Not By Works
- Thread starter dcontroversal
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This formas a contradiction,,
If works must be required to "keep us saved" (you said it was wrong to say that) then works are what saves us.
in other words, we are not really saved when we are saved, God gave us a down payment, And said, Ok I save you, made you alive, gave you eternal life, etc etc. But this is just a down payment to get you to work. If you do not work, I will take it back or you have forfeited it (same difference)
Do you kick your child out of your family when they turn into a period of sin? And what makes you think you as a human is any better than that person (in Gods eyes) what about your own sin? Is your sin somehow less than their sin?
Paul is not running a race tryign to get or be saved, He is trying to run a race to get rewards for leading others to Christ. He does not want to become a disqualified teacher..
any one of us, including Paul, if we stand according to the law stands condemned. We can not earn salvation by trying to be good, we can never be good enough. But we can turn out our light, we can lose our testimony, We can lose our ability to teach others.
This is what Paul was worried about. Not losing salvation.
You just made salvation by works,, Yet earlier you said it is not of works,, Which is it?
Because you are adding your part (works) and trying to save yourself. Your declaring Christs part (the cross) was not enough. Your in reality saying Christ died in vein, why did he have to die, if we could just change our liveds and save yourself?
And finally, Your boasting. and can take credit for saving yourself. Because you did your part. and worked hard.. That takes alot of praise glory and honor away from Christ.
No thank you.
Are we talking about being saved or how a child of God acts.. It seems you have went from one topic to the other..
To continue to learn and trust God, and love and serve others..
Now you are back to the beginning, This is what we have been saying all along. That works ARE a given to ALL WHO ARE born again.
Perfection is not a given.. Until we are glorified.
so now confusion spreads in..
If works must be required to "keep us saved" (you said it was wrong to say that) then works are what saves us.
in other words, we are not really saved when we are saved, God gave us a down payment, And said, Ok I save you, made you alive, gave you eternal life, etc etc. But this is just a down payment to get you to work. If you do not work, I will take it back or you have forfeited it (same difference)
Do you kick your child out of your family when they turn into a period of sin? And what makes you think you as a human is any better than that person (in Gods eyes) what about your own sin? Is your sin somehow less than their sin?
Paul is not running a race tryign to get or be saved, He is trying to run a race to get rewards for leading others to Christ. He does not want to become a disqualified teacher..
any one of us, including Paul, if we stand according to the law stands condemned. We can not earn salvation by trying to be good, we can never be good enough. But we can turn out our light, we can lose our testimony, We can lose our ability to teach others.
This is what Paul was worried about. Not losing salvation.
You just made salvation by works,, Yet earlier you said it is not of works,, Which is it?
Because you are adding your part (works) and trying to save yourself. Your declaring Christs part (the cross) was not enough. Your in reality saying Christ died in vein, why did he have to die, if we could just change our liveds and save yourself?
And finally, Your boasting. and can take credit for saving yourself. Because you did your part. and worked hard.. That takes alot of praise glory and honor away from Christ.
No thank you.
Are we talking about being saved or how a child of God acts.. It seems you have went from one topic to the other..
To continue to learn and trust God, and love and serve others..
Now you are back to the beginning, This is what we have been saying all along. That works ARE a given to ALL WHO ARE born again.
Perfection is not a given.. Until we are glorified.
so now confusion spreads in..
E
James said,,
If I claim to have faith (If I go around telling the world, I have faith in God and thus I am saved)
But I have no work (If I am a hearer of the word, but not a doer)
Can my "claimed" faith save me?
No.. why?
My faith is dead, A dead faith is no faith at all. what I may have is mere belief or mental agreement, but it is not faith.
Paul said we are saved by by grace through faith, not works,, Thus if we have no faith, we are not saved.
E
Holy means set apart.. A child of his is Holy because he is his child.. Just like a child of a VIP is considered seperate from most people just because of who their father is.
then their is holiness in how we act. Do we act like our fathers children, He said be holy, as God is holy, We should do this.
Not to stay saved, not to keep salvation, but because we are saved.. This is what empowers us, not the law.. The law can only condemn. and no matter how holy we think we are, even if we are truly a morally upright person.. The law would still condemn us where we stand. Because we are not perfect.
I am fairly confident that most on this site give all the glory to God....except maybe the 'cake takers" and "workers for"...........like the Plenteous in Number that come before Jesus boasting in their many wonderful works as their ticket to enter the kingdom.......their boast is in themselves and their works...NOT JESUS......
