Not By Works

[UnderGrace]

I guess this goes back to what does it mean to have the law fulfilled by Jesus?

Hi EG,

Here's how Paul said it in Colossians.

He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Remember that old song: He paid a debt He did not owe I owed I debt I could not pay, I needed someone to take my sins away ayeah..... Maybe I'm showing my age.

So we owed a debt for our transgressions which is death. The wages of sin is death. The penalty of the law is death as you said.

Jesus paid our debt in full and he nailed that certificate of debt to the cross. It's dead and can never accuse us again of our sins that Jesus has forgiven us for.

However you want to say that about the certificate of death is fine .....my point is that the law itself has not been nailed to the cross.

 

[JIMBO43]

Good to see you on board in the 'works save' camp.

But you and I know that continuing to hold fast the word is not equal to trying to earn salvation but rather the evidence that invariably goes along with being born again (and, thus, why works must accompany salvation).

1 John 3:9-10 NASB
9No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.

To everyone in this thread, obviously, John is not teaching a 'works save' gospel in the above passage. He's simply saying that born again people have works attached to their faith because they have the seed/word of God in them. It's interesting that if I, or someone else says what John says above, it gets branded as one believing a works gospel.

can i just ask whats wrong with a works Gospel ?

 

[JIMBO43]

the new testement is the chance saloon.... you either follow it or lump it.. you either work or you dont... its that simple..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

can i just ask whats wrong with a works Gospel ?

it leads people to hell?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi EG,

Here's how Paul said it in Colossians.

He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Remember that old song: He paid a debt He did not owe I owed I debt I could not pay, I needed someone to take my sins away ayeah..... Maybe I'm showing my age.

So we owed a debt for our transgressions which is death. The wages of sin is death. The penalty of the law is death as you said.

Jesus paid our debt in full and he nailed that certificate of debt to the cross. It's dead and can never accuse us again of our sins that Jesus has forgiven us for.

However you want to say that about the certificate of death is fine .....my point is that the law itself has not been nailed to the cross.

I was agreeing with you, By saying the penalty of the law. not the law, Was nailed

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was agreeing with you, By saying the penalty of the law. not the law, Was nailed

Saying this, Since the penalty is removed, and the law can not condemn you, We are not under law, but under grace, The law has fulfilled its part in our life, now it needs to work in other people who need to come to Christ.

 

[Magenta]

I guess this goes back to what does it mean to have the law fulfilled by Jesus?

He fulfilled the law by keeping it perfectly and then offering Himself up as a ransom for many, by paying the price for sin required under the law which is death. This was God's plan from before the foundation of the world. Only those who truly surrender their self will to God's will can accept what others see as the foolishness of the gospel. This too is accomplished by the working of the Holy Spirit of God in our lives, for the natural man cannot accept the things of God. Coming to believe is among the first of many steps...

 

[UnderGrace]

AMEN! The Law has been perfectly fulfilled by Jesus. He DID what we could not do!

He fulfilled the law by keeping it perfectly and then offering Himself up as a ransom for many, by paying the price for sin required under the law which is death. This was God's plan from before the foundation of the world. Only those who truly surrender their self will to God's will can accept what others see as the foolishness of the gospel. This too is accomplished by the working of the Holy Spirit of God in our lives, for the natural man cannot accept the things of God. Coming to believe is among the first of many steps...

 

[Magenta]

AMEN! The Law has been perfectly fulfilled by Jesus. He DID what we could not do!

Amen and amen and thank you Jesus. All to Him and His great love we owe...

“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

None of us could have accomplished that

Much love to you, sis...



I am being edified. Thank you DC, DesertsRose, UnderGrace, Meggido,
Katy, Bill, EG, Ariel, and Nehemiah. Sorry if I missed any I meant to include.
In a thread thousands of posts long it is a feat to keep track of you all

 

[Nehemiah6]

can i just ask whats wrong with a works Gospel ?

A "works Gospel" would be an oxymoron.
1. It would leave your sin debt unpaid no matter how hard you worked for your salvation.
2. It would demand that you be as perfect as the Lord Jesus Christ and that would never happen.
3. It would simply leave you just as lost as before and heading for Hell.

Human beings can do absolutely nothing for their salvation. That is why the death, burial, and resurrection of Christ became a Divine Necessity.
Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, Who by him do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. (1 Peter 1:18-21).

 

[dcontroversal]

Hi Dcon,

The law has not been nailed to the cross. All the laws you've broken have been written down as a testimony against you.......those have been nailed to the cross, not the law itself.

Jesus gave his life on the cross to redeem us from the curse of the law, not the law itself. The law can't save, it can only show us our sin.

So now that we've been born again, we are no longer under the law, but instead through the grace of God, He enables us to obey the righteous requirements of the law.

