Not By Works

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dcontroversal said:
Lie upon lie pal....and all sin is covered under the blood...wake up spongebob...go peddle your lies and diatribe some place else....the bolded above are lies that I have never said nor implied....and I am not your friend pal....!
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Oh how they love to excuse their own sin, Then yell we love our sin, Ironic,, while denying their own.
 
FranC said:
Where does the problem come in? Here. You said:

I, EG, Mailmandan, ETC....have never denied that one who is saved will produce fruit and or works.....the contention is and has been do the works save us or keep us saved and the answer is NO

You ask do the works save us, NO. And this is right.
You ask do the works keep us saved, NO. And this is wrong.
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This formas a contradiction,,

If works must be required to "keep us saved" (you said it was wrong to say that) then works are what saves us.

in other words, we are not really saved when we are saved, God gave us a down payment, And said, Ok I save you, made you alive, gave you eternal life, etc etc. But this is just a down payment to get you to work. If you do not work, I will take it back or you have forfeited it (same difference)

THIS is where the big misunderstanding is.

You say that you and EG and Mailman all agree that after being saved, our faith PRODUCES good works.

Now, let's say we're saved and born again.
But we decide not to do works.

We're nasty on the job.
We treat our family badly.
We disrespect people, our parents.
We refuse to help the poor.
We're arrogant and prideful.

Do we CONTINUE to be saved?
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Do you kick your child out of your family when they turn into a period of sin? And what makes you think you as a human is any better than that person (in Gods eyes) what about your own sin? Is your sin somehow less than their sin?


What do you think of 1 Corinthians 9:27?

1 Corinthians 9:27New American Standard Bible (NASB)

27 but I [a]discipline my body and make it my slave, so that, after I have preached to others, I myself will not be disqualified.

Paul is running the race and is saying that even HE could be disqualified if he does not do his job and preach the gospel and stay alert and live a sloppy life.
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Paul is not running a race tryign to get or be saved, He is trying to run a race to get rewards for leading others to Christ. He does not want to become a disqualified teacher..

any one of us, including Paul, if we stand according to the law stands condemned. We can not earn salvation by trying to be good, we can never be good enough. But we can turn out our light, we can lose our testimony, We can lose our ability to teach others.

This is what Paul was worried about. Not losing salvation.

You just made salvation by works,, Yet earlier you said it is not of works,, Which is it?



What is wrong with saying that we are to do our part once we're saved?
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Because you are adding your part (works) and trying to save yourself. Your declaring Christs part (the cross) was not enough. Your in reality saying Christ died in vein, why did he have to die, if we could just change our liveds and save yourself?

And finally, Your boasting. and can take credit for saving yourself. Because you did your part. and worked hard.. That takes alot of praise glory and honor away from Christ.

No thank you.

Are we not responsible persons? Can we not accept the responsibility that comes with belonging to the Kingdom?
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Are we talking about being saved or how a child of God acts.. It seems you have went from one topic to the other..
Are there any responsibilities in belonging to the Kingdom?
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To continue to learn and trust God, and love and serve others..

If the tree itself makes us produce the good fruit, which is works, why not accept the fact that works are a given if we are born again?
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Now you are back to the beginning, This is what we have been saying all along. That works ARE a given to ALL WHO ARE born again.

Perfection is not a given.. Until we are glorified.

so now confusion spreads in..
 
FranC said:
EXACTLY!

This is my Whole point. What is the argument about anyway?
If we all agree that works will follow being saved by faith alone,
then where is the difference? §What are we talking about here?

If we don't do the works, are you saying the person is not saved?
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James said,,

If I claim to have faith (If I go around telling the world, I have faith in God and thus I am saved)

But I have no work (If I am a hearer of the word, but not a doer)

Can my "claimed" faith save me?

No.. why?

My faith is dead, A dead faith is no faith at all. what I may have is mere belief or mental agreement, but it is not faith.

Paul said we are saved by by grace through faith, not works,, Thus if we have no faith, we are not saved.
 
FranC said:
EG,
Who's going to hell?
What leads to hell?
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Anyone who does not place their faith in the work of Christ, and that alone for salvation.

add one thing to the cross. and you have perverted the gospel. and made it no gospel at all..
 
FranC said:
Well, you don't lose salvation by not working. There could be a reason why you don't do any works. If you're not doing them because you've abandoned God that's a Whole different matter.

However, I'd like to ask you what Holy or Holiness means. You've used the word a few times.
What does it mean to you to be holy?
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Holy means set apart.. A child of his is Holy because he is his child.. Just like a child of a VIP is considered seperate from most people just because of who their father is.

then their is holiness in how we act. Do we act like our fathers children, He said be holy, as God is holy, We should do this.

Not to stay saved, not to keep salvation, but because we are saved.. This is what empowers us, not the law.. The law can only condemn. and no matter how holy we think we are, even if we are truly a morally upright person.. The law would still condemn us where we stand. Because we are not perfect.
 
Child_Of_God777 said:
I posted the video for God, Give Him Glory!
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I am fairly confident that most on this site give all the glory to God....except maybe the 'cake takers" and "workers for"...........like the Plenteous in Number that come before Jesus boasting in their many wonderful works as their ticket to enter the kingdom.......their boast is in themselves and their works...NOT JESUS......
 
eternally-gratefull said:
Anyone who does not place their faith in the work of Christ, and that alone for salvation.

add one thing to the cross. and you have perverted the gospel. and made it no gospel at all..
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AMEN...the biggest addition------->WORKS

Galatians 1 and 3 -->faith and works for = false gospel, no power and double cursed........plain as day
 
eternally-gratefull said:

Holy means set apart.. A child of his is Holy because he is his child.. Just like a child of a VIP is considered seperate from most people just because of who their father is.

then their is holiness in how we act. Do we act like our fathers children, He said be holy, as God is holy, We should do this.

Not to stay saved, not to keep salvation, but because we are saved.. This is what empowers us, not the law.. The law can only condemn. and no matter how holy we think we are, even if we are truly a morally upright person.. The law would still condemn us where we stand. Because we are not perfect.
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Romans is clear....the righteousness without the law is manifested in Jesus.....and by faith we are rendered innocent "justified" before GOD
 
FranC said:
You don't look thick.
You look just about ready to put in the oven...

If we could just get that remote and beer out of your wings.
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No chance, leave the remote alone.
oh my beer is empty, can you get me another one.
Ta
 
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