Not By Works

FollowHisSteps · Mar 19, 2019

I read on one forum the worst people the administrator had to deal with where to
total grace people.

For some reason, because they could be lawless and the state of their heart mattered
not at all they could lie, cheat, deceive, cause trouble and do anything because they
felt totally safe and whatever sinful act they thought of it could be done.

On the other side these same groups claim because they have this freedom, they will
want to follow Jesus closely because it is not out of fear but gratefulness.

Oddly I have never seen this, just picking fights with others and using any means to
create problems. And when the opposition do not budge it gets personal to the
greatest degree, because for them the opposition are not just people, they are the
worst people on the planet. It has not occured to them that maybe this preoccupation
shows the deception and authority they are under.

Our focus in Christ is Jesus and His people, learning to be light and members of encouragement
forgiveness and grace. If the Holy Spirit is flowing through us and we are maturing, it is this
fruit and example that will be shinning out into the day without restraint.

Thankyou Jesus that you confirm to our hearts you gracious gifts of love and grace and empower
us to walk this path Amen.

Argueless · Mar 19, 2019

...As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead. James 2:26

...teaching them to OBEY WHATEVER I HAVE COMMANDED YOU… Matthew 28:18-20

...And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and TO LOVE one another as he commanded us.1 John 3:23

...And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. 2 John 1:6

...For it has been granted to you on behalf of Christ NOT ONLY TO BELIEVE ON HIM, but also to suffer for him, Philippians 1:29

How can those who CLAIM to be saved thru Faith ALONE suffer for Christ if they believe and insist that no works of any sort is needed, but to believe/faith ALONE is sufficient to be saved.

Does a person who teaches obedience to God cause another person to sin by doing so?

Would any person who don't have FAITH in God teach obedience to God?

Or would the deceiver be TEACHING obedience to God as a deception? Would he not rather teach DISOBEDIENCE in His attempt to deceive the believers?

Is it not those who condemn those who teach obedience to God who DOES NOT HAVE FAITH in God and CAUSES A PERSON TO SIN?

Is it not that sin is the transgression of the law?(1 john 3:4) Is it obedience to God to break the law?

Did the Holy servants of God such as the prophets and the apostles OBEYED and taught OBEDIENCE to God?

Who then causes another person to sin?

...At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?” 2 He called a little child and had him stand among them. 3 And he said: “I tell you the truth, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven. 4 Therefore, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5 “And whoever welcomes a little child like this in my name welcomes me. 6 But IF ANYONE CAUSES ONE OF THESE LITTLE ONES WHO “BELIEVE” IN ME TO SIN, it would be better for him to have a large millstone hung around his neck and to be drowned in the depths of the sea. 7 “Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but WOE TO THE MAN THROUGH WHOM THEY COME FROM! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be THROWN INTO ETERNAL FIRE. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be THROWN INTO THE FIRE OF HELL. matthew 18:1-9

...We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4 The man who says, “I know him,” but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6 Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did. 1 john 2:3-6

...But the cowardly, the unbelieving, the vile, the murderers, the sexually immoral, those who practice magic arts, the idolaters and all liars—their place will be in the fiery lake of burning sulfur. This is the second death.” Revelation 21:8

...Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things GOD'S WRATH COMES ON THOSE WHO ARE DISOBEDIENT. ephesians 5:6

eternally-gratefull · Mar 19, 2019

Still excusing ones own sin while attacking others.

That man should be ashamed of himself

VCO · Mar 19, 2019

I just watched a documentary, that showed this Mosaic Floor, from the FIRST CENTURY, that Inscription on it proclaimed that 'THE GOD JESUS".

I also found it on this website the EXACT Mosaic FLOOR inscription, proclaiming that JESUS IS GOD. They were building an expansion

at an Israeli prison in Megiddo, when in 2005 the inmates unearthed this mosaic floor.

