LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE - WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

[Truth7t7]

That's what his enemies accuse him of. Christ's enemies also accused him of all kinds of evil things.

But you will not find anything shady in the original Scofield Reference Bible (which I have personally studied). Indeed Scofield made a valuable contribution to the proper interpretation of Scripture, even though he may have held some ideas with which other Christians will disagree (such as the Gap Theory of creation).

As to Dispensationalism, it is a legitimate and valuable method of Bible interpretation, since it takes the Bible in its plain literal sense, rather than manufacture allegorical interpretations.

We will disagree, Dispensationalism is a false teaching of man, John N. Darby & C.I. Scofield being new kids in the block

As previously stated, C.I. Scofield abandoned his wife (Leotine) and 2 daughters, he moved to Dallas Texas and married a college girl (Hettie Van Wart) in a church he pastored, they were unaware of him being previously married.

In 1909 Scofield produced the 1909 reference bible, (Hettie) was his secretary in the work, the 1909 Scofield Bible is a production from the hands of (Adulterers)

I agree 100% with your reference of the KJV translators being Godly Christian Men.

However the greatest world influence planting the false teachings of Dispensationalism was adulterer C.I. Scofield and the 1909 reference bible, he died being married to (Hettie) while his lawful wife (Leotine) lived, (Adultery)

C.I. Scofield (Corrupt Fruit)

Matthew 7:15-20KJV
15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

 

[Truth7t7]

Why are you adding to my post? I didn’t ask for you to lecture me on this matter. Does this mean you add to Scripture as well?

I haven’t said a word about whether or not women should hold a position in the church. I have simply asked questions.

I have rarely been partaking in the BDF debates because my position is that the debating of theology is for the men, and that positions in the church should as a rule be held by men. Scripture is clear on that matter, but exceptions can be made if the situation is critical.

What I fail to comprehend is the excessive use of drama and anger when people don’t agree with you. You’re not divine, you’re just a random guy making aggressive comments on the internet.

Think about how you address others. I think Jesus have a few words for you on how to treat your neighbors, even in the KJV.

Your claim of Drama and Anger are biased false opinions, in America we call it "Fake News"

I never claimed to be divine, add to it your false claims of aggression, just more biased "Fake News"

It appears you attempt to control and silence opposing views of truth have failed.

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

 

[surfer14]

I think what is happening is, people's own experiences and backgrounds are shaping their views of Jesus. Most of us know gays, immigrants even illegal immigrants, and minorities. This is different from the past where people kept to their own groups, or hid their identities. High schools, colleges, cities are more diverse now. So, the "woke" pastors may identify these groups as "persecuted" groups, especially if they volunteer and spend time with these groups. In their own interpretation they may view Jesus as a social justice/revolutionary Jesus (and they have Bible verses to support this). Another reason why pastors become more liberal is that they become pushed away by conservative Christians, so they become more liberal by default and want to disassociate themselves even more from other conservative views. For example, a liberal pastor might be upset at how conservatives can be oblivious/turn a blind eye to racism (for people who deny this, segregation? and racism did not magically end after desegregation). Similarly, a conservative pastor can't understand how liberal Christians can be silent on abortion and will disassociate themselves from other liberal views.

Where I live (near DC), most of the pastors are not traditionally conservative pastors. You have to go farther out, or go to a foreign church like a Korean church, to find a conservative pastor. I know a young female (white) pastor from Texas who fits all the elements you list. She grew up in a very conservative small town, which was previously segregated, and now she is very liberal in all aspects and has married a black man and even has performed gay marriages. She attends poetry circles and mingles with nonbelievers. She is very passionate about Jesus and her eyes lighten up when talking about Jesus.

