Must we repent in order to be forgiven?

[oyster67]

Christ's death on the cross was not for an opportunity to accept his death.

Sure was, and still is.

Jesus's sacrifice was an offering to God for God's acceptance, and not to man for man's acceptance.

Jesus IS God. Man MUST accept the blood IF he wants to get to Heaven someday.

 

[throughfaith]

Yes, He knows how to deliver us...but we can certainly refuse to go...or as in the case of Lot's wife, become lost right in the middle of the deliverance, right?
Precisely...except what if the heart REFUSES to repent? What happens is the heart hardens and hardens so that it no longer feels those pricks and thus becomes incapable of repentance: the Unpardonable Sin, which is ANY sin from which we do not seek pardon because through stubborn resistance to God's pricks, we are no longer able to seek pardon.
That's contradictory to me...how can you say a saint in never in danger of forfeiting (a better description) salvation but then admit that when Peter was talking to saints when he warned that "the latter end of them is worse than the beginning" -- meaning in a lost sinful condition before they became saints -- if they again become entangled in the pollution of the world?

You could lose salvation in the old testament. You can lose your salvation during the tribulation. You cannot lose salvation during the church age . Miss this clear understanding in the scriptures. Fail to rightly divide ,and you will use the wrong verses and apply them at the wrong time line. What happens is some quote verses that do not apply to the Church age and say " see you can lose salvation " , when they quote an OT verse or a verse for the tribulation period .

 

[throughfaith]

Sounds like the "total depravity" of Calvinism's "TULIP".

I disagree. God gave me the free will to accept or reject His offer to regenerate my heart. It's my duty to believe and accept, and He takes care of the rest.

Can I remind you that the most depraved being in the universe -- Satan -- is perfectly capable of being reasoned with? Did not he and God hold a debate regarding Job and did not Satan strike a deal with God as to how he would afflict the man? Yet, we who are far less depraved are incapable of being impressed by the Holy Spirit of our need to repent while in an unregenerate state? Not buying it

He gives people the choice to accept or reject. BUT once you are sealed and ' in Christ ' you cannot undo this , nor should any sane person want to . " This isn't right , i did once choose to believe, but I've changed my mind now and I want to go to hell , this is a violation of my free will " ,said no one ever . It amazes me when people use the free will argument AFTER regeneration. Can we leap out of heaven ,once we're there ?

 

[Phoneman-777]

Repentence is also how you show God through your choices and actions that you are sincere about turning away from a sin.

Note this is not the same thing as struggling with a sin like an addiction.

For example, I repent of murder, but... continue murdering. On purpose. That's not repentance. That's just a cover and excuse.

But let's say I have an addiction to it. Well. If you can't stop it, and it's something with such serious consequences, turn yourself in and beg for mental help at least.

Scenario 2, one is at least trying to turn from the sin.

Mind you, I only use that particular sin as a blatant example.
Littler sins can include things like alcoholism and the things one might do when drunk.

But one should still be seeking out help for a sin if one has trouble with it. But it's the difference between a sincere effort and using forgiveness as a license to sin.

To the adultress, Jesus forgave her, but He did give her a command: "Go and sin no more."
He forgave her, but He also told her to stop doing it.
True repentance is not just feeling bad but making the effort to stop doing it and to CHANGE.
Repentance is an action and choice, not a feeling.

Excellent analysis. People seem to not be able to differentiate between a just man falling into sin and crying out to God for His outstretched hand to lift them out of the pit...and climbing down into the filth, sitting down comfortably in it, and spurning the hand of God each time He reaches down to lift us out.

There's mercy for the man who wets his pillow with tears at night as he cries out to God for power to overcome a habit, while there is ZERO help for the one who tells God, "this far and no further, Lord."

 

[throughfaith]

Repentence is also how you show God through your choices and actions that you are sincere about turning away from a sin.

Note this is not the same thing as struggling with a sin like an addiction.

For example, I repent of murder, but... continue murdering. On purpose. That's not repentance. That's just a cover and excuse.

