"Not by works" - false!

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes I agree...
Before the LORD called me , I was a drunk , at least 3 times a week...
I would spend the days I did not drink swearing I would never drink again , and on and on it went...

When the Lord called me , I was still in the habit of drinking , yet the word started cutting through me , sometimes through my bones and marrow , sometimes in gentleness , nevertheless Gods word it true , and the truth broke them chains...

I now practice being sober , the Holy Spirit is doing a Mighty work in me , I no longer practice what is behind me...

I will always have to be careful around alcohol , yet I do know should I ever fall into temptation , my God is there to pick me up and set me on my feet again...

I do not willfully seek no more to drink , but I am always aware the evil one is crouching , but my Lord is covering me Amen...
...xox...

You can also have the assurance if you do crash, which many Have, God is not going to kick you out of his family. He is going to continue to work to help you. He will never leave nor forsake you.. It is this HOPE and FAITH that continues to help people come out from these addictions, even after they fall again.

If there was no hope. Why bother to continue trying? You might as well let those drugs have their way with you..

(awaits the legalistic stone throwing because I said you would still be saved)

 

[DBurrage]

Then were they ever a christian?

what Does John say?

1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Has that person, who has never seen or known God ever been saved?

I'm understanding where you're coming from, and I'd like to put it to the test...

Homosexuality is a sin - right or wrong?

Are you saying that homosexuals who claim to follow Jesus, do not REALLY follow Jesus?

 

[Chester]

Then were they ever a christian?

what Does John say?

1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Has that person, who has never seen or known God ever been saved?

I John 3:6: Whoever abides in him does not keep on sinning (present tense - Greek), everyone continuing sinning (present tense - Greek) has not seen Him with ongoing results (perfect tense - Greek) nor known him with ongoing results (perfect tense - Greek).

Has the person who has not seen or known God with ongoing results ever been saved? I am not sure. I will not make that judgment call. What I am sure of is that they are not saved if right now they are ongoing willfully sinning!

 

[DBurrage]

I John 3:6: Whoever abides in him does not keep on sinning (present tense - Greek), everyone continuing sinning (present tense - Greek) has not seen Him with ongoing results (perfect tense - Greek) nor known him with ongoing results (perfect tense - Greek).

Has the person who has not seen or known God with ongoing results ever been saved? I am not sure. I will not make that judgment call. What I am sure of is that they are not saved if right now they are ongoing willfully sinning!

Agree wholeheartedly

 

[Rosemaryx]

You can also have the assurance if you do crash, which many Have, God is not going to kick you out of his family. He is going to continue to work to help you. He will never leave nor forsake you.. It is this HOPE and FAITH that continues to help people come out from these addictions, even after they fall again.

If there was no hope. Why bother to continue trying? You might as well let those drugs have their way with you..

(awaits the legalistic stone throwing because I said you would still be saved)

I was going to say the same thing , and I will...
I am SAVED forever and ever , Eternally secure...

I have just had fellowship in the Lord while reading the book of Hebrews , WOW , what a great book...
Learning about how Jesus is our High priest , and our intercessor , and so much more...

There was a passage that brought me to tears , knowing how secure we are in Him , not that I do not know this already , but it was like really having it write on my heart , it was so beautiful...
...xox...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I was going to say the same thing , and I will...
I am SAVED forever and ever , Eternally secure...

I have just had fellowship in the Lord while reading the book of Hebrews , WOW , what a great book...
Learning about how Jesus is our High priest , and our intercessor , and so much more...

There was a passage that brought me to tears , knowing how secure we are in Him , not that I do not know this already , but it was like really having it write on my heart , it was so beautiful...
...xox...

As John the beloved said

"I write these things to you so you may KNOW you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and CONTINUE to BELIEVE IN HIS NAME

It is our security in christ which is the bases of our hope. and as Hebrews says, Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. Without hope there is no faith.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I'm understanding where you're coming from, and I'd like to put it to the test...

Homosexuality is a sin - right or wrong?

Are you saying that homosexuals who claim to follow Jesus, do not REALLY follow Jesus?

Thats one sin

Why do you focus on one sin?

That what the problem is, You want to judge these people. while refusing to see your own sin.

James said if we keep the WHOLE LAW. yet STUMBLE in one point (an accidental sin?) we are GUILTY OF THE WHOLE LAW.