Recently my pastor (who is African American single female) has been talking a lot about equality and racism because of current news. As my church is approximately half black (including a lot of African immigrants) and half all others (mostly white but also a few internationals), we had a "Difficult Conversations" virtual meeting on race relations and heard views from other members. When immigration stuff was on the news, she stated some things like God cares for everyone, we need to care for the least among us, we need to put ourselves in their shoes, etc (we also have a Hispanic congregation). Like many African-Americans, she is quite conservative on social issues, against gay marriage, but votes Democrat. Women pastors are also conscious of the fact that many men do not support women preaching, so they are attentive to these sensitivities. However, men who are against women pastors usually end up leaving these churches anyway, so it is not a contentious issue. My pastor grew up in a conservative African-American Baptist church, and is very passionate about Jesus, and her sermons are Biblical.

Hi Indiangirl,

1. I appreciate your post. It strikes me as honest. I like that. I get the impression you seek truth, and I really like that. I salute you.
2. I think there is some validity to your views on how the polarization happens.
3. My opinions are opposite than yours. If I told you what I think, it would derail the thread (not that it isn't derailed already, hahaha) and potentially get me banned. But please suffice to trust me that I've come to my opinions through a quest for truth. I used to hold views much more in your direction. But I have completely changed my opinion over the years and arrived at where I'm at now. 10 years from now, I might be in a different place with a different opinion. Who knows, but I'm just going to continue to seek truth and change my opinions and actions based on what I find. So for now, just know that some of us evil white racist, nazi, misogynistic, homophobes are the way we are as a result of seeking truth - just like you are.
4. I'm going to give you one suggestion. It's big. This has truly helped me on my journey. Here it is:

Stop seeing the world as you would like it to be, and start seeing the world as it really is.

No one can just go out and do this. It is a process. It takes courage to even try. It takes a willingness to admit you were wrong on ... almost everything. Pray to the Lord for it, and I'm confident He will grant it to you - bit by bit. I think God might call it wisdom, but I'm not sure.

If your journey is anything like mine it'll be something like this. I pray to God for wisdom. He shows me something I believe in that's wrong. I go through a time of cognitive dissonance - holding onto it even as I come to understand it as wrong. Then I accept the pain - yes, I've been wrong about this all my life and I've wasted decades pursuing a lie. At that point I can start moving along the new path with the truth that God has given me. And then the cycle repeats itself with another issue. Over and over. And eventually you look back at the person you were 20 or 30 years ago and you laugh and shake your head in amazement.

That's how I've gotten to be where I am.

 

[Dino246]

Phoebe was a servant of the church in Romans 16:1

Romans 16:1KJV
16 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

The word translated "servant" in Romans 16:1 is the word translated "deacon" in 1 Timothy. She's a deacon. There's no reason whatsoever to use "deacon" where it refers to a male and "servant" where it refers to a female unless one has an a priori gender bias.

No slander whatsoever, Virginia Mollenkott worked on the NIV, she was a decorated Lesbian Activist.

Do the homework, and don't be a donkey. You're dredging up long-refuted arguments. Her orientation was not known at the time she worked on the NIV, and her contribution was minor. It's quite pathetic that you're bringing this up.

You run from truth in false personal attacks, claiming slander.

I tell you squarely that you are engaging in slander. How is that running from truth?

The progressive liberals in the USA do the same, Racist, Racist, Racist to silence truth.

I don't give a flying flip what such people do. I follow neither them nor their practices.

 

[Dino246]

1. The NIV is probably one of the worst English bible versions to come along. It cannot be considered Scripture, but a corruption of Scripture. Obviously you have not studied the matter.

People who have studied more extensively than you disagree with you.

 

[Dino246]

The technique is using the (Sword) of God's truth, you can cry, kick, scream, and deny all ya want, but God's words stand true.

God's words and instruction are very clear.

A Pastor/Bishop/Deacon is to be a (Man) and the (Husband) of one wife, women are excluded from these offices.

You're welcome to your uninformed opinion, and you have the right to be wrong.

 

[Truth7t7]

The word translated "servant" in Romans 16:1 is the word translated "deacon" in 1 Timothy. She's a deacon. There's no reason whatsoever to use "deacon" where it refers to a male and "servant" where it refers to a female unless one has an a priori gender bias.


