Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

there are two sorts of brances here


branches that bare fruit

"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"


and branches that do not bare fruit

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"

this is largely an example of the power of CHRIST in His own

compared to the lack of power in fakers

dont you understand when this is being said?

what judas already did and what was about to happen?


but this has NOTHING to do with the loss of salvation to a saved believer


and MUCH to do with two separate types of men in the same congregation of "believers" (in Him)

Amen......Keep swinging J hhahaha

 

[Argueless]

Wrong again Daffy Duck......God does not deal with temporal life and all the following must be lies or fail for salvation to be lost..

Christ is clear, the promises are clear, chastening, why and who is clear....

I WILL LOSE NOTHING is clear

I WILL NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE is clear

I WILL LEAVE THE 99 TO FIND THE ONE THAY WANDERS IS CLEAR

KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD IS CLEAR

CHRIST BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES THE WORK OF FAITH IS CLEAR

SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION IS CLEAR

IN BOTH THE FATHER'S HAND AND CHRIST'S HAND IS CLEAR

IRREVOCABLE AS APPLIED TO THE GIFTS AND CALLING IS CLEAR

ETERNAL LIFE IS CLEAR

EVERLASTING LIFE IS CLEAR

SANCTIFIED FOREVER IS CLEAR

IS NOT CONDEMNED IS CLEAR

GRACE OUTBOUNDING SIN IS CLEAR

PERFECT AND AORIST TENSE VERBS ARE CLEAR

INCORRUPTIBLE SEED IS CLEAR

The bible does not contradict itself....for salvation to be losable ALL OF THE ABOVE MUST BE FALSE, LIES or REJECTED.....and thay was just off the top of my head at 745 Am in Australia with no coffee yet.....there are no verses in context that teach a losable salvation.....and to boot, any salvation that can be lost totally detracts from GLORY GOING TO CHRIST AND PLACES US AND WHAT WE DO AT THE HELM..........to be frank, in my view it is satanic to devalue all the above and say I MUST KEEP MY SALVATION BY WHAT I DO or DON'T do...........

Reward comes from MITSHOS AND EQUALS PAY OR WAGES....AFTER WE ARE BKRN AGAIN FROM ABOVE BY INCORRUPRIBLE SEED our walk or lack thereof is now REWARDED and or CHASTENED depending on WHAT WE DO OR DO NOT DO! SALVATION IS SECURE REGARDLESS because it is based upon WHAT CHRIST DOES AND HAS DONE!

The WORD OF GOD is the TRUTH and never FALSE. His PROMISES He will keep and His TRUTH will prevail.

IF YOU REMAIN IN HIM, HE WILL REMAIN IN YOU...Let God be TRUE...

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

I've already given reference to Rom7:1-4 (re: "fruit unto God" and how that comes about), as well as Phil1:11 and Heb13:20-21 (same).

Here is another couple of passages:

2 Corinthians 3 -

7 But if the ministry of death, in letters engraved on stones, came with glory, so that the sons of Israel could not look intently at the face of Moses because of the glory of his face, fading as it was, 8 how will the ministry of the Spirit fail to be even more with glory? 9 For if the ministry of condemnation has glory, much more does the ministry of righteousness abound in glory. 10 For indeed what had glory, in this case has no glory because of the glory that surpasses it. 11 For if that which fades away was with glory, much more that which remains is in glory.
12 Therefore having such a hope, we use great boldness in our speech

[and]

Romans 8:2-4,9 -

2 For the law of the Spirit of LIFE IN Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:

4 That THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF the law might be fulfilled IN us [note: not BY us], who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
[…]

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.


["the righteousness OF the law" is not saying "the law" itself--see also Rom2:26 for this same phrase, where there it is speaking of those who were not given "the law" nor were "under it"]

 

[dcontroversal]

The WORD OF GOD is the TRUTH and never FALSE. His PROMISES He will keep and His TRUTH will prevail.

IF YOU REMAIN IN HIM, HE WILL REMAIN IN YOU...Let God be TRUE...

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 John 2:3-6

Seoche....Your religion keeps the blinders on.......

Born of incorruptible SEED
KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD
SAVED TO THE UTTERMOST
LOSE NOTHING BUT RAISE IT UP
NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE
I GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE

You must really serve and believe in an inept, weak god that lies and does not keep his word......and it is as obvious as MOUNT VESUVIUS BLOWING IT'S TOP AGAIN that you flat deny, reject and sweep context under the table regularly to hold a false view.....on top of being dishonest about who you are as well!!!!!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

Absolutely but games aside, I see you as another who has yet to show a belief in the gospel.
From what I have seen you believe it is up to your own choices and will to make it in to heaven.
You do not seem to believe we are saved by grace through faith and given eternal life and will in no wise be cast out.
You do seem to believe Jesus is just some starting point and it is up to you to be righteous enough to make it into heaven.
(forgive me if I have misunderstood your stance, but you are often very vague and dodge questions as well)

I do not dodge questions.
I believe we are saved by faith in Jesus, faith in the cross that we are forgiven, and faith that Jesus
shows us the path of transformation through obedience.

Our model of who we are is often incomplete. I believe it is our hearts that need to be open, be
prepared to change, be prepared to be cleansed, purified and to let the Holy Spirit in.

We are made Holy and righteous. Our walk is like a baby at first, very erratic and unstable but
as we grow and put things into practice we become more focused and strong in the ways of
God and His walk.

For me there is no righteous enough, there is a change of heart where sin is like poison.
The truth from many is their hearts are closed, their emotions ignored, and obedience rejected as
legalism. But this is not knowing Jesus or knowing His way.

