LET THE WOMAN LEARN IN SILENCE - WHAT DO YOU THINK THIS MEANS?

[SoulWeaver]

Novum Testamentum Graece is a (Greek Translation) created by 5 people behind closed doors,

all new versions follow this translation, NIV, NASB, ESV, etc

(Kurt Aland) was the committee leader, he divorced his wife (Ingeborg Aland) and three children, and ran off with and married his college student (Barbara Ehlers Aland) with Kurt being 22 years her senior (Adultery)

Roman Catholic Jesuit Cardinal, (Carlo Maria Martini) was a liberal on the committee, promoting same sex marriage and homosexuality.

Did God preserve his words through these three people, Real Big Smiles!

I asked you about Greek original inspired text not about translations

 

[Truth7t7]

Romans 16:1

Stephens 1550 Textus Receptus
sunisthmi de umin foibhn thn adelfhn hmwn ousan diakonon thV ekklhsiaV thV en kegcreaiV

Scrivener 1894 Textus Receptus
sunisthmi de umin foibhn thn adelfhn hmwn ousan diakonon thV ekklhsiaV thV en kegcreaiV

Byzantine Majority
sunisthmi de umin foibhn thn adelfhn hmwn ousan diakonon thV ekklhsiaV thV en kegcreaiV

Alexandrian
sunisthmi de umin foibhn thn adelfhn hmwn ousan [kai] diakonon thV ekklhsiaV thV en kegcreaiV

Hort and Westcott
sunisthmi de umin foibhn thn adelfhn hmwn ousan kai diakonon thV ekklhsiaV thV en kegcreaiV

You run about searching for hope a woman can be a pastor, going so far as a single Greek word (Diakonos) trying desparately to find an exclusion to 1 Timothy 3:1-13 below

Lexicon :: Strong's G1249 - diakonos

KJV Translation Count — Total: 31x
The KJV translates Strong's G1249 in the following manner: minister (20x), servant (8x), deacon (3x).

God's words and instruction are very clear.

A Pastor/Bishop/Deacon is to be a (Man) and the (Husband) of one wife, women are excluded from these offices.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 King James Version (KJV)
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[Blik]

Perhaps you are using a MeeToo translation, endorsed by Ellen Degeneres?

Romans 16:1KJV
16 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant of the church which is at Cenchrea:

What a snotty response! I used the NIV translation. I am not familiar with the original language, but I should think that it does not change that Paul respected and praised women for their role in the church.

 

[SoulWeaver]

You run about searching for hope a woman can be a pastor, going so far as a single Greek word (Diakonos) trying desparately to find an exclusion to 1 Timothy 3:1-13 below

Lexicon :: Strong's G1249 - diakonos

KJV Translation Count — Total: 31x
The KJV translates Strong's G1249 in the following manner: minister (20x), servant (8x), deacon (3x).

God's words and instruction are very clear.

A Pastor/Bishop/Deacon is to be a (Man) and the (Husband) of one wife, women are excluded from these offices.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 King James Version (KJV)
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Thank God (I mean it)! Finally an answer to the actual question... Thank you.
The next thing I'll ask is,

1. why was Phoebe chosen as the church emissary? Do churches just choose a random member as the church emissary when they send them to a mission, or they send a distinguished member?

2. as God is not the author of confusion, why would God use the Word deaconos for Phoebe which you claim to be ambiguous, and not the word doulos, that is 100% non ambiguous and consistently rendered as servant?

Since you are the one making the claim, the burden of proof is actually on you.
But anyway, it is most likely from context that Phoebe was a deacon, in the sense that I believe, from what I wrote above. I was trying to get with you down to the point, that you cannot actually prove what you claim, you can only prefer such and such intepretation.

