Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

[david-a-servant]

Repentance doesn't earn salvation, repentance is the means by which we accept salvation - through exercise of free will choice, plain and simple.

When Christians realize that choice is not "work" but is merely "thought", then they will cease from this confusion of a false dichotomy between faith and works. Thus, works have nothing to do with obtaining salvation, they are the evidence that salvation has been obtain - through repentance- and that is why the absence of works is evidence to the contrary.

1 John 2:3-4 KJV says it all. The problem is our love of sin refuses to allow us to accept what is written here, but if we look to the Cross and see what sin has done to Jesus, God will grant us a hatred of it...which is all He ever wanted for us to have.

Jesus said "this is the work of God, that you believe on Him who He has sent". So we understand that the work of God is through faith in Jesus Christ and faith through the Spirit. So work is no more work. Our work now is ministered by the Spirit and not of the flesh.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Can you give me the scripture that says the Holy Spirit convicts the unregenerate natural man?

Jesus establishes the principle that there are only two spiritual conditions of man - regenerated and unregenerated - by His words, "He that is not with Me is against Me."

It is not necessary for God to convict regenerated hearts to follow Him - they are already doing that. Therefore, the only hearts in need of such conviction are unregenerated hearts.

 

[Phoneman-777]

" hold on to sin " this implies you believe that its required to stop sinning in order to be saved . This is classic works salvation. A false Gospel and disobedience against God .

Jesus said that even perfect obedience to Him by His servants is "unprofitable" and I agree with Jesus.

Therefore, the problem isn't me teaching salvation by works -- the problem is you trying to obtain eternal life through dead faith when James is clear it's obtained only by living faith.

 

[oldethennew]

Yes, and I certainly remember mine, (un-regenerate heart) and I also remember very clearly
that if my Saviour had not been 'working-calling/protecting me through oh so many years,
'before' my conversion, then I would most definitely be in the grave bodily,
kind of like where my 'old-man' now resides...

 

[throughfaith]

Jesus said that even perfect obedience to Him by His servants is "unprofitable" and I agree with Jesus.

Therefore, the problem isn't me teaching salvation by works -- the problem is you trying to obtain eternal life through dead faith when James is clear it's obtained only by living faith.

James is written to the 12 tribes . Which tribe are you from then ?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Does this mean that you think that you do not sin?

And here lies the crux of the issue: the difference between sins we fall into and climb back up out by the outstretched hand of God...and ones we sit down and get comfortable with with no intention of taking God's hand.

There is mercy for those guilty of the first kind, but eternal death for those who are guilty of the second kind.

 

[oldethennew]

James is written to the 12 tribes . Which tribe are you from then ?

=======================================
TF,
what are you saying?
it sounds like you are saying that you have 'nixed' the Book of James out of the Bible
and have no reason to apply it's Truths and Principles to yourself?
curious...

 

[Phoneman-777]

If this is your whole kettle of fish, it does not explain anything according to the scriptures.

A Scriptural argument from Matthew 16:23 KJV via Socratic Method:

QUESTION:
What kind of heart was in the bosom of Satan when God communicated His will and expectation to him by, "get behind Me"?

ANSWER:
An unregenerate, depraved heart.

Unregenerate, depraved hearts are the only ones in need of Holy Spirit conviction of God's will and expectation - regenerate hearts are already safely in the bosom of Jesus.

 

[throughfaith]

=======================================
TF,
what are you saying?
it sounds like you are saying that you have 'nixed' the Book of James out of the Bible
and have no reason to apply it's Truths and Principles to yourself?
curious...

I take the book of Leviticus and read it for all of its wonderful truths but i take it in context. All the books should be read this way . Most just read the bible as if every verse is speaking to them directly and completely miss what the understanding is .

 

[Phoneman-777]

The "faith" in Eph 2:8 is not your faith, but is Jesus's faith Gal 2:16. The only spiritual faith that the regenerated child of God has is the imputed faith of Christ which is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. Gal 5:22.

All men are dealt a measure of faith...that includes ALL, not just a select bunch which God intends to save anyway against their will. What's the point of exercising faith in God or not if everyone's destiny is already predetermined?