But let's say I have an addiction to it. Well. If you can't stop it, and it's something with such serious consequences, turn yourself in and beg for mental help at least.

Scenario 2, one is at least trying to turn from the sin.

Mind you, I only use that particular sin as a blatant example.
Littler sins can include things like alcoholism and the things one might do when drunk.

But one should still be seeking out help for a sin if one has trouble with it. But it's the difference between a sincere effort and using forgiveness as a license to sin.

To the adultress, Jesus forgave her, but He did give her a command: "Go and sin no more."
He forgave her, but He also told her to stop doing it.
True repentance is not just feeling bad but making the effort to stop doing it and to CHANGE.
Repentance is an action and choice, not a feeling.

Jesus tells her to sin no more . Should he have said " carry on sinning " ...Then Jesus went to the cross to pay for her sins . including everyone else's sins .

 

[Phoneman-777]

You could lose salvation in the old testament. You can lose your salvation during the tribulation. You cannot lose salvation during the church age . Miss this clear understanding in the scriptures. Fail to rightly divide ,and you will use the wrong verses and apply them at the wrong time line. What happens is some quote verses that do not apply to the Church age and say " see you can lose salvation " , when they quote an OT verse or a verse for the tribulation period .

My, how fair and equitable of God...just like denying everyone throughout Earth's history any solid evidence of His existence...BUT...granting a select few who live during the "seven last years of tribulation" undeniable proof of His existence and voracity of the Bible by the greatest display of supernatural power to ever hit the planet: a secret rapture.

Trust me, there's no such thing as a "church age".

 

[Phoneman-777]

He gives people the choice to accept or reject. BUT once you are sealed and ' in Christ ' you cannot undo this , nor should any sane person want to . " This isn't right , i did once choose to believe, but I've changed my mind now and I want to go to hell , this is a violation of my free will " ,said no one ever . It amazes me when people use the free will argument AFTER regeneration. Can we leap out of heaven ,once we're there ?

Plenty of people started out good but went bad like King Saul, Elisha's servant, Ananias and Sapphira. Paul says it's impossible to renew unto repentance any saints that fall away. Peter says something similar. The Unmerciful Servant was forgiven and debt free, but had his original punishment and debt reinstated because he told his master this far and no further...he wouldn't allow the grace shown him to expel the greed in his heart. We can jump outta God's hand anytime we want, and like the dogs and pigs, plenty return to the filth of this world.

 

[throughfaith]

My, how fair and equitable of God...just like denying everyone throughout Earth's history any solid evidence of His existence...BUT...granting a select few who live during the "seven last years of tribulation" undeniable proof of His existence and voracity of the Bible by the greatest display of supernatural power to ever hit the planet: a secret rapture.

Trust me, there's no such thing as a "church age".[/QUOTE You think there's always been Jews and Gentiles as a ' body of believers?

 

[throughfaith]

Plenty of people started out good but went bad like King Saul, Elisha's servant, Ananias and Sapphira. Paul says it's impossible to renew unto repentance any saints that fall away. Peter says something similar. The Unmerciful Servant was forgiven and debt free, but had his original punishment and debt reinstated because he told his master this far and no further...he wouldn't allow the grace shown him to expel the greed in his heart. We can jump outta God's hand anytime we want, and like the dogs and pigs, plenty return to the filth of this world.

" Started out good " ...Were not dealing with Santa here . let's look again at this verse . SEALED.....UNTO ...THE ........DAY OF REDEMPTION!!! .

AND AGAIN .
Eph 1
5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

A believer is Guaranteed to be adopted which happens ...Rom 8.23 .

AGAIN .

Eph 1 .
13¶In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed !!!!!!!!! with that holy Spirit of promise,

14Which is the earnest ( GURANTEE ) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


AGAIN

Rom 8 .
38For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,

39Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

AGAIN .
Eph 2
5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye ARE saved

6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

SEATED IN HEAVENLY PLACES IN CHRIST JESUS . A believer is already spiritually resurrected.