Romans 8:3,4
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 2:26, 27 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

The handwriting of ordinances that was against us has been nailed to cross......so.......good luck!

 

[Cee]

Hi Desert,

The Scripture you quoted says, "man lives by every word that proceeds out of His mouth..." not proceeded.

God is still speaking today. His Holy Spirit is our teacher.

Romans tells us, faith comes by HEARING... not by having heard... there is a continual relationship with God who is life that produces life in us.

God hasn't changed, but how He chooses to deal with men has changed.

I agree there are some beautiful gems in the OT. Predominately though the OT showed us why we need Christ, the NT shows us who we are in Christ.

Hi Grace,



Sorry this is not true. I'm not sure who's telling you this, but it's actually a lie. There are many verses that are repeated in the New from the Old.

Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil. And after He had fasted forty days and forty nights, He then became hungry. And the tempter came and said to Him, “If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread.” But He answered and said, “It is written, ‘Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God.’”Paul spoke to Timothy extolling the virtues of the Old Testament telling him to continue on in what he learned from the Old Testament.

2 Timothy 3:14-16
You, however, continue in the things you have learned and become convinced of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the sacred writings which are able to give you the wisdom that leads to salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.
~~~

All scripture is inspired. Guess which scripture Paul was speaking of? The Old Testament. They didn't have the New Testament yet.

Paul goes on to say that the Old Testament is profitable. For what?
~ Teaching
~ Reproof
~ Correction
~ Training in Rightousness

Christian common sense should tell us how precious God's word is.......all of it!

 

[dcontroversal]

can i just ask whats wrong with a works Gospel ?

Other than it is false and does not save anyone........nothing!

 

[Cee]

Hi again Desert,

Yes the ordinances of the law are written on the cross. The Law is still in effect for those who are not in Christ, but for those in Christ the law has been brought to an end.

I will show you:

2 Co 3:7 Now if the ministry of death, carved in letters on stone, came with such glory that the Israelites could not gaze at Moses’ face because of its glory, which was being brought to an end,

Notice the following:
- The Law written on stone (10 commandments)
- Is the ministry of death... (Produces death because of sin in us)
- Is brought to an end.

I know a lot of people believe that the law that is abolished is not the 10 commandments. And they point to Jesus says He didn't come to abolish it, but to fulfill it. And that's true. He fulfilled it because LOVE fulfills the entire law. But for those in CHRIST we are dead to the law of sin and death.

C.

Hi Dcon,

The law has not been nailed to the cross. All the laws you've broken have been written down as a testimony against you.......those have been nailed to the cross, not the law itself.

Jesus gave his life on the cross to redeem us from the curse of the law, not the law itself. The law can't save, it can only show us our sin.

So now that we've been born again, we are no longer under the law, but instead through the grace of God, He enables us to obey the righteous requirements of the law.

Romans 8:3,4
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 2:26, 27 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

 

[Magenta]

Cee Cee Cee I forgot to include you on my list please forgive me.

And Rosemary... please accept my apologies, also

 

[UnderGrace]

If God is still speaking to us today ...what is He telling us?

Hi Desert,

The Scripture you quoted says, "man lives by every word that proceeds out of His mouth..." not proceeded.

God is still speaking today. His Holy Spirit is our teacher.

Romans tells us, faith comes by HEARING... not by having heard... there is a continual relationship with God who is life that produces life in us.

God hasn't changed, but how He chooses to deal with men has changed.

I agree there are some beautiful gems in the OT. Predominately though the OT showed us why we need Christ, the NT shows us who we are in Christ.

 

[Rosemaryx]

Cee Cee Cee I forgot to include you on my list please forgive me.

And Rosemary... please accept my apologies, also

Thank you my BEA~UTI~FUL Magenta-Purple-Mauve-Lilac-Lavender sister in Christ......xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen and amen and thank you Jesus. All to Him and His great love we owe...

“Behold! The Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world!"

None of us could have accomplished that

Much love to you, sis...

View attachment 172285

I am being edified. Thank you DC, DesertsRose, UnderGrace, Meggido,
Katy, Bill, EG, Ariel, and Nehemiah. Sorry if I missed any I meant to include.
In a thread thousands of posts long it is a feat to keep track of you all

I have been lifted up by many f your posts also sis, thank you

 

[Meggido]

If God is still speaking to us today ...what is He telling us?

He told me this morning, during our morning talk, that one of the issues we have in the church is that many leaders are trying to be popular and relevant with their congregations...God said, my son was not popular and neither where his disciples...he said I should start looking into the word on this topic and then exhort our people that we should never be driven by the need to be popular or relevant...

Praying, abiding and communing with Father is talking and.............listening............and discussing

 

[dcontroversal]

If God is still speaking to us today ...what is He telling us?

I feel time is short and humanity is running our of the most precious commodity that we have under the sun.........