Do the homework, and don't be a donkey. You're dredging up long-refuted arguments. Her orientation was not known at the time she worked on the NIV, and her contribution was minor. It's quite pathetic that you're bringing this up.


I tell you squarely that you are engaging in slander. How is that running from truth?


I don't give a flying flip what such people do. I follow neither them nor their practices.

"Flying Filp"?

What chapter and Verse is that in the Holy Bible?

 

[Truth7t7]

The word translated "servant" in Romans 16:1 is the word translated "deacon" in 1 Timothy. She's a deacon. There's no reason whatsoever to use "deacon" where it refers to a male and "servant" where it refers to a female unless one has an a priori gender bias.


Do the homework, and don't be a donkey. You're dredging up long-refuted arguments. Her orientation was not known at the time she worked on the NIV, and her contribution was minor. It's quite pathetic that you're bringing this up.


I tell you squarely that you are engaging in slander. How is that running from truth?


I don't give a flying flip what such people do. I follow neither them nor their practices.

Perhaps you could have taught the 50+ KJV scholars a thing or two concerning their translation?

Romans 16:1KJV
16 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

 

[Dino246]

Perhaps you could have taught the 50+ KJV scholars a thing or two concerning their translation?

If they had an a priori gender bias, then yes, I could.

ISV Now I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon in the church at Cenchrea.

NIV I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church in Cenchreae.

NRSV I commend to you our sister Phoebe, a deacon of the church at Cenchreae,

 

[Mem]

LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE - WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

Well, its certainly good advice. And so, I learn more and more, whom I would appoint my champions and whom I would designation as the auxiliary.

 

[lenna]

You're welcome to your uninformed opinion, and you have the right to be wrong.

this dude appears to be connected or frequents something called 'the watchman on the wall ministry'

here is a sample post of his on FB which connects back to another forum (not this one). you can see his name Truth7t7 at the bottom of it. Mind you I am not a preterist myself (partial most likely but certainly not full) but this dude rants against everything and everyone and then puts Jesus Christ is Lord at the bottom as though he has some sort of stamp of approval from God Himself

Post is from 2019, but seems his style is well evolved (has not changed much)

As I said, he connects with another forum not this one, but the article on that forum is from 2018, so dude is very busy with his 'ministry'. he is not here to discuss, but is here to dogmatically force himself on everyone



Watchmen On The Wall Ministries And Radio

September 14, 2019 ·

*******FALSE DOCTRINE WARNING, PRETERISM*******
A **JESUIT** IS THE FATHER OF PARTIAL PRETERISM!!!!
NEED I SAY MORE???
Truth7t7: The False Teaching Of (Partial Preterism) From The Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest (Luis De Alcazar 1554-1613) During The Counter Reformation.
Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest, Luis De Alcazar, "A Corrupt Tree"!
Matthew 7:18KJV
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 12:33KJV
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Wikipedia: Luis del Alcázar (Ludovicus ab Alcasar, Louis of Alcazar) (1554–1613) was a Spanish Jesuit theologian.
He is known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy, in commentary on the Book of Revelation; his work is regarded as the first major application of the method of interpretation of prophecy by reading in terms of the author's contemporary concerns.[5] His view was that everything in the Apocalypse, apart from the three final chapters, refers to events that already have come to pass.
Wikipedia: Preterism
Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened in the 2nd century BC, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.
Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy - Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the Counter-Reformation.
Moses Stuart noted that Alcasar's preterist interpretation was of considerable benefit to the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[3] and preterism has been described in modern eschatological commentary as a Catholic defense against the Protestant Historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.
Jesus Christ Is The Lord!
Truth7t7

 

[lenna]

as an aside there is some Patricia somebody or other that seems to be a leader and she puts "Shabbat Shalom' all over her youtube channel, so we have some sort of amalgamated/opinionated dogmatic 'preacher' here which explains his what he thinks is a God appointed calling.

believing in just about everything as a conspiracy. duh

 

[lenna]

and apparently a whole bunch of 'watchman pastors' and how to become one of them, if you look up their site, watchman on the wall

so we have an organized individual here, employing tactics rather than discussing, which lines up with his constant ad hominim attacks

no one is going to have any decent exchange with someone who posts that way

 

[lenna]

Perhaps you could have taught the 50+ KJV scholars a thing or two concerning their translation?

