Not By Works

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
I think the point which can be lost is the view of what is sin, what makes us worthy.

Alone, apart from God, We are unworthy,, As God looks into the mercy seat, he sees the law, and all the things which are contrary to us in our daily lives,, And for that and that alone, we would be condemned.

However when Jesus spilt his blood on the mercy seat, when God looks down on our daily lives, He sees the blood of his son, The things against us, contrary to us, and which would condemn us as we stand, are not seen.. The redemption has been applied.. We are seen as innocent.

As paul said in colossians, Christ took the things which were against us, Contrary to us, which condemned us, and nailed them to the cross..


As I think UTAH, or GB9 has been stressing, If we do not realise what real sin is, we will never understand and think we are worthy when we are not.
So when God looks into us he sees the law ? Is that Biblical lol.

Seariously if he saw that then why would he need to plant it ? hahahahaha

You know he sees his d.n.a and also his beloved.. He also sees a kind heart and a not so kind heart..

Does this mean you are the done deal if ye are wordly ?

I mean your responce just speak of humanity as missrable Law givers and taker..

Ahhh ahhhh matey its more than that humanity is kind loving and most definately worthy,, it just a shame you havent jumped on the gravy train :rolleyes:
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
There is a simple problem if we stay unworthy of communion, then how can we grow as co-heirs
with Christ, just false disciples still struggling with sin and not walking in love.

Now if this is your reality maybe you need to refocus, and humble yourself before the King.
I think youll find if ye do not recieve comunnion ye are ex comunicated.. Not a place i would wanna be.. :)
 
Mar 7, 2016
4,678
24
0
I cannot even get past point one....which you twist and embellish Jimmy

I never said I have no hope....just that I believe the biblical version of hope as opposed to your worldly I just bought a lottery ticket hope.....

You really should study the definitions of the words as BIBLICALLY applied by God and inspired by GOD....the hope of the bible is a CONFIDENT EXPECTATION of something GUARANTEED....not the type of HOPE like I bought a lottery ticket and hope to win the prize....the prize (FREE GIFT) is guaranteed in JESUS and this is what you miss JIM by devaluing the word HOPE!
Expectation and hope are not the same my friend and i know if you think hard on this you will draw the conclusion if one expects he not hoping... But revelling...in the miar
 
Last edited:
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
No sir, I haven't changed my mind because I haven't changed my understanding of the word of God.
Yes, I believe in eternal security... when your life is over in this world.
What I'm having difficulty with is how you stand on the word of God for eternal security scriptures, which is a good thing, but fail to do the same for most of the others.
Yes, there are promises for eternal life, I don't know about eternal security, but there are just as many promises that warn us that we could lose the same, if.... and then the bible lists the conditions.
Unlike you and those who believe as you do, I can't ignore the promises that would call into question your eternal security doctrine.
Just about everything I wrote, I backed up with scripture. Of which you conveniently ignored, even making it sound as though I never wrote anything. Your tactics appear to be crafty, to say the least. I could not agree with someone like that.
Our works of faith are very much like driving a motor vehicle. We press the gas peddle, expecting to move forward, and God provides the power to move forward. We turn the steering wheel in the the direction we want to travel, and God provides the power to steer. We hit the brakes to slow down and eventually stop, and God provides the power to slow down and stop the vehicle. The person is the initiator, and the vehicle provides the power. In like manner, we chose, many times the direction to take while seeking God's wisdom, and He provides the strength, ability, power, and the like, in the situation that we are incapable of taking care of in our own strengths, abilities, and power.
Like I said, with many things that are done in faith, we are the initiators, and God provides the power, because, when I am weak He is strong, and His strength is made perfect in my weakness or inability to fix the situation or condition.
This is not to say that we don't follow God's leading. We do.
And I'm sure my saying that we are the initiators of God's move in our lives through our acts of faith, is offensive to you, because you always wait for God to initiate or do something first and then you follow, as though you're along for the ride. God doesn't always work like that in every situation.
Part of your problem is that you don't know who is doing the initiating. Many people of God blame God for what the devil did, that they sanctioned. You don't even realize that many of your problems were caused by your own words and actions of faith in the negative and in the natural, thereby sanctioning the devil to do his dirty work on you and your loved ones.
So I say this again. Faith works in both the negative and positive sides of various situations. Faith is not only for causing good to come about, it can be toward the negative or for evil as well.
Remember, both DEATH and life is in the power of your tongue. Faith isn't just about doing good.