If you think you are more worthy of salvation than that ficticious homosexual person. You are already in danger and in denial

 

[DBurrage]

Thats one sin

Why do you focus on one sin?

That what the problem is, You want to judge these people. while refusing to see your own sin.

James said if we keep the WHOLE LAW. yet STUMBLE in one point (an accidental sin?) we are GUILTY OF THE WHOLE LAW.

If you think you are more worthy of salvation than that ficticious homosexual person. You are already in danger and in denial

I've used the sin of homosexuality to test what you were saying to me.
I could have used any sin.

Could you please answer the question:

"I'm understanding where you're coming from, and I'd like to put it to the test...

Homosexuality is a sin - right or wrong?

Are you saying that homosexuals who claim to follow Jesus, do not REALLY follow Jesus?"

 

[Rosemaryx]

As John the beloved said

"I write these things to you so you may KNOW you HAVE ETERNAL LIFE and CONTINUE to BELIEVE IN HIS NAME

It is our security in christ which is the bases of our hope. and as Hebrews says, Faith is the substance of things hoped for.. Without hope there is no faith.

Amen...
And this one really was placed on my heart

Hebrews 9:15
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
...xox...

 

[Chester]

I'm understanding where you're coming from, and I'd like to put it to the test...

Homosexuality is a sin - right or wrong?

Are you saying that homosexuals who claim to follow Jesus, do not REALLY follow Jesus?

I know you were asking EG, and I am not trying to answer for him, but I will give my answer . . .

Homosexuality is a sin clearly condemned by the Bible and it is wrong! But I will not judge the homosexual and say he is going to hell because of his wrong acts and deeds. But I will preach to him about what the Bible says about the sin!

So then is it possible for a homosexual to have faith in God and still be committing that sin? I will let that judgment to God!

But the Bible is also clear that to willfully, ongoingly continue in the sin (I John 3:9) of homosexuality is impossible for the believer! But then so what is "willful, ongoing" sin? Good question!! What we know is that for the believer the blood of Christ covers (forgives) every sin that we commit. And God is merciful and longsuffering - PTL!

But is it possible that I myself could end up ongoingly willfully committing the sin of homosexuality? Yes, it is - I am a human fully and morally capable of falling just like anyone else - but God forbid! His mercy, His grace, and His power enable and give the faith to live for Him powerfully in the world today! PTL!

Note: You can take out the sin of homosexuality and put in any sin in the analogy above: For example substitute Lying/liar or Gluttony/Glutton.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I John 3:6: Whoever abides in him does not keep on sinning (present tense - Greek), everyone continuing sinning (present tense - Greek) has not seen Him with ongoing results (perfect tense - Greek) nor known him with ongoing results (perfect tense - Greek).

Has the person who has not seen or known God with ongoing results ever been saved? I am not sure. I will not make that judgment call. What I am sure of is that they are not saved if right now they are ongoing willfully sinning!

think about it

A person is so called not sining because they are abiding in Christ. Which means at that point they have SEEN (perfect tense) and KNOW (perfect tense) God

And now your saying they are sinning, and all of a sudden have NEVER SEEN OR KNOWN GOD?

sorry, Your last phrase there is in error. The words seen and known perfect tense preceded by the word OUDE in the negative does not mean what you say it does.

This is proven by what he says later. when he says whoever has been born of God (perfect tense) does not sin(present tense), for his seed remains in him and he can not (present tense)

You must take the whole passage in context.

A person born of God (a completed action) can not live in sin, if they have they have never seen (perfect tense) or known (perfect tense) God. why? Because again, A person born of God (perfect tense) can not live in sin.

 

[DBurrage]

I know you were asking EG, and I am not trying to answer for him, but I will give my answer . . .

Homosexuality is a sin clearly condemned by the Bible and it is wrong! But I will not judge the homosexual and say he is going to hell because of his wrong acts and deeds. But I will preach to him about what the Bible says about the sin!

So then is it possible for a homosexual to have faith in God and still be committing that sin? I will let that judgment to God!

But the Bible is also clear that to willfully, ongoingly continue in the sin (I John 3:9) of homosexuality is impossible for the believer! But then so what is "willful, ongoing" sin? Good question!! What we know is that for the believer the blood of Christ covers (forgives) every sin that we commit. And God is merciful and longsuffering - PTL!

But is it possible that I myself could end up ongoingly willfully committing the sin of homosexuality? Yes, it is - I am a human fully and morally capable of falling just like anyone else - but God forbid! His mercy, His grace, and His power enable and give the faith to live for Him powerfully in the world today! PTL!