Romans 16:1KJV
16 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

as I already stated, Paul calls himself a servant of the Lord Jesus Christ

ridiculous how you try to change what scripture plainly states in order to fit your personal agenda

not impressed by bullying and attacking which appears to be your operative maneuvering around the forums here

 

[Blik]

1. The NIV is probably one of the worst English bible versions to come along. It cannot be considered Scripture, but a corruption of Scripture. Obviously you have not studied the matter.

2. How are you so certain that James I was a homosexual? But let's say that even if that is true, how does that affect the King James Bible, since James simply authorized this translation? He had no control on the translators, who were all godly men, and would have adamantly refused to alter the Bible on the whim of a king. They would sooner have become martyrs.

3. Have you personally evaluated the King James Bible and compared this translation to the Hebrew and Greek texts? This Bible was regarded as the Word of God by all English speaking peoples worldwide for over 300 years. That included conservative theologians, scholars, commentators, pastors, and evangelists. Just go to Bible Hub and check out all the commentaries.

That was my point, that James was (history tells me) a homosexual did not affect the translation at all. But what DID affect it was the ideas that were accepted at the time the translation was made. Those men working on it tried their best to translate correctly, but their accepted ideas did affect it. It was popular to be against Jews, even to kill them for being Jews. In Spain royalty was making it a government practice. It shows in such as translating the word Passover as Easter, for example.

All translations are of men doing their best to translate correctly, and every one must be read after learning something about the translators to learn of the prejudices they have. It would be silly to throw out the wonderful KJV because of the prejudices of the times, it is just good to know what they were. It is silly to throw out an entire bible because of a difference of opinion of what a word should be.

 

[Truth7t7]

this dude appears to be connected or frequents something called 'the watchman on the wall ministry'

here is a sample post of his on FB which connects back to another forum (not this one). you can see his name Truth7t7 at the bottom of it. Mind you I am not a preterist myself (partial most likely but certainly not full) but this dude rants against everything and everyone and then puts Jesus Christ is Lord at the bottom as though he has some sort of stamp of approval from God Himself

Post is from 2019, but seems his style is well evolved (has not changed much)

As I said, he connects with another forum not this one, but the article on that forum is from 2018, so dude is very busy with his 'ministry'. he is not here to discuss, but is here to dogmatically force himself on everyone