I don't have a horse that I bet on in this race - I don't seek any position in churches. Seeking recognition before men is imho vainglory and "you have already received your wages". I actually do concur that males are preferred in leadership roles for several reasons - it is very dangerous even today for a single woman evangelist, men don't have to deal with pregnancy or breastfeeding, so they are more available for service without interruptions. (I believe Phoebe was an elder mature Christian and a widow or virgin.) And also for the sake of the message itself, because there are folks who will simply not accept Christ or anything spiritual from a Christian person with XX chromosome, so a Christian with XY chromosome must administer it in order for these people to not be lost!

But also I am convinced in my spirit, at the very least, and undoubtedly, that when a man is not available or doing work, God will raise and use a woman. We see this principle with Jael, and God does not change in the ways He operates. So there are definitely some women pastors that are legit. I do not say all.

Beware not to quench the Spirit. Maybe the question you should ask yourself is, should we men engage more and dedicate ourselves to church? So we can get more effective spiritual leaders and holy men. But leadership is about serving. The pyramid of power is upside down. You can lead only as many people, as you are ready to spiritually support. Jesus is at the bottom of the pyramid, having humbled Himself unto death. Moses was also exalted as a leader, and he was "humble above all men". This is exactly what makes one fit for leadership. What really gets me on this thread is the large amount of anger and vitriolic responses towards other believers, which does not reflect a good example.

 

[DesertWanderer]

Look out! You’re going to be attacked!

Again, not my words, but God's.

 

[DesertWanderer]

Can anyone name a female pastor of any church anywhere that isn't preaching a woke gospel of gay-rights, equality, anti-racism, environmentalism, pro-immigration, etc Any of them that aren't into the prosperity gospel? Any that don't preach watered down Christianity?

Yes. And I would caution against suggesting that women are only capable of having these views listed in your post.

The only issue here is what the word of God says, not trying to rationalize why He says it.

 

[DesertWanderer]

That's a subtitle. Don't confuse it for Scripture.

Okay, I won't.

I'm not interested in your fallacious arguments.

Fair enough. But are you really interested in what the word of God says?

 

[Truth7t7]

What a snotty response! I used the NIV translation. I am not familiar with the original language, but I should think that it does not change that Paul respected and praised women for their role in the church.

Perhaps it was the Lesbian activist Virginia Mollenkott who worked on the NIV, women's rights you know?

Wikipedia:Virginia Ramey Mollenkott,
best known for her "God of the Breasts" interpretation of El Shaddai, spent her 44-year professional career teaching college level English literature and language, but developed specializations in feminist theology and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender theology during the second half of that career.

Mollenkott served as an assistant editor of Seventeenth Century News from 1965 to 1975, and as a stylistic consultant for the New International Version of the Bible for the American Bible Society

In 1992 Mollenkott received the New Jersey Lesbian and Gay Achievement Award, and in 1999 received a Lifetime Achievement Award from SAGE (Senior Action in a Gay Environment).[2]
She has also won awards for her writing. Is the Homosexual My Neighbor: A Positive Christian Response won the Integrity Award in 1979. In 2002, her book Omnigender: A Trans-Religious Approach won the Lambda Literary Award and the Ben Franklin Award.

 

[Truth7t7]

Thank God (I mean it)! Finally an answer to the actual question... Thank you.
The next thing I'll ask is,

1. why was Phoebe chosen as the church emissary? Do churches just choose a random member as the church emissary when they send them to a mission, or they send a distinguished member?

2. as God is not the author of confusion, why would God use the Word deaconos for Phoebe which you claim to be ambiguous, and not the word doulos, that is 100% non ambiguous and consistently rendered as servant?

Since you are the one making the claim, the burden of proof is actually on you.
But anyway, it is most likely from context that Phoebe was a deacon, in the sense that I believe, from what I wrote above. I was trying to get with you down to the point, that you cannot actually prove what you claim, you can only prefer such and such intepretation.