. . . .🡼
https://kehilanews.com/2018/03/25/ancient-mosaic-in-israel-describes-jesus-as-god/

Could someone who reads GREEK tell me what the rest of the line that starts with SAN, actually says in the GREEK. If that identifies THE GOD JESUS, it would be very interesting. It would be VERY USEFUL, because like when we had psuedo christian and that guy TRIED TO TELL US THE LIE, over a year ago, that NO ONE in the First Century Church ever thought the Doctrine of the TRINITY. If I remember right, he even said the teaching of the Doctrine of the Trinity, did not come about until the THIRD CENTURY. Oh, I wish I had this INFO back when that guy was trying to proclaim the lie that the First Century Church did not Teach that JESUS WAS GOD.

VCO · Mar 19, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

TRUE CHRISTIANS WILL ALWAYS WANT TO OBEY and WE WILL WANT TO CONFESS IT WHEN WE FAIL. Do you see, YOU LEAVE THE LOVE OUT OF THE EQUATION, when you say "If we do not obey."

John 14:15 (HCSB)
15 “If you love Me, you will keep My commands.

1 John 5:3 (HCSB)
3 For this is what love for God is: to keep His commands. Now His commands are not a burden, if you do it because you LOVE HIM.

NOW I HAVE NEWS FOR YOU, THE LINE IS NOT DENOMINATIONS, IT IS INDIVIDUAL AGAPE LOVE FOR HIM.

BESIDES, who are you to pass judgement on denominations.

CHRIST WALKS AROUND SEVEN LAMPSTANDS, which is in the First THREE Chapters of REVELATION, and are the seven TYPES of CHURCHES that have always EXISTED during this ENTIRE CHURCH AGE. I DO NOT WANT TO BE IN YOUR SHOES COME JUDGEMENT DAY, WHEN YOU HAVE CONDEMNED CHURCHES THAT HE WALKS AROUND THEIR LAMPSTAND.

Budman · Mar 19, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

When will you get it through your head that salvation is not conditional? It is based entirely on the finished work of Christ, and your "contributions" to keep yourself saved are FILTHY RAGS to God.

YourTruthGod said:

You don't obey all of His commands. If you did so, you would never sin.

Oops. I forgot. You already claimed you don't sin anymore. You just make "little mistakes" that you claim aren't sinful.

YourTruthGod said:

Well, the Bible says if you tell a single lie you will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. By your inane reasoning, if one tells a single lie after salvation, they've lost it and can never be saved again.

And don't pull your usual "if they repent, they'll be forgiven" excuse, because once the sin is committed, salvation would be lost and cannot be recovered (by your own admission).

YourTruthGod said:

"Loving" sin or not has NO BEARING on the consequences. That's like a bank robber saying to the judge; "Yeah, I robbed that bank, but I didn't love doing it, so you've got to let me off the hook".

My goodness, there are 10 year olds in our Sunday school class who could run circles around you.

YourTruthGod said:

Again, not according to your insane beliefs. If God will send someone to the Lake of Fire for a single lie. then salvation would be lost for anyone who commits a single sin after salvation. Judgment would be immediate.

YourTruthGod said:

We constantly give additional information and examples. But you, and your ilk, simply ignore them.

Budman · Mar 19, 2019

To FollowHisSteps:

Okay. We'll give you a chance to set the record straight and shut our mouths.

As God is your witness, were you previously on this site under the name "PeterJens"?

Yes or No?

Let's see if you'll practice what you preach.

VCO · Mar 19, 2019

VCO said:

MORE PICTURES of the MOSAIC FLOORING in the Prison, near Megiddo:

The stones near the center of this picture, was the low pedestal for the table, where the Congregation
would have reclined on Cushions to celebrate COMMUNION.

YourTruthGod · Mar 20, 2019

mailmandan said:

There is a difference between the Spirit’s roles in the Old and New Testaments in regards to indwelling people. The New Testament teaches the permanent indwelling of the Holy Spirit in believers (Ephesians 4:30). When we place our faith (belief, trust, reliance) in Jesus Christ alone for salvation, the Holy Spirit comes to seal us and live within us. The Apostle Paul refers to this permanent indwelling as the "guarantee of our inheritance" (Ephesians 1:13-14; 2 Corinthians 1:21-22; 5:5).

