"Not by works" - false!

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See post # 235 where the OP clearly refutes that he believes commandment keeping brings salvation:

"What causes an uproar is when people seem to imply that salvation is based on our best efforts to stop sinning and commandment keeping. Then the line gets crossed into salvation by works."

"Yes but that it not what is being said in this thread." - the OP's response
 
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Chester said:
See post # 235 where the OP clearly refutes that he believes commandment keeping brings salvation:

"What causes an uproar is when people seem to imply that salvation is based on our best efforts to stop sinning and commandment keeping. Then the line gets crossed into salvation by works."

"Yes but that it not what is being said in this thread." - the OP's response
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DBurrage says that's not what is being said in this thread, yet he continues to imply otherwise with his repeated line of reasoning while avoiding giving direct answers to direct questions. I wish I had $1 for every time I heard someone say they don't believe this or that on a Christian forum, then turn around and contradict themselves, not even realizing they do actually believe this or that. If this isn't the case for DBurrage, then he needs to be more specific with his answers. Otherwise, his responses will continue to sound like double speak.
 
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EleventhHour said:
I repeat this is a disgusting comment ... probably one of the worst I have ever read and two people even found it funny.

@Whispered and @Kolistus

@preacher4truth this is the person you gave a ribbon to

A person who turns the Grace of God into a reason for depravity ... perverted logic that slanders Grace in order to exalt their worthiness

And why not say, “Let us do evil that good may come”?—as we are slanderously reported and as some affirm that we say.
Their condemnation is just.
Romans 3:8

Study this verse carefully @jaybird88 ... Paul states people who slander with their perverted logic do so from a heart of unbelief and their condemnation is just.
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You can call it every ugly name you want. It will never change the fact that both have the same end result, the law is abolished. That's what Crowley taught and that's what grace only teaches. You either follow the law or you you do not. You can't have it both ways. You guys ignoring this issue only makes this doctrine look less credible
 
jaybird88 said:
You can call it every ugly name you want. It will never change the fact that both have the same end result, the law is abolished. That's what Crowley taught and that's what grace only teaches. You either follow the law or you you do not. You can't have it both ways. You guys ignoring this issue only makes this doctrine look less credible
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if the law is not abolished

No one will make it to heaven

This is what the law teaches.. The ONLY one one can redeemed according to the law is through animal sacrifice. Animals have not been sacrificed in the temple since ad70.. So s paul said, If you are under law. you are under a curse..

Good luck tryign to relate to God and think he will restor you according to the law.
 
mailmandan said:
DBurrage says that's not what is being said in this thread, yet he continues to imply otherwise with his repeated line of reasoning while avoiding giving direct answers to direct questions. I wish I had $1 for every time I heard someone say they don't believe this or that on a Christian forum, then turn around and contradict themselves, not even realizing they do actually believe this or that. If this isn't the case for DBurrage, then he needs to be more specific with his answers. Otherwise, his responses will continue to sound like double speak.
Click to expand...

Hey, that would be a good way to get rich quick! $1 each time would add up quick.

I agree with you that DBurrage's language is very confusing and seems contradictory. On post #642 I simply pointed out what he did say directly - and I just take that at face value.

Sometimes language and ways of saying things with people of different nationalities and religious and cultural backgrounds just doesn't always bring complete clarity . . . seems to be the case here . . .
 
eternally-gratefull said:
I misspoke

1 John 3 does not suggest it, it DECLARES itl it is a statement of fact not a suggestion
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Ok, so a Christian, due to the spirit within them, will not habitually willfully sin against God.
I accept the truth of that.

But what if somebody who SAYS that they follow Christ does wilfully continue sinning?
 
jaybird88 said:
You can call it every ugly name you want. It will never change the fact that both have the same end result, the law is abolished. That's what Crowley taught and that's what grace only teaches. You either follow the law or you you do not. You can't have it both ways. You guys ignoring this issue only makes this doctrine look less credible
Click to expand...

