your feet shortly.
The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you. Amen.
I have hopefully put Peter Jens (followhissteps) and Seohoce(Argueless) on ignore for the final time. If anyone sees me engaging them please slap me upside my head!
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17 I urge you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them.
18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.
20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
Rom 16:17-20
Everyone has heard about your obedience
There is a lot of irony here, which I see repeated in too many places.
Those who support staying in sin, and not repenting or resolving their hearts, to meet their
own appetites, use the very verses about avoiding others for themselves.
So please if you believe in following sin, resolve your hearts before God and make sure you
learn to walk in Gods ways. What hope is there for you, if Gods word finds you guilty?
It reminds me of the people in revelations.
20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts
Rev 9:20-21
18 For such people are not serving our Lord Christ, but their own appetites. By smooth talk and flattery they deceive the minds of naive people.
19 Everyone has heard about your obedience, so I am full of joy over you; but I want you to be wise about what is good, and innocent about what is evil.
20 The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet. The grace of our Lord Jesus be with you.
Rom 16:17-20
Everyone has heard about your obedience
There is a lot of irony here, which I see repeated in too many places.
Those who support staying in sin, and not repenting or resolving their hearts, to meet their
own appetites, use the very verses about avoiding others for themselves.
So please if you believe in following sin, resolve your hearts before God and make sure you
learn to walk in Gods ways. What hope is there for you, if Gods word finds you guilty?
It reminds me of the people in revelations.
20 The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
21 Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts
Rev 9:20-21
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Joke - "please slap me upside my head!"
If anyone was this close to you, there is a serious problem going on.
It does surprise me what would cause someone such a reaction especially as they say they
go to a Nazarene Church which believes in Holiness and walking like Jesus.
I can but suppose they have some disconnect between this forum and real life, because they
like the people, not realising where their own theology actually is, and how judgemental they
are on the very people they claim to admire and love.
If anyone was this close to you, there is a serious problem going on.
It does surprise me what would cause someone such a reaction especially as they say they
go to a Nazarene Church which believes in Holiness and walking like Jesus.
I can but suppose they have some disconnect between this forum and real life, because they
like the people, not realising where their own theology actually is, and how judgemental they
are on the very people they claim to admire and love.
Answers to questions
Imagine you met someone who told you what they believed, and then if you suggested a
few problems with their ideas, they blew up and got angry and stormed away saying how
bad and evil the people were to disagree with them.
Who has the problem? The people just discussing the subject or the person storming away?
It is not unusual that one group react like this, with anger, offence, and a hail of abuse.
And understandably, because as any evangelist knows, saying people are sinners and need
to humble themselves before the King and obey love and righteousness is hard, if the alternative
is judgement. How dare anyone say they are wrong and need to resolve any issues in their life.
And I agree, if it was not Gods word and He is the judge.
But if the words were fragrance of life, walking like Jesus, because they knew this in their hearts,
and love flowed out to others, they would respond with joy and praise that another individual
knew the blessing of God in their life.
So the reaction itself shows the heart and the guilt and bad conscience involved.
And if you say such a feeling of guilt and bad conscience is satan stirring things up, then these
people need to be silenced. The problem with this is the guilt and bad conscience is the persons
own behaviour and failure, not the sharers, yet the sharer of walking with Jesus is deemed evil.
This follows Jesus's comment about being light to people and how they hate the light.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
John 3:20-21
This situation should worry anyone, deeply, because Jesus came to cleanse our consciences and
make us clean.
3 I thank God, whom I serve, as my forefathers did, with a clear conscience, as night and day I constantly remember you in my prayers.
4 Recalling your tears, I long to see you, so that I may be filled with joy.
2 Tim 1:3-4
2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2 Cor 4:2
12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, in the holiness and sincerity that are from God. We have done so not according to worldly wisdom but according to God's grace.
2 Corinthians 1:12-14
This is the way of God, to walk with a clear conscience. Amen, thank you Jesus that you cleanse
us and purify us from all unrighteousness, Amen.
Imagine you met someone who told you what they believed, and then if you suggested a
few problems with their ideas, they blew up and got angry and stormed away saying how
bad and evil the people were to disagree with them.
Who has the problem? The people just discussing the subject or the person storming away?
It is not unusual that one group react like this, with anger, offence, and a hail of abuse.
And understandably, because as any evangelist knows, saying people are sinners and need
to humble themselves before the King and obey love and righteousness is hard, if the alternative
is judgement. How dare anyone say they are wrong and need to resolve any issues in their life.
And I agree, if it was not Gods word and He is the judge.
But if the words were fragrance of life, walking like Jesus, because they knew this in their hearts,
and love flowed out to others, they would respond with joy and praise that another individual
knew the blessing of God in their life.
So the reaction itself shows the heart and the guilt and bad conscience involved.
And if you say such a feeling of guilt and bad conscience is satan stirring things up, then these
people need to be silenced. The problem with this is the guilt and bad conscience is the persons
own behaviour and failure, not the sharers, yet the sharer of walking with Jesus is deemed evil.
This follows Jesus's comment about being light to people and how they hate the light.
20 Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
21 But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
John 3:20-21
This situation should worry anyone, deeply, because Jesus came to cleanse our consciences and
make us clean.
3 I thank God, whom I serve, as my forefathers did, with a clear conscience, as night and day I constantly remember you in my prayers.
4 Recalling your tears, I long to see you, so that I may be filled with joy.
2 Tim 1:3-4
2 Rather, we have renounced secret and shameful ways; we do not use deception, nor do we distort the word of God. On the contrary, by setting forth the truth plainly we commend ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.
2 Cor 4:2
12 Now this is our boast: Our conscience testifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world, and especially in our relations with you, in the holiness and sincerity that are from God. We have done so not according to worldly wisdom but according to God's grace.
2 Corinthians 1:12-14
This is the way of God, to walk with a clear conscience. Amen, thank you Jesus that you cleanse
us and purify us from all unrighteousness, Amen.
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there is nothing wrong with, in fact we all should be striving for holiness, and walking like Jesus.
these things are NOT why many here disagree with you.
we disagree with you because you do not freely admit that while these things should be all of our goals, we at times DO NOT MEET the requirements it takes to properly do them.
that is why it is so , so important to properly define sin, so we can honestly, truthfully access if we are doing the right things the right ways.
and, we have to determine them by unchanging facts, not because we " feel " like we have.
feelings and emotions do NOT provide steady, unchanging truths.
as a human being, you can talk yourself into believing anything. that is why you have to use God's standards , not YOUR feelings.
these things are NOT why many here disagree with you.
we disagree with you because you do not freely admit that while these things should be all of our goals, we at times DO NOT MEET the requirements it takes to properly do them.
that is why it is so , so important to properly define sin, so we can honestly, truthfully access if we are doing the right things the right ways.
and, we have to determine them by unchanging facts, not because we " feel " like we have.
feelings and emotions do NOT provide steady, unchanging truths.
as a human being, you can talk yourself into believing anything. that is why you have to use God's standards , not YOUR feelings.
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