Watchmen On The Wall Ministries And Radio

September 14, 2019 ·

*******FALSE DOCTRINE WARNING, PRETERISM*******
A **JESUIT** IS THE FATHER OF PARTIAL PRETERISM!!!!
NEED I SAY MORE???
Truth7t7: The False Teaching Of (Partial Preterism) From The Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest (Luis De Alcazar 1554-1613) During The Counter Reformation.
Roman Catholic Jesuit Priest, Luis De Alcazar, "A Corrupt Tree"!
Matthew 7:18KJV
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Matthew 12:33KJV
Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Wikipedia: Luis del Alcázar (Ludovicus ab Alcasar, Louis of Alcazar) (1554–1613) was a Spanish Jesuit theologian.
He is known for his Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (1614) published after his death, putting forward what would later be called a preterist view of Biblical prophecy, in commentary on the Book of Revelation; his work is regarded as the first major application of the method of interpretation of prophecy by reading in terms of the author's contemporary concerns.[5] His view was that everything in the Apocalypse, apart from the three final chapters, refers to events that already have come to pass.
Wikipedia: Preterism
Preterism is a Christian eschatological view that interprets some (partial preterism) or all (full preterism) prophecies of the Bible as events which have already happened. This school of thought interprets the Book of Daniel as referring to events that happened in the 2nd century BC, while seeing the prophecies of Revelation as events that happened in the first century AD. Preterism holds that Ancient Israel finds its continuation or fulfillment in the Christian church at the destruction of Jerusalem in AD 70.
The term preterism comes from the Latin praeter, which Webster's 1913 dictionary lists as a prefix denoting that something is "past" or "beyond". Adherents of preterism are commonly known as preterists. Preterism teaches that either all (full preterism) or a majority (partial preterism) of the Olivet discourse had come to pass by AD 70.
Historically, preterists and non-preterists have generally agreed that the Jesuit Luis de Alcasar (1554–1613) wrote the first systematic preterist exposition of prophecy - Vestigatio arcani sensus in Apocalypsi (published in 1614)—during the Counter-Reformation.
Moses Stuart noted that Alcasar's preterist interpretation was of considerable benefit to the Roman Catholic Church during its arguments with Protestants,[3] and preterism has been described in modern eschatological commentary as a Catholic defense against the Protestant Historicist view which identified the Roman Catholic Church as a persecuting apostasy.
Jesus Christ Is The Lord!
Truth7t7

Big Smiles, I have the (Hate Speech) cops hot on my trail, perhaps the popes involved

Preterism Is A False Heretical Teaching, Just As Dispensationalism Is.

There will be a future literal human Man in Jerusalem revealed as God (Antichrist), he will have 3.5 years

Jesus Christ will return in the heavens, immediately after the future great tribulation in fire and final judgement, dissolving the existing heavens and earth by his fire

On this last day the resurrection and judgement of all will take place, the righteous inherit eternal life, the wicked eternal damnation in the lake of fire.

The New Heavens, Earth, Jerusalem are revealed for eternity, judgement complete, eternity begins.

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

 

[Truth7t7]

as an aside there is some Patricia somebody or other that seems to be a leader and she puts "Shabbat Shalom' all over her youtube channel, so we have some sort of amalgamated/opinionated dogmatic 'preacher' here which explains his what he thinks is a God appointed calling.

believing in just about everything as a conspiracy. duh

Real Big Smiles!

 

[Truth7t7]

and apparently a whole bunch of 'watchman pastors' and how to become one of them, if you look up their site, watchman on the wall

so we have an organized individual here, employing tactics rather than discussing, which lines up with his constant ad hominim attacks

no one is going to have any decent exchange with someone who posts that way

Your claim I'm affiliated with watchman on the wall is a big joke, and false claim.

I don't have a clue how they obtained my post, but I do oppose Preterism as a false teaching.

I have posted on (CARM) for years, they currently are experiencing problems, so I been here a month or so.

I have nothing to hide, does it hurt your inner feelings to know your NIV was created in part by a Decorated Lesbian Activist (Virginia Mollenkott)?

Does that hurt you so bad, your digging with every breath trying toooooo silence this truth?

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

 

[Susanna]

Your claim I'm affiliated with watchman on the wall is a big joke, and false claim.

I don't have a clue how they obtained my post, but I do oppose Preterism as a false teaching.

I have posted on (CARM) for years, they currently are experiencing problems, so I been here a month or so.

I have nothing to hide, does it hurt your inner feelings to know your NIV was created in part by a Decorated Lesbian Activist (Virginia Mollenkott)?

Does that hurt you so bad, your digging with every breath trying toooooo silence this truth?

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

All added up your posts are a sorry sight of attacks on everyone else.

Have you noticed that your only compadres are cv5 and P4T? Not a good sign, I have to say.

 

[tourist]

One has nothing to do with the other, there are also male gay pastors nowadays.
I guess blame the woman for everything forever, as our forefather Adam set the precedent ("the woman whom You gave me")...

Yeah, this is a typical women bashing thread.