Then we will never agree.

and in my view....

1. You do not believe in eternal security
2. You are trying to save yourself
3. You make God out to be a liar. (He says you HAVE eternal life, and WILL never die, You said he said you can still die, And your life is conditional; not eternal.

Good luck in trying to save yourself..

I will continue to trust in Christ.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Malachi 2:17 The Day of Judgment You have wearied the Lord with your words. “How have we wearied him?” you ask. By saying, “All who do evil are good in the eyes of the Lord, and he is pleased with them” or “Where is the God of justice?”
Malachi 3:13-18 “You have said harsh things against me,” says the Lord. “Yet you ask, ‘What have we said against you?’ “You have said, ‘It is futile to serve God. What did we gain by carrying out his requirements and going about like mourners before the Lord Almighty? But now we call the arrogant blessed. Certainly the evildoers prosper, and even those who challenge God escape.’” Then those who feared the Lord talked with each other, and the Lord listened and heard. A scroll of remembrance was written in his presence concerning those who feared the Lord and honored his name. “They will be mine,” says the Lord Almighty, “in the day when I make up my treasured possession. I will spare them, just as in compassion a man spares his son who serves him. And you will again see the distinction between the righteous and the wicked, between those who serve God and those who do not.
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Matthew 12:33-37 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the DAY OF JUDGMENT for every CARELESS WORD they have spoken. FOR BY YOUR WORDS you will be ACQUITTED, and by your words you will be CONDEMNED.”

Matthew 7:15-27 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. EVERY TREE THAT DOES NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT IS CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. “NOT EVERYONE who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT ONLY HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you EVILDOERS!’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it DID NOT FALL, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and DOES NOT put them into PRACTICE is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it FELL WITH A GREAT CRASH.”

James 1:22-27 But be ye DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a mirror; for he beholdeth himself, and then goeth his way and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY and CONTINUETH therein, he being not a forgetful hearer but a DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. Pure religion, undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

2 Timothy 2:14-16,23-26 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to show thyself approved unto God, a WORKMAN who needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH. But shun profane and vain babblings, for they will increase unto more ungodliness, BUT FOOLISH AND UNLEARNED QUESTIONS AVOID, knowing that they engender strifes. AND THE SERVANT OF THE LORD MUST NOT ENGENDER STRIFE, but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those in opposition. Perhaps God will give them repentance, THAT THEY MAY ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH, and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.
 

valiant

Senior Member
Mar 22, 2015
8,025
126
63
Matthew 12:33-37 “Make a tree good and its fruit will be good, or make a tree bad and its fruit will be bad, for a tree is recognized by its fruit. You brood of vipers, how can you who are evil say anything good? For out of the overflow of the heart the mouth speaks. The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in him, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in him. But I tell you that men will have to give account on the DAY OF JUDGMENT for every CARELESS WORD they have spoken. FOR BY YOUR WORDS you will be ACQUITTED, and by your words you will be CONDEMNED.”

Matthew 7:15-27 “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thorn bushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. EVERY TREE THAT DOES NOT BEAR GOOD FRUIT IS CUT DOWN AND THROWN INTO THE FIRE. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them. “NOT EVERYONE who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, BUT ONLY HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you EVILDOERS!’ “Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and PUTS THEM INTO PRACTICE is like a wise man who built his house on the rock. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house; yet it DID NOT FALL, because it had its foundation on the rock. But everyone who hears these words of mine and DOES NOT put them into PRACTICE is like a foolish man who built his house on sand. The rain came down, the streams rose, and the winds blew and beat against that house, and it FELL WITH A GREAT CRASH.”