 

[Phoneman-777]

If you want to give glory to God; Give him honor and praise for saving you by his sovereign grace, without your help. With your theory, mankind gets credit for accepting God, instead of God accepting him.

Dan 4:33 says that God has all power over the inhabitants of the earth to accomplish his will, and that none can stay his hand. Your theory is that God wants to save all mankind to live with him in heaven, but he cannot have his will because mankind will not accept him. and he will not usurp his authority over man's will. This portrays a weak, and powerless God that you serve.

The beautiful thing about free will choice is knowing the love given to you by another is given solely on their choice to do so.

Forced surrender of affection is not love, it's rape.

God is not a cosmic rapist. He is a Divine Gentleman Who gives us the choice to either love Him freely or spurn His affections.

 

[throughfaith]

The beautiful thing about free will choice is knowing the love given to you by another is given solely on their choice to do so.

Forced surrender of affection is not love, it's rape.

God is not a cosmic rapist. He is a Divine Gentleman Who gives us the choice to either love Him freely or spurn His affections.

Yes and like a good Father ,once you become a child of God is not going to then cast you into hell when you mess up . Its not 'probation ' .

 

[Phoneman-777]

You may not call it works salvation, but that is what it is.

Your confusion is in your misinterpretation of the salvation scriptures in accrediting them all as an eternal deliverance, which will teach you salvation by works.

Save, Saved, Salvation according to
greek interpretation means deliver, delivered, and deliverance.

There is an eternal deliverance, and there are many deliverances that the regenerated child of God receives as he sojourns here on earth.

Jesus said works are "unprofitable". I agree with Him.

 

[throughfaith]

Jesus said works are "unprofitable". I agree with Him.

Jesus establishes the principle that there are only two spiritual conditions of man - regenerated and unregenerated - by His words, "He that is not with Me is against Me."

It is not necessary for God to convict regenerated hearts to follow Him - they are already doing that. Therefore, the only hearts in need of such conviction are unregenerated hearts.

No one was regenerated until after the resurrection.

 

[Magenta]

Yes, and I certainly remember mine, (un-regenerate heart) and I also remember very clearly
that if my Saviour had not been 'working-calling/protecting me through oh so many years,
'before' my conversion, then I would most definitely be in the grave bodily,
kind of like where my 'old-man' now resides...

My experience also

 

[throughfaith]

Jesus establishes the principle that there are only two spiritual conditions of man - regenerated and unregenerated - by His words, "He that is not with Me is against Me."

It is not necessary for God to convict regenerated hearts to follow Him - they are already doing that. Therefore, the only hearts in need of such conviction are unregenerated hearts.

7Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

8And WHEN he is come, he WILL reprove the WORLD of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:

9Of sin, BECAUSE they BELIEVE NOT on me;

10Of righteousness, BECAUSE I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;

11Of judgment, BECAUSE the prince of this world is judged.

12¶I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now.

13Howbeit WHEN he, the Spirit of truth, is come,

 

[throughfaith]

Yes, and I certainly remember mine, (un-regenerate heart) and I also remember very clearly
that if my Saviour had not been 'working-calling/protecting me through oh so many years,
'before' my conversion, then I would most definitely be in the grave bodily,
kind of like where my 'old-man' now resides...

Yes, and I certainly remember mine, (un-regenerate heart) and I also remember very clearly
that if my Saviour had not been 'working-calling/protecting me through oh so many years,
'before' my conversion, then I would most definitely be in the grave bodily,
kind of like where my 'old-man' now resides...

Yet the bible says you were an enemy of God, lost , without hope and a stranger.

 

[Magenta]

Yet the bible says you were an enemy of God, lost , without hope and a stranger.

Luke 1:37

 

[throughfaith]

Luke 1:37

He made it possible at his death , burial and resurrection. Now everyone can come through faith.

 

[Magenta]

He made it possible at his death , burial and resurrection. Now everyone can come through faith.

God has done more than that for me to make it possible for me to choose rightly.

And they are promises made in Scripture...

So I know beyond any shadow of doubt: His Word is True.