Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

I have heard cuss words on a pulpit. I have used them in my own teachings if a point needs to be made that using nice words cannot get my point across.

If people are offended. Thats too bad. They should be more offended by true sin, and the false teachers who want to lead people away from christ.

Well. Thats been the problem with much of the church for years.

Amen.....be offended about the right things.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Just a General statement statement and not applied or implied to anyone, including DCON

A shepherd that has to resort to being like a wolf to combat wolves does not make make him a protector of sheep, It makes him compromised. The Apostle Paul never had to be a wolf or wolf like to protect his sheep.


I am not perfect myself at all, and I still SIN. I do make every effort through the Holy Spirit to be the light and the salt. Using profanity was harder for me to get over than smoking cigarettes and I did both very well.

Wise as a serpent and harmless as a dove......the Shepherd carries a staff and a sword for a reason.....!

 

[Ralph-]

Do me a favor my friend, Take your self righteous crap someplace else.

1. You are not God
2. You do not know the situation in all churches
3. Jesus himself used those words (a fact you seem to be hiding) because he knew they were needed

God is not going to strike a pastor who uses what people consider to be a cuss word anymore than he is going to strike a believer who is supposed to be representing God who is out drinking with some friend, and happens to have 1 to many.

I am done with this, If you want to condemn DC. Go ahead. I tried to help you/. But you can not help a person who does not think they need help

I grew up is self righteous churches who condemned and judged others because they drank, smoked, would cuss, women who wore jeans, men who had long hair etc etc etc. And those churches were dead churches. And people were so af5raid (myself included) to do anything, we would go into secret and hide our sins we struggled with and could not get help out of fear of being judged.

to me, it is refreshing to see a pastor who is on fire and wants to make a point (especially if his church needs to hear it because they are struggling with it) and yells out a 4 letter word to wake people up. It wakes people up. I have seen nothing but positive reaction from the audience when this happens in context (not saying we should do it all the time. And guess what. After church what do you think the discussion is? That the pastor said a 4 letter word? No. The point he was trying to make.

I'd walk out on a pastor or Bible study leader who purposely used the s word. I wouldn't even wait until "all eyes closed, heads down" prayer time to do that like I usually do when I realize I'm in a loser church. I'd hit the door immediately.

Leaders of the flock, if they really are leaders, really do have a higher responsibility to live good lives. They are to be examples to the flock. If they don't have self control that is not being what Peter said to be in 1 Peter 5:3. They are not God's appointed leaders. They show that by their lives.

One time I went to a house church when I was looking for a church to attend. I walked into a house completely and utterly choked with the smell of tobacco. I figured if the leadership can't get a grip on a vice like smoking why should I expect to learn anything about growing up into the obedience of faith and victory over the flesh from them? I never went back. Sometimes you don't have to have the Spirit of discernment to know a false teacher from a real one. Their lives say all you need to know. The presence of the Spirit is most easily discerned by the fruit of the Spirit. No fruit-no Spirit. They can preach all they want about Jesus. But they show by their lives that they do not know him. They have service, but they do not have obedience. If they stay that way they'll be toast when Jesus comes back.

 

[dcontroversal]

David, I admire your persistence and perseverance in extolling the gospel of Christ. I greatly appreciate the fact that you steadfastly stand for the Truth; I love you as a brother in Christ. Surely your patience is tried to the max with some of the people who come here specifically to try to tear you down. I am sorry that there are those who are not forgiving when you show human frailties and failings. Praise God we are being perfected in Him! It is a life long process. How much we have to look forward to when we will no longer have to deal with the issue of sin, neither our own, nor others. That is truly something to look forward to! Come LORD Jesus.

Amen and back at ya sista Purple hahaha

 

[dcontroversal]

Philippians 3:8
8 Indeed, I count everything as loss because of the surpassing worth of knowing Christ Jesus my Lord. For his sake I have suffered the loss of all things and count them as rubbish, in order that I may gain Christ


skybalon/skubala (rubbish)

[FONT=&quot]The Greek word translated as “rubbish” is skybalon, but that’s not the most accurate translation of the Greek. Skybalon is a dirty word in Greek, and our lovely wholesome translators have really dulled the translation down. What does it mean? The NET Bible translates it as “dung”, which is still not quite the full meaning. The NET Bible note on verse 8’s “dung” says:[/FONT]

The word here translated “dung” was often used in Greek as a vulgar term for fecal matter. As such it would most likely have had a certain shock value for the readers. This may well be Paul’s meaning here, especially since the context is about what the fleshproduces.