The indwelling of the Holy Spirit in the Old Testament was selective and temporary. The Spirit “came upon” such Old Testament people as Joshua (Numbers 27:18), David (1 Samuel 16:12-13) and Saul (1 Samuel 10:10). In the book of Judges, we see the Holy Spirit "coming upon" the various judges whom God raised up in order to deliver Israel from their oppressors. The Holy Spirit came upon these individuals for specific tasks, but the indwelling was not permanent. The indwelling was a sign of God’s favor upon that individual (in the case of David), and if God’s favor left an individual, the Spirit would depart.

So, while in the New Testament, the Holy Spirit only indwells believers and that indwelling is permanent, the Holy Spirit came upon certain Old Testament individuals for a specific task. Once the task was completed, the Holy Spirit departed from that person.

It is for our teaching, correcting, and rebuking.

VCO · Mar 20, 2019

YourTruthGod said:

Man your head must be thick. SALVATION TOOK PLACE THE MOMENT JESUS DECIDED HE WOULD BECOME THE SAVIOR, before the beginning of time. IT IS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD. IT SAYS SO!\

Romans 5:5 (NRSV)
5 and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.

Romans 5:15 (NRSV)
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man's trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many.

OBEDIENCE is part of our AGAPE LOVE FOR HIM. WHICH IS GOD'S LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO US THE MOMENT THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME IN, Rom 5:5. That is something we will want to do for HIM, after HE SAVED US.

SALVATION has NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR WORKS, because IT HAPPENED Before the Beginning of time.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

1 Peter 1:3-4 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.

Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

dcontroversal · Mar 20, 2019

Budman said:

When will you get it through your head that salvation is not conditional? It is based entirely on the finished work of Christ, and your "contributions" to keep yourself saved are FILTHY RAGS to God.

You don't obey all of His commands. If you did so, you would never sin.

Oops. I forgot. You already claimed you don't sin anymore. You just make "little mistakes" that you claim aren't sinful.

Well, the Bible says if you tell a single lie you will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. By your inane reasoning, if one tells a single lie after salvation, they've lost it and can never be saved again.

And don't pull your usual "if they repent, they'll be forgiven" excuse, because once the sin is committed, salvation would be lost and cannot be recovered (by your own admission).

"Loving" sin or not has NO BEARING on the consequences. That's like a bank robber saying to the judge; "Yeah, I robbed that bank, but I didn't love doing it, so you've got to let me off the hook".

My goodness, there are 10 year olds in our Sunday school class who could run circles around you.

Again, not according to your insane beliefs. If God will send someone to the Lake of Fire for a single lie. then salvation would be lost for anyone who commits a single sin after salvation. Judgment would be immediate.

We constantly give additional information and examples. But you, and your ilk, simply ignore them.

As long as he believes in his mind he has a special revelation from God.....the answer is never!!!

YourTruthGod · Mar 20, 2019

VCO said:

No one is saved until they confess, repent, have faith, and call.

VCO said:

How do you like this one:

1 Timothy 1:3 As I urged you when I went into Macedonia, stay there in Ephesus so that you may command certain people not to teach false doctrines any longer

VCO said:

Those churches are not on earth anymore.

YourTruthGod · Mar 20, 2019

Budman said:

When will you get it through your head that salvation is not conditional? It is based entirely on the finished work of Christ, and your "contributions" to keep yourself saved are FILTHY RAGS to God.

You don't obey all of His commands. If you did so, you would never sin.

Oops. I forgot. You already claimed you don't sin anymore. You just make "little mistakes" that you claim aren't sinful.

Well, the Bible says if you tell a single lie you will be thrown into the Lake of Fire. By your inane reasoning, if one tells a single lie after salvation, they've lost it and can never be saved again.

And don't pull your usual "if they repent, they'll be forgiven" excuse, because once the sin is committed, salvation would be lost and cannot be recovered (by your own admission).