I don't have a horse that I bet on in this race - I don't seek any position in churches. Seeking recognition before men is imho vainglory and "you have already received your wages". I actually do concur that males are preferred in leadership roles for several reasons - it is very dangerous even today for a single woman evangelist, men don't have to deal with pregnancy or breastfeeding, so they are more available for service without interruptions. (I believe Phoebe was an elder mature Christian and a widow or virgin.) And also for the sake of the message itself, because there are folks who will simply not accept Christ or anything spiritual from a Christian person with XX chromosome, so a Christian with XY chromosome must administer it in order for these people to not be lost!

But also I am convinced in my spirit, at the very least, and undoubtedly, that when a man is not available or doing work, God will raise and use a woman. We see this principle with Jael, and God does not change in the ways He operates. So there are definitely some women pastors that are legit. I do not say all.

Beware not to quench the Spirit. Maybe the question you should ask yourself is, should we men engage more and dedicate ourselves to church? So we can get more effective spiritual leaders and holy men. But leadership is about serving. The pyramid of power is upside down. You can lead only as many people, as you are ready to spiritually support. Jesus is at the bottom of the pyramid, having humbled Himself unto death. Moses was also exalted as a leader, and he was "humble above all men". This is exactly what makes one fit for leadership. What really gets me on this thread is the large amount of anger and vitriolic responses towards other believers, which does not reflect a good example.

Your appeal to human emotion, and personal attack dosent cancel the truth of scripture below.

The horse is dead, we have run around the bush several times, we will (Disagree)

God's words and instruction are very clear.

A Pastor/Bishop/Deacon is to be a (Man) and the (Husband) of one wife, women are excluded from these offices.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 King James Version (KJV)
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

 

[SoulWeaver]

Your appeal to human emotion, and personal attack dosent cancel the truth of scripture below.

The horse is dead, we have run around the bush several times, we will (Disagree)

God's words and instruction are very clear.

A Pastor/Bishop/Deacon is to be a (Man) and the (Husband) of one wife, women are excluded from these offices.

1 Timothy 3:1-13 King James Version (KJV)
3 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;
3 Not given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not covetous;
4 One that ruleth well his own house, having his children in subjection with all gravity;
5 (For if a man know not how to rule his own house, how shall he take care of the church of God?)
6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good report of them which are without; lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.
8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre;
9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
10 And let these also first be proved; then let them use the office of a deacon, being found blameless.
11 Even so must their wives be grave, not slanderers, sober, faithful in all things.
12 Let the deacons be the husbands of one wife, ruling their children and their own houses well.
13 For they that have used the office of a deacon well purchase to themselves a good degree, and great boldness in the faith which is in Christ Jesus.

You have been beating around the bush avoiding straight answer 10 times and saying ugly things. Accusing others, then backpedaling. What does it profit? The Lord will use whomever He chooses to use... have a blessed evening.

 

[Truth7t7]

You have been beating around the bush avoiding straight answer 10 times and saying ugly things. Accusing others, then backpedaling. What does it profit? The Lord will use whomever He chooses to use... have a blessed evening.

It is your opinion using the words (Ugly Things) and a (False Claim) of myself accusing anyone.

A typical ploy of person's who have lost a debate, and resort to personal attacks.

The Lord Jesus Christ has no women pastors in his ordained church.

(We Will Disagree)

Jesus Christ Is Lord!

 

[proverbs35]

The whole issue is who has authority in the local church. There is no qualifying scripture for women to do so as like the men have. The men are given the authority and role of leadership regarding preaching and teaching in the general assembly in the church. It is such an issue that 1Corinthians 14:34 uses such words as keep silence, not permitted to speak, to be under obedience, and verse 35, a shame for women to speak in the church. Verse 37 sums up the exhortation with "if any man think himself to be a prophet or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord". 1st. Peter speaks of a woman having a meek and quiet spirit- which is in the sight of God of great price, of which women should strive to attain, rather than to be in control and contrary to scripture.

I'm not here to debate female pastors. People who are pro female pastors have their minds made up. Likewise, people who are against female pastors have their minds made up. Debate is useless, and it rarely changes the opposing parties mind.

I agree that the Bible instructs women to cultivate a meek and gentle spirit. The Bible also tells men to be meek and gentle.