We are saved by GRACE through faith.

Works never saved a single soul EVER....... so again you deny the Gospel.
 
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Chester said:
You are exactly right! I agree completely! I John 3 declares that a Christian cannot live in willful, habitual sin!
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So my brother-in-law who at one time claimed to be a Christian, but now lives openly in ongoing willful sin, is not a Christian. On that we agree.

But then I refuse to make a judgment on his former state: I let God judge whether or not he was ever a true believer or not. Not that it really matters today: an unbeliever goes to hell!
 
DBurrage said:
Ok, so a Christian, due to the spirit within them, will not habitually willfully sin against God.
I accept the truth of that.

But what if somebody who SAYS that they follow Christ does wilfully continue sinning?
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Then were they ever a christian?

what Does John say?

1 John 3: 6 Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him.

Has that person, who has never seen or known God ever been saved?
 
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DBurrage said:
Ok, so a Christian, due to the spirit within them, will not habitually willfully sin against God.
I accept the truth of that.

But what if somebody who SAYS that they follow Christ does wilfully continue sinning?
Click to expand...


"Willful sin" in context is referring to the Old Testament sins not covered but animal sacrifices.

So misunderstood.
 
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Chester said:
So my brother-in-law who at one time claimed to be a Christian, but now lives openly in ongoing willful sin, is not a Christian. On that we agree.

But then I refuse to make a judgment on his former state: I let God judge whether or not he was ever a true believer or not. Not that it really matters today: an unbeliever goes to hell!
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I just go with John, John says that those who live in open willfull habitual sin has never seen or known God.

I would just take John at his word.. And IF you brother IS doing that. Then we can probably assume what John said is true
 
DBurrage said:
Ok, so a Christian, due to the spirit within them, will not habitually willfully sin against God.
I accept the truth of that.

But what if somebody who SAYS that they follow Christ does wilfully continue sinning?
Click to expand...
1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
 
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mailmandan said:
1 John 3:7 - Little children, make sure no one deceives you; the one who practices righteousness is righteous, just as He is righteous; 8 the one who practices sin is of the devil; for the devil has sinned from the beginning. The Son of God appeared for this purpose, to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God. 10 By this the children of God and the children of the devil are obvious: anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor the one who does not love his brother.
Click to expand...

Amen...
The word practice means a lot , we are not there yet , but we practice living out what God has put in us...
...xox...
 
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Rosemaryx said:
Amen...
The word practice means a lot , we are not there yet , but we practice living out what God has put in us...
...xox...
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One thing is for sure, We do not practice sin.

It is actually poison to us. For those who have been born of God they know what I am talking about. Its different than before we were born again, Where it did not really affect us. After. the emotional, the physical. the pain and suffering which digs at us is different.. The Lord chastens those who are his.. Thats why we can not contonue in those things by practicing them
 
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eternally-gratefull said:
One thing is for sure, We do not practice sin.

It is actually poison to us. For those who have been born of God they know what I am talking about. Its different than before we were born again, Where it did not really affect us. After. the emotional, the physical. the pain and suffering which digs at us is different.. The Lord chastens those who are his.. Thats why we can not contonue in those things by practicing them
Click to expand...

Yes I agree...
Before the LORD called me , I was a drunk , at least 3 times a week...
I would spend the days I did not drink swearing I would never drink again , and on and on it went...

When the Lord called me , I was still in the habit of drinking , yet the word started cutting through me , sometimes through my bones and marrow , sometimes in gentleness , nevertheless Gods word it true , and the truth broke them chains...

I now practice being sober , the Holy Spirit is doing a Mighty work in me , I no longer practice what is behind me...

I will always have to be careful around alcohol , yet I do know should I ever fall into temptation , my God is there to pick me up and set me on my feet again...

I do not willfully seek no more to drink , but I am always aware the evil one is crouching , but my Lord is covering me Amen...
...xox...
 
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