"Loving" sin or not has NO BEARING on the consequences. That's like a bank robber saying to the judge; "Yeah, I robbed that bank, but I didn't love doing it, so you've got to let me off the hook".

My goodness, there are 10 year olds in our Sunday school class who could run circles around you.

Again, not according to your insane beliefs. If God will send someone to the Lake of Fire for a single lie. then salvation would be lost for anyone who commits a single sin after salvation. Judgment would be immediate.

We constantly give additional information and examples. But you, and your ilk, simply ignore them.

You really have to obey, so get over it.

YourTruthGod · Mar 20, 2019

VCO said:

Man your head must be thick. SALVATION TOOK PLACE THE MOMENT JESUS DECIDED HE WOULD BECOME THE SAVIOR, before the beginning of time. IT IS A FREE GIFT FROM GOD. IT SAYS SO!\

Romans 5:5 (NRSV)
5 and hope does not disappoint us, because God's love has been poured into our hearts through the Holy Spirit that has been given to us.

Romans 5:15 (NRSV)
15 But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died through the one man's trespass, much more surely have the grace of God and the free gift in the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abounded for the many.

OBEDIENCE is part of our AGAPE LOVE FOR HIM. WHICH IS GOD'S LOVE THAT WAS POURED INTO US THE MOMENT THE HOLY SPIRIT CAME IN, Rom 5:5. That is something we will want to do for HIM, after HE SAVED US.

SALVATION has NOTHING TO DO WITH OUR WORKS, because IT HAPPENED Before the Beginning of time.

2 Timothy 1:9 (HCSB)
9 He has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace, which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began.

Romans 11:6 (NASB)
6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.

Ephesians 2:4-5 (HCSB)
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love that He had for us,
5 made us alive with the Messiah even though we were dead in trespasses. You are saved by grace!

Ephesians 2:8-9 (HCSB)
8 For you are saved by grace through faith, and this is not from yourselves; it is God’s gift—
9 not from works, so that no one can boast.

Titus 3:5-8 (HCSB)
5 He saved us— not by works of righteousness that we had done, but according to His mercy, through the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit.
6 He poured out this ⌊Spirit⌋ on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior,
7 so that having been justified by His grace, we may become heirs with the hope of eternal life.
8 This saying is trustworthy. I want you to insist on these things, so that those who have believed God might be careful to devote themselves to good works. These are good and profitable for everyone.

1 Peter 1:3-4 (HCSB)
3 Praise the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. According to His great mercy, He has given us a new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead
4 and into an inheritance that is imperishable, uncorrupted, and unfading, kept in heaven for you.

1 John 3:14 (HCSB)
14 We know that we have passed from death to life because we love our brothers. The one who does not love remains in death.

Romans 6:23 (ASV)
23 For the wages of sin is death; but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

When Paul says 'not of works', it is about 'not of the works of the law'. That is about circumcision.

YourTruthGod · Mar 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

I prove my beliefs with scripture.

50C1AL0N3 · Mar 20, 2019

FollowHisSteps said:

How can we love to do his commandments, and count testifying a sacrifice?
I apologize for the misuse of my temper in my former post. I'm pretty sure that wasn't on the beforehand prepared good work he ordained Me to walk in.
Did you know that the early churches had absolutely no agenda for volunteering services to the fatherless and widow's, or anyone else for that matter.
Nope, the early churches we're only concerned with spreading the new truth they were not concerned with extracurricular works of the needy. What would benefit you more having an epiphany in the learning about Christ or giving a homeless guy hamburger you can judge net worth. Good work on our belief that was given to us beforehand walking. so how do you walk in Good Works? Good works are our belief. Good works concerning the good news by the goodness of God for good Lord. We are not intended body's trying to overextend our righteousness to help others so much presents as Godly aura that is the epitome and bottom shelf of purebred self-righteousness hidden in Pride.
but anyhow I apologize for the hostility

FollowHisSteps · Mar 20, 2019

50C1AL0N3 said:

I agree with you, that the church was primarily concerned with walking the way and sharing this truth
with others. But put yourself in this society. No social support services, no pension provision, a rural farming
community with trading routes.