James 1:22-27 But be ye DOERS OF THE WORD AND NOT HEARERS ONLY, deceiving your own selves. For if any be a hearer of the Word and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a mirror; for he beholdeth himself, and then goeth his way and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was. But whoso looketh into the PERFECT LAW OF LIBERTY and CONTINUETH therein, he being not a forgetful hearer but a DOER OF THE WORK, this man shall be blessed in his deed. If any man among you seem to be religious and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man’s religion is vain. Pure religion, undefiled before God and the Father, is this: to visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world.

2 Timothy 2:14-16,23-26 Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit but to the subverting of the hearers. Study to show thyself approved unto God, a WORKMAN who needeth not to be ashamed, RIGHTLY DIVIDING THE WORD OF TRUTH. But shun profane and vain babblings, for they will increase unto more ungodliness, BUT FOOLISH AND UNLEARNED QUESTIONS AVOID, knowing that they engender strifes. AND THE SERVANT OF THE LORD MUST NOT ENGENDER STRIFE, but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those in opposition. Perhaps God will give them repentance, THAT THEY MAY ACKNOWLEDGE THE TRUTH, and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

James 4:17 Anyone, then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it, sins.
Soooooooo?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
I think the point which can be lost is the view of what is sin, what makes us worthy.

Alone, apart from God, We are unworthy,, As God looks into the mercy seat, he sees the law, and all the things which are contrary to us in our daily lives,, And for that and that alone, we would be condemned.

However when Jesus spilt his blood on the mercy seat, when God looks down on our daily lives, He sees the blood of his son, The things against us, contrary to us, and which would condemn us as we stand, are not seen.. The redemption has been applied.. We are seen as innocent.

As paul said in colossians, Christ took the things which were against us, Contrary to us, which condemned us, and nailed them to the cross..


As I think UTAH, or GB9 has been stressing, If we do not realise what real sin is, we will never understand and think we are worthy when we are not.
Amen to this....and regardless of who rejects it...by faith his righteousness is applied unto us dia the blood!
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113

Then we will never agree.

and in my view....

1. You do not believe in eternal security
2. You are trying to save yourself
3. You make God out to be a liar. (He says you HAVE eternal life, and WILL never die, You said he said you can still die, And your life is conditional; not eternal.

Good luck in trying to save yourself..

I will continue to trust in Christ.
I heard that...it is all his faith, work, sacrifice, mediation, applied blood, righteousness, justification, sanctification etc.........applied unto lost, sinful men dia faith....eternally I might add!
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Trusting in Christ is about being washed here and now, not in the future.
If you cannot take up this purity and walk in it you are not worthy of it.

Reality of life is here now
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Sin is blatant stuff. We need to walk in love and faith which is another step beyond.
It is like talking to people in a time warp, not clean and not progressing.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
people need to get off this walk worthy crap. You can not walk worthy, That requires perfection. Which you can not do. You need to stop being the pharisee, and start being the tax collector. and get on your knees.

We walk by faith, not by sight.. Knowing our father, who is not a spirit of fear. but of adoption. Loves us, and will guide us, even when we fall and skin our knee, or stub our toe..
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Paul could live a life worthy of his calling, and encouraged timothy to do likewise.

Those who contradict scripture just show their arrogance.
If anger is in there words, there blindness.
 
Feb 24, 2015
13,204
168
0
Did Jesus die for us not to know Him and live defeated?

He expected us to love, as our birth right. Maybe some have
birth right issues, and are not what they seem.

Do we love the people of God? Do we want to encourage or break down others?
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
people need to get off this walk worthy crap. You can not walk worthy, That requires perfection. Which you can not do. You need to stop being the pharisee, and start being the tax collector. and get on your knees.