[FONT=&quot]Skybalon was a vulgar term! It has been found in ancient graffiti and in manuscripts linking it as pure profanity! Paul purposefully uses a vulgar and offensive term in his letter in order to grab the attention of his readers and get into their faces. (thinkhebrew.wordpress.com)


[/FONT]
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It seems from the above they Paul used a word that was considered vulgar, basically s**t
Now if the above is true he has used a word that seems to be offensive.
I think for me to cuss or use what is considered a swear word is one that is used against a person.

So if the above word us s**t the Paul is saying "Everything I have lost is s**t and indeed it should be because the s**t I have lost had been replaced by Jesus"

In a nutshell "Everything not of Jesus is s**t.

We did have a preacher who used the S word in a evening sermon once. Brief pause then he said "having looked out I want to ask how many of you are offended that I used that word, how many of you are upset I used that word, don't raise hands but if you were does that upset you more than the people God has given you to proclaim the gospel to are going to hell?

I'm not an advocate of gratuitous profanity I must admit.

My mother uses the f word a lot.
I was off the mind set that if was a swear word and to be honest it upset me.
As I thought about it and prayed about it I realised the majority of the time it was "Well F me"
It was in fact to her an element of surprise, that's all.


Funnily enough since she became a Christian she hardly uses that word, I think mainly because she was aware I would not visit with my kids because of the ways words she would use. Not that the word to her was swear word but because she knew they may hear it and bigger blur it out in school or to a friend because they would find it offensive.

Hope the above makes some sense.

Amen Bill.....imagine most in churches today if we defined and used the words that are accurately portrayed in the statement "filthy rags" <--applied to our works before God....little old ladies passing out and fallin off "da" pews......

 

[dcontroversal]

Revelation says the righteous acts created the fine linen you wear in heaven. Its also written, faith without works is dead.
Christ saves, but what is He saving , if people wont listen to His words ? ? ? God rewards those that work for Him .

[h=3]Matthew 25:40[/h]You might be concerned with Just getting there. But that wont discount the rewards those who have worked hard for Him will receive .

Badeebadeebadee......really??????

 

[dcontroversal]

I believe context is king and the context of Phil 3:8 does not match the proposed defense. I appreciate your thoughts and it does make sense. Teachers and preachers have a greater accountability and the love in their heart should outgrow their flesh and its passions.

I watched a young minister once that using s**t , D**N, C**P, F me, A** H**E , SOB Mother Fer and a few other words in a service held at a hard core biker rally. The women and kids walked out first, then slowly the men did. The service ended before it started[figure of speech]. Now this minister was using the words in a jovial way and trying to be relevant and cool with the bikers and their families. Many that left simply said, its OK if I use that language and even around my old lady and kids, but it is not cool at all for preachers to and especially in front of my old lady and kids. We expect you guys to be different.

I am offended...you spelled out cuss words in a bible forum to make a point.....there is a word on the tip of my tongue...it comes from two Greek words and the English translation starts with a H AND ENDS WITH A E...........! P.S. not really offended but the boot fits!

 

[Ralph-]

Amen Bill.....imagine most in churches today if we defined and used the words that are accurately portrayed in the statement "filthy rags" <--applied to our works before God....little old ladies passing out and fallin off "da" pews......

So basically you're saying to people from the pulpit that you do not have to clean up your language as part of growing up into the righteousness of Christ. This is a good example of what went wrong with the church these last 20 years or so. Lot's of people coming to Christ for the get out of jail free card, and amen for that card, but not being told about the wanting to be different people part of the gospel. So now we have fake 'believers' taking over the church. So-called believers who think all you have to do is believe Jesus forgives your sin for nothing (which he does) while rejecting the part about having the obligation to walk in the Spirit (Romans 8:12) and to be transformed by what you have received.

 

[dcontroversal]

What a bunch of potty mouths... LOL

I am offended......you said potty...............

 

[dcontroversal]

I have to say brother.

One of the highlights of being in this forum for the last 10 months is you.

Seeing a babe in Jesus grow.
Moving from immaturity to growing into maturity.

I have seen such a change in you and it justs brings a joy to my heart.
Keep pressing on and keep pressing in l

I genuinely believe God is going to use you.
You have been a real blessing to me.

Your brother

Bill

I second that.....Mr Mcgeee has been a blessing.....

 

[dcontroversal]

So are you preaching to save those who believe?

Don't you know that preaching the Gospel is a work of service to God and without those preaching it no one will be saved? So can you still say that works are not required for salvation?

I bet you would unless you really were SENT BY GOD otherwise you're just another false teacher claiming to know God but denying Him with your actions.