So you have a loving community with couples coming to faith. The men die leaving widows.
People in the community both poor and rich side by side with the principle of love to all, we are brothers and
sisters in Christ. Yet as one starves the other has a good easy life. So Paul and apostles set up a widows list
to make sure the widows are cared for. And then parents die, leaving orphans, who need adopting and helping.
So it does not take long where the needs of the christian community include social care and welfare.
When you begin to love and empathise with people, you find small things can make a big difference.
So a good work can be just making time for someone, and showing you love them. It can be just helping them
with something they find hard and you can do with little effort.

Learning to just serve and give, is part of being Christ to the world. And this is not because of wanting to appear
good, it is just knowing this is Gods will. Jesus became nothing and washed our feet. Status is not important,
showing love and support is. Jesus is our example, He saw a need and met it. God bless you

FollowHisSteps · Mar 20, 2019

Budman said:

You are so desperate

So this is what it comes down to, the hatred is so bad, the only thing
you have is, are you so and so ..........

Funnily enough being a follower of Jesus and knowing Him is what we are,
no more, no less.

The pharisees asked Jesus for a miracle to prove who He was and His reply was

A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a miraculous sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah.
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now one greater than Jonah is here.
Matt 12:39-41

FollowHisSteps · Mar 20, 2019

1 Everything is evil unless done in the Spirit, makes trusting in someones sincerity or honesty impossible.

This is an interesting idea. Morality is not defined by evil deeds or good deeds but is a good deed done
by a believer.

Now God when he looked at the world of Noah, what did he say

The LORD saw how great man's wickedness on the earth had become, and that every inclination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil all the time.
The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was filled with pain.
So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face of the earth-men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them."
Gen 6:5-7

Jonah's preaching was sent because of what, behaviour or belief?

He proclaimed: "Forty more days and Nineveh will be overturned."
The Ninevites believed God. They declared a fast, and all of them, from the greatest to the least, put on sackcloth.
When the news reached the king of Nineveh, he rose from his throne, took off his royal robes, covered himself with sackcloth and sat down in the dust.
Jonah 3:4-6

When God saw what they did and how they turned from their evil ways, he had compassion and did not bring upon them the destruction he had threatened.
Jonah 3:10

Cornelius

The angel answered, "Your prayers and gifts to the poor have come up as a memorial offering before God. Now send men to Joppa to bring back a man named Simon who is called Peter
Acts 10:5

Repentance from evil deeds not forthcoming

The rest of mankind that were not killed by these plagues still did not repent of the work of their hands; they did not stop worshiping demons, and idols of gold, silver, bronze, stone and wood--idols that cannot see or hear or walk.
Nor did they repent of their murders, their magic arts, their sexual immorality or their thefts
Rev 9:20-21

God is concerned about peoples behaviour, doing good things or evil things.
Faith in God through Jesus leads us to doing good things, but Gods concern is with behaviour.

Once you say man cannot have honesty or integrity, you make everyone evil other than your
own group and refuse to accept Gods word or the truth sent from Him or simple love shown
by anyone. You become a condemner of the good and the righteous, a sinner who sins against
the living God, not being able to accept His forgiveness or redemption.

Repentance and humbleness is the only way out of this trap, because without it you will
always stay in the dark.

FollowHisSteps · Mar 20, 2019

dcontroversal said:

the only ones preaching against truth

This is such a cult type statement. We the group have the truth and you are the enemy.
Every person has their views and compromises. Some maybe sound some certainly are not.

Two friends George Whitfield and Charles Wesley were great friends yet theologically they fell out.
As was described by Whitfield after some time away he returned to find,
"many of my spiritual children … will neither hear, see, nor give me the least assistance: Yes, some of them send threatening letters that God will speedily destroy me. ”

So heart felt disputes have long been part of our walk and expression.
And each side often claim they have the truth.

What I recognise is God's love moves many people and what matters is God's
word is alive in the heart of anyone. So I say God bless you if that is your walk
and you are walking toward a Christ likeness, amen.

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