We walk by faith, not by sight.. Knowing our father, who is not a spirit of fear. but of adoption. Loves us, and will guide us, even when we fall and skin our knee, or stub our toe..
I agree....Jesus was impressed by the following..

a. The woman who equated herself to a dog licking the crumbs from the master's table
b. The Roman soldier who said he was not worthy for Jesus to come under his roof
c. the man who would not look to heaven, but rather pled for mercy as a sinner

etc....those who boasted and pushed their righteousness....he abhorred and raked over the coals.....
 

Seohce

Senior Member
Jul 15, 2016
1,386
54
48
Revelation 2:7 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give the right to eat from the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.

Revelation 2:11 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. He who overcomes will not be hurt at all by the second death.

Revelation 2:17 He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will give some of the hidden manna. I will also give him a white stone with a new name written on it, known only to him who receives it.

Revelation 2:26 To him who overcomes and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations—

Revelation 3:5 He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.

Revelation 3:12 Him who overcomes I will make a pillar in the temple of my God. Never again will he leave it. I will write on him the name of my God and the name of the city of my God, the new Jerusalem, which is coming down out of heaven from my God; and I will also write on him my new name.

Revelation 3:21 To him who overcomes, I will give the right to sit with me on my throne, just as I overcame and sat down with my Father on his throne.

Revelation 21:7 He who overcomes will inherit all this, and I will be his God and he will be my son.

Romans 12:9-21 Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good. Be devoted to one another in brotherly love. Honor one another above yourselves. Never be lacking in zeal, but keep your spiritual fervor, serving the Lord. Be joyful in hope, patient in affliction, faithful in prayer. Share with God’s people who are in need. Practice hospitality. Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice; mourn with those who mourn. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be proud, but be willing to associate with people of low position. Do not be conceited. Do not repay anyone evil for evil. Be careful to do what is right in the eyes of everybody. If it is possible, as far as it depends on you, live at peace with everyone. Do not take revenge, my friends, but leave room for God’s wrath, for it is written: “It is mine to avenge; I will repay,” says the Lord. On the contrary: “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink. In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head.” DO NOT BE OVERCOME BY EVIL BUT OVERCOME EVIL WITH GOOD.”
 
Apr 15, 2017
2,867
653
113
Not everybody wants to represent good that claims Jesus as Lord,and Jesus those that overcome shall see a reward,but if Jesus did it all for us,and we are saved and cannot fall,what is there to overcome,and the person at that one Church that does not overcome Jesus said,they will be blotted out of the book of life,which that would apply to all the Churches that Jesus said if they do not overcome.

If Jesus did it all for us,and there is no responsibility on our part,what is there to overcome,and Jesus said if they did not they would be blotted out of the book of life.Does it go along with this scripture,work out your own salvation,with fear and trembling,which means Jesus saves us,but then the responsibility is on is to maintain that salvation,and do right,for God said if you do not continue in His goodness,you will be cut off,but were a lot of people that claim Jesus as Lord saved at all,for did they properly repent,and properly turn from sins,not wanting to do them.
 
S

Sully

Guest
The misconception is if you argue the case for grace you are automagically transformed into team free for all, sin till the lights go down. How is that the conclusion everyone hyperspaces to? Mind boggling.
 
Dec 12, 2013
46,515
20,401
113
The misconception is if you argue the case for grace you are automagically transformed into team free for all, sin till the lights go down. How is that the conclusion everyone hyperspaces to? Mind boggling.
AMEN...and the post above yours that pushes a working for....it is our FAITH that overcomes the world.....funny....everyone that pushes that you can lose salvation has never lost it.......they always keep EVERY jot and tittle of the LAW and do every thing right 24/7 and more wonderful works that all grace believers....funny how only GRACE/FAITH believers are the ones who lose it........such hypocrisy....

IF one can lose salvation...there will be NO ONE IN HEAVEN other than JESUS, The FATHER, 24 Elders, 144,000 of the tribes of Israel and the angels........

IT is impossible to re-crucify Christ...lose it once and it cannot be regained (if it could actually be lost)