Note: You can take out the sin of homosexuality and put in any sin in the analogy above: For example substitute Lying/liar or Gluttony/Glutton.

Thank you so much for giving me a clear answer.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I've used the sin of homosexuality to test what you were saying to me.
I could have used any sin.

Could you please answer the question:

"I'm understanding where you're coming from, and I'd like to put it to the test...

Homosexuality is a sin - right or wrong?

Are you saying that homosexuals who claim to follow Jesus, do not REALLY follow Jesus?"

Like it has been explained before...
Those who PRACTICE sin are children of the devil...

I was a drinker , I am no longer a drinker getting drunk , if I carried on practicing being a drunkard , would I call myself a child of God ?

When the Holy Spirit of God enters a person , when we are born again , the old passes away , the new begins...
Do you understand what the new birth means?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I've used the sin of homosexuality to test what you were saying to me.
I could have used any sin.

Could you please answer the question:

"I'm understanding where you're coming from, and I'd like to put it to the test...

Homosexuality is a sin - right or wrong?

Are you saying that homosexuals who claim to follow Jesus, do not REALLY follow Jesus?"

Thats where your question fails

If I condemn the homosexual. I would have to condemn every sinner. Which means I would have to condemn you and myself, because again, as James said, if we keep the whole law, and stumble in one point. we are guilty

You are just as guilty as that homosexual as I am.. if he is judged than so am I!

You want to put it to the test

ask me if a person who is living in open willful lifestyle of sin (like an unbeliever) and not a person who is addicted to one sin, like say alcoholism, or sexual sin, and I will answer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen...
And this one really was placed on my heart

Hebrews 9:15
And for this reason He is the Mediator of the new covenant, by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions under the first covenant, that those who are called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.
...xox...

Amen, As God told abraham, In his (his seed) Shall all nations be blessed. We are blessed by that seed!

 

[EleventhHour]

The context we are talking about here is I John 3

Oops .. Thanks
The OP uses that verse incorrectly.. that is a huge problem.

 

[EleventhHour]

Can't be! A person who is willfully ongoingly sinning is not a Christian - I John 3.

John is speaking to the dual nature of the Christian... the sanctified and the flesh... that is the only way to understand the Book of John

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Like it has been explained before...
Those who PRACTICE sin are children of the devil...

I was a drinker , I am no longer a drinker getting drunk , if I carried on practicing being a drunkard , would I call myself a child of God ?

When the Holy Spirit of God enters a person , when we are born again , the old passes away , the new begins...
Do you understand what the new birth means?

The problem with his question is what I mentioned earlier

Lets say one day something happens. and you have a drink. And because of your addiction. You fall right back into drinking

Are you unsaved?

He asked me, can a homosexual be saved, I do not know the situation.. so how could I judge them?

its not a valid question in the first place.

 

[Chester]

think about it

A person is so called not sining because they are abiding in Christ. Which means at that point they have SEEN (perfect tense) and KNOW (perfect tense) God

And now your saying they are sinning, and all of a sudden have NEVER SEEN OR KNOWN GOD?

sorry, Your last phrase there is in error. The words seen and known perfect tense preceded by the word OUDE in the negative does not mean what you say it does.

This is proven by what he says later. when he says whoever has been born of God (perfect tense) does not sin(present tense), for his seed remains in him and he can not (present tense)

You must take the whole passage in context.

A person born of God (a completed action) can not live in sin, if they have they have never seen (perfect tense) or known (perfect tense) God. why? Because again, A person born of God (perfect tense) can not live in sin.

A person born out of God with ongoing results (perfect tense) cannot keep on willfully, ongoingly sinning, for the seed (sperma - Greek) of God keeps on remaining in him and he cannot keep on sinning . . .

Yes and amen! PTL! A born again believer does not and cannot live this way . . .
But many a sinner and unbeliever does live this say . . .

 

[DBurrage]

The problem with his question is what I mentioned earlier

Lets say one day something happens. and you have a drink. And because of your addiction. You fall right back into drinking

Are you unsaved?

He asked me, can a homosexual be saved, I do not know the situation.. so how could I judge them?

its not a valid question in the first place.

You have accused me previously of double-speak and of not answering questions.
And yet, when I present a scenario to you to test what you're saying, you do not answer.

Thankfully @Chester answered fully in your place.