Preachers are part of the body of Christ which is the church, doing what they see their Father doing and tells them to do.

1 Thessalonians 3:2 We sent Timothy, who is our brother and God’s fellow worker in spreading the gospel of Christ, to strengthen and encourage you in your faith,

Philippians 2:22 But you know that Timothy has proved himself, because as a son with his father he has served with me in the work of the gospel.

Ephesians 4:11-13 It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers, to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.(ref: romans 12:4-8, 1 corinthians chapter 12)

Romans 10:8-17 But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: That if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved. As the Scripture says, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be put to shame.” For there is no difference between Jew and Gentile—the same Lord is Lord of all and richly blesses all who call on him, for, “Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.” How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them? And how can they preach unless they are sent? As it is written, “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” But not all the Israelites accepted the good news. For Isaiah says, “Lord, who has believed our message?” Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word of Christ.

I will always say works do not save, keep saved, embellish salvation....Salvation itself is by faith alone and a one off eternal event......!!

 

[Ralph-]

Amen Bill.....imagine most in churches today if we defined and used the words that are accurately portrayed in the statement "filthy rags" <--applied to our works before God....little old ladies passing out and fallin off "da" pews......

Apparently you do not know this is a reference to the law about how a woman's monthly flow makes her unclean. Are you trying to say the prophet was going for shock value by saying something filthy, and since he did it it's okay for preachers to do that? Hardly. If you knew the law you'd know that's not what he was doing.

 

[Ralph-]

I will always say works do not save, keep saved, embellish salvation....Salvation itself is by faith alone and a one off eternal event......!!

....and if you do not have works then you are not really saved!

You keep leaving off that part.

 

[dcontroversal]

2 Timothy 3:15-17 and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Sure.....no one disputes this.....it is the works saves or keeps saved part that makes the proverbial DUNG HILL

 

[dcontroversal]

Look up the Word skubala in the Greek. Paul used it. And it was considered a "swear word" in the time frame. It made people sit up and pay attention. For the legalist, well, they just couldn't stand the 'profanity', tore down the messenger, and rode out on their high horse.

Amen......10 to 1 God is not offended

 

[dcontroversal]

How much/many justifying works does a person need to be saved when Jesus returns, I need specifics please, as in a numerical quantity?

According to the workers for....one more........

 

[Ralph-]

Sure.....no one disputes this.....it is the works saves or keeps saved part that makes the proverbial DUNG HILL

And so that means you don't have to have works when Jesus comes back! Bravo, dcontroversial! The new eternal security teaching of the church. It's exactly what itching ears want to hear.

If you don't have works you're not even saved in the first place for your teaching about getting saved and staying saved to even matter.

 

[dcontroversal]

What is really interesting is the idea of being saved "when He comes back." There are multitudes of saved people and have died. There may be multitudes, in this generation, that are saved and die.

Is everybody in limbo of salvation until He comes back? I think NOT.

Amen.....not to mention that biblically.....eternal salvation is a current, present possession grammatically and according to Greek verb tense.....but hey....who cares what the bible states or proves........

 

[dcontroversal]

You must not have ever read Matthew 7:19-23 then. We see there that fruitfulness and lawful obedience are not your works of ministry.

These people who Jesus will reject when he comes back had works of service in the name of Christ but did not have fruitful works of obedience to the law (do not commit adultery, do not lie, do not hate, etc.).

Phuman, Go and learn what this means, 'I desire mercy, not sacrifice'. Obedience is better than sacrifice.

The sacrifice of your service to God in the church will never replace or make up for your lack of lawful obedience.
I've noticed that for all the people who get unraveled over having to be obedient, they are very active in church ministries, being deacons, leading Bible studies, witnessing, giving, etc. They don't realize that when they use Matthew 7 to bash believers who say you have to be obedient to be saved when Jesus comes back, calling them works salvationists, that they are using the very passage of scripture that will condemn them on the day of Christ's return. They have works of service but are lawless and have no works of obedience.

Blah blah blah.....open your eyes...they were NEVER SAVED YET CLAIMED TO BE AND OFFERED THEIR WORKS AS PROOF....another cake taker

 

[Ralph-]

Amen.....not to mention that biblically.....eternal salvation is a current, present possession grammatically and according to Greek verb tense.....but hey....who cares what the bible states or proves........

but a salvation you do not currently possess if you can't show it by your ever increasing works.

You can argue all you want about not being able to lose salvation or not, but if you're not even saved to begin with as shown by having no works, it don't matter if you can lose salvation or not. What counts is that you are saved and have the life to show for it on the day Jesus comes back.