If you had your closest friend give their life to save you, you would do anything for them.
This friend is God, and if he went this far one should believe what He says. If one closes ones
ears and believes His words are just to create failure, then nothing will get through.

 

[dcontroversal]

For salvation to be losable the INCORRUPTIBLE SEED we are born of must be corruptible!!!

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

"For if, being enemies, we were reconciled to God through [by means of] the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled [aorist participle passive], shall we be saved [future tense indicative passive] IN HIS LIFE!" - Romans 5:10

 

[dcontroversal]

For salvation to be lost Jesus MUST LOSE US even though he states I will lose NOTHING, BIT RAISE IT UP THE LAST DAY!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

For salvation to be lost Jesus must leave us and forsake us even though he states he will NEVER LEAVE US OR FORSAKE US!!!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

For salvation to be lost Jesus must fail when it comes to the faith that he BEGINS, FINISHES AND COMPLETES IN US!!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

For us to lose salvation Jesus must revoke the free gift of salvation/eternal life even though the bible states the gifts and calling OF GOD ARE IRREVOCABLE!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

For salvation to be lost the seal of God dia the Holy Spirit must be broken and removed even though the bible states we are SEALED UNTO THE DAY OF REDEMPTION!!!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

I doubt many who believe they are saved with an incorruptible seed have any seed at all.
Ask a simple question, which phrase of Jesus encourages you most?
When did you last think, what did Jesus do and how can I follow this behaviour?

20 if you suffer for doing good and you endure it, this is commendable before God.
21 To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.
1 Peter 2:20-21

5 May the God who gives endurance and encouragement give you a spirit of unity among yourselves as you follow Christ Jesus,
6 so that with one heart and mouth you may glorify the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.
7 Accept one another, then, just as Christ accepted you, in order to bring praise to God.
Romans 15:5-7

 

[dcontroversal]

For us to lose salvation we must be yanked from both the Heavenly Father's hand and the hand lf CHRIST even though the bible states NO MAN CAN REMOVE US FROM THE POSITION!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

For us to lose salvation Jesus must have been mistaken when he said, "I give unto them eternal life" because a salvation/LIFE that can be lost is TEMPORAL and not ETERNAL!!!

 

[dcontroversal]

For us to lose salvation the power of God must be weak and or fail because the bible states we are KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD UNTO SALVATION!!!!

 

[FollowHisSteps]

25 Jesus answered, "I did tell you, but you do not believe. The miracles I do in my Father's name speak for me,
26 but you do not believe because you are not my sheep.
27 My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me.
28 I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand.
John 10:25-28

Do you listen to Jesus? Do you hear His call to obey, to put into effect His commands so that
you might begin to lay the ways of life in your heart. It is only hard because ones heart rebels
and rejects the things of God and are closed to who Jesus is. Unless one opens your heart,
allows Him in and gives Him permission to heal, let love rule, forgive the wounds of the past
and to humble oneself to follow Him.

 

[dcontroversal]

For salvation to be lost the truth of us dying and our life is hid IN CHRIST MUST FAIL....NOTE THE WORD IN...a preposition and means WITHIN......Think on that and what must happen for that to be negated.......

 

[PennEd]

So my question to dcon is this, is it of God to detract the glory from Christ by creating disagreements, division and hatred for the opposing sides for the very purpose of reaching a certain goal, a hidden agenda behind all this roller coaster fun ride...and who gets all the glory?

One thing is for sure. If you will not stop, God is able to do anything and He sees our hearts.

...“No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. The Wise and Foolish Builders “Why do you call me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say? Luke 6:43-46 A Tree and Its Fruit

...The ax is already at the root of the trees, and every tree that does not produce good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire.” Luke 3:9

...See to it that you do not refuse him who speaks. If they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, how much less will we, if we turn away from him who warns us from heaven? Hebrews 12:25

Please don't use me, and my lighthearted post, to make YOUR divisive, hateful point.

It is people like YOU who constantly trample on the Blood of Christ with your works to gain or maintain Salvation, and the need to correct your gross error, that requires 100,000 posts.

 

[Argueless]

Seoche....Your religion keeps the blinders on.......

Born of incorruptible SEED
KEPT BY THE POWER OF GOD
SAVED TO THE UTTERMOST
LOSE NOTHING BUT RAISE IT UP
NEVER LEAVE OR FORSAKE
I GIVE THEM ETERNAL LIFE

You must really serve and believe in an inept, weak god that lies and does not keep his word......and it is as obvious as MOUNT VESUVIUS BLOWING IT'S TOP AGAIN that you flat deny, reject and sweep context under the table regularly to hold a false view.....on top of being dishonest about who you are as well!!!!!

Thank you for the edifying reply as usual. So maybe i can get a response now as to your stance about lying to the Holy Spirit based on the TRUTH of the scriptures. Thank you in advance for an edifying response, i hope.

 

[mailmandan]

John 15
1 I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.

there are two sorts of brances here

branches that bare fruit

"every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit"
"He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit"

and branches that do not bare fruit

"If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned"
"As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself"

this is largely an example of the power of CHRIST in His own

compared to the lack of power in fakers

dont you understand when this is being said?

what judas already did and what was about to happen?
but this has NOTHING to do with the loss of salvation to a saved believed

and MUCH to do with two separate types of men in the same congregation of "believers" (in Him)

Amen! As Greek scholar AT Robertson points out - Two kinds of connections with Christ as the vine (the merely cosmic which bears no fruit, the spiritual and vital which bears fruit). The fruitless (not bearing fruit, mh peron karpon) the vine-dresser "takes away" (airei) or prunes away. Probably (Bernard) Jesus here refers to Judas. https://www.biblestudytools.com/commentaries/robertsons-word-pictures/john/john-15.html