We never earned our salvation by our efforts/ good deeds . We did nothing to earn it . We can't do anything to maintain or keep it . Thats not how salvation works .

 

[throughfaith]

Plenty of people started out good but went bad like King Saul, Elisha's servant, Ananias and Sapphira. Paul says it's impossible to renew unto repentance any saints that fall away. Peter says something similar. The Unmerciful Servant was forgiven and debt free, but had his original punishment and debt reinstated because he told his master this far and no further...he wouldn't allow the grace shown him to expel the greed in his heart. We can jump outta God's hand anytime we want, and like the dogs and pigs, plenty return to the filth of this world.

A believer is not Just in God's hand .
Ephesians 5:30

“For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.”

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Please explain how and when you were born of the Spirit

Eph 2, explains how. When is questionable, as John 3:8 says "The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth, so is everyone that is born of the Spirit. I do not remember when I was born of the Spirit, but I have evidence that I was.

 

[throughfaith]

Excellent analysis. People seem to not be able to differentiate between a just man falling into sin and crying out to God for His outstretched hand to lift them out of the pit...and climbing down into the filth, sitting down comfortably in it, and spurning the hand of God each time He reaches down to lift us out.

There's mercy for the man who wets his pillow with tears at night as he cries out to God for power to overcome a habit, while there is ZERO help for the one who tells God, "this far and no further, Lord."

Your kinda stuck in the old testament. You need to understand what salvation is and means after the cross / resurrection and giving of the Holy Spirit means today .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Sounds like the "total depravity" of Calvinism's "TULIP".

I disagree. God gave me the free will to accept or reject His offer to regenerate my heart. It's my duty to believe and accept, and He takes care of the rest.

Can I remind you that the most depraved being in the universe -- Satan -- is perfectly capable of being reasoned with? Did not he and God hold a debate regarding Job and did not Satan strike a deal with God as to how he would afflict the man? Yet, we who are far less depraved are incapable of being impressed by the Holy Spirit of our need to repent while in an unregenerate state? Not buying it

My answer to that is that if all of the scriptures do not harmonize then you are misinterpreting them.

 

[Phoneman-777]

" Started out good " ...Were not dealing with Santa here . let's look again at this verse . SEALED.....UNTO ...THE ........DAY OF REDEMPTION!!! .

AND AGAIN .

"Bind up the testimony, seal the LAW among My disciples". The Holy Spirit can't continue to seal you with God's Law if you withdraw your surrender to the authority of God and His law which He commands you to obey by the indwelling grace and power of Jesus.

 

[Phoneman-777]

Your kinda stuck in the old testament. You need to understand what salvation is and means after the cross / resurrection and giving of the Holy Spirit means today .

OT folks looked forward to the Cross for salvation, NT folks look back to it for the same...What the diff?

 

[Phoneman-777]

My answer to that is that if all of the scriptures do not harmonize then you are misinterpreting them.

Can you answer me how it is that God has no trouble talking with the most depraved fallen angel in the entire universe, but He can't even begin to deal with far less objectionable sinners like us until He runs us through a rinse and spin cycle?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

"sadly I think we make a religious defenition of it and distort it to a different meaning" . Thus the reason there are so many different "Christian" denominations

Satan the master decieved. He should get the credit,

 

[throughfaith]

OT folks looked forward to the Cross for salvation, NT folks look back to it for the same...What the diff?

Nonsense. Show me one of the 12 prior to the cross and resurrection that was ' looking forward to the cross ' ? They even had Jesus telling them over and over and they understood none of it about the cross.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Changing your mind and believing are two sides of the same coin .

Not really

repenting is what causes is to go from unbelief to,faith. As God convinces us of his truth and we repent,

 

[throughfaith]

Not really

repenting is what causes is to go from unbelief to,faith. As God convinces us of his truth and we repent,

And what do you believe ' repent ' means ? Within Christianity we have so many different versions of the word .