In that same chapter of 1 Peter 3, after Peter instructs wives to have a quiet and gentle spirit (some translations use meek. Some use gentle) Peter instructs ALL Christians (men and women) to be gentle to others.

But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect, 1 Pet 3:15.

Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Eph 4:2

Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Phil 4:5

to slander no one, to be peaceable and considerate, and always to be gentle toward everyone. Tit 3:2

Therefore, as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Col 3:12

Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently.
Gal 6:1.

Paul practiced gentleness.
2 Corinthians 10:1

Jesus is gentle a.k.a meek. Matthew 11:29

Gentleness is a fruit of the spirit. Galatians 5:22

Moses was gentle a.k.a meek. Num 12:3

Gentleness/meekness is part of the Christian lifestyle. Men are not exempt.

BOTH men and women are instructed to be quiet.

There is a time for everything, and a season for every activity under the heavens: a time to be silent and a time to speak, Ecc 3:7

Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires Jam 1:19

I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 1 Tim 2:2

Whoever guards his mouth preserves his life; he who opens wide his lips comes to ruin. Pro 13:3

make it your ambition to lead a quiet life: You should mind your own business
1 The 4:11

Whoever belittles his neighbor lacks sense, but a man of understanding remains silent. Pro 11:12

Sin is not ended by multiplying words, but the prudent hold their tongues. Pro 10:19

Some like to remind women to be meek and quiet. However, there are men in the church (only God knows an exact number) who talk too much, gossip and slander.

John wrote about a man in the church, Diotrephes, who talked too much spreading malicious nonsense about others. 3 John 1:10

Another man in the Bible, Zechariah, spoke with such disbelief that God muted and silenced him - for several months. Luke 1:20

Not all or even most men are qualified to speak as in pastor and/or teach in the church assembly. There are plenty of men (and women) in churches talking too much and speaking words that do not glorify God or edify the body.

 

[Blik]

Perhaps it was the Lesbian activist Virginia Mollenkott who worked on the NIV, women's rights you know?

Wikipedia:Virginia Ramey Mollenkott,
best known for her "God of the Breasts" interpretation of El Shaddai, spent her 44-year professional career teaching college level English literature and language, but developed specializations in feminist theology and lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender theology during the second half of that career.

Mollenkott served as an assistant editor of Seventeenth Century News from 1965 to 1975, and as a stylistic consultant for the New International Version of the Bible for the American Bible Society

In 1992 Mollenkott received the New Jersey Lesbian and Gay Achievement Award, and in 1999 received a Lifetime Achievement Award from SAGE (Senior Action in a Gay Environment).[2]
She has also won awards for her writing. Is the Homosexual My Neighbor: A Positive Christian Response won the Integrity Award in 1979. In 2002, her book Omnigender: A Trans-Religious Approach won the Lambda Literary Award and the Ben Franklin Award.

You don't seem content with snide remarks to me, now you are smearing all the people who worked on a translation of scripture! I am sorry for you, don't think smear tactics are the way of Christ. You should try reading scripture with the Holy Spirit guiding you, it is very rewarding.

 

[surfer14]

Yes. And I would caution against suggesting that women are only capable of having these views listed in your post.

The only issue here is what the word of God says, not trying to rationalize why He says it.

Nice strawman there. I never said that a woman can't have conservative christian viewpoints. But a female in leadership by definition can not be anything remotely close to a conservative Christian. I know Christian women that wouldn't mind to have the death penalty for gays - that's about as conservative as it gets. But I don't know of any Christian women in leadership that even dare to say that homosexuality is an abomination before the Lord. I think they're pretty much all woke.

In regards to the why's: My point is to get people to grasp the idea of "If result Y is the inevitable outcome of condition X, and we don't like result Y, then maybe we should avoid condition X." If you don't want to go to a woke church of SJW's and virtue signalers, then start by avoiding any church with female leadership.

 

[Truth7t7]

You don't seem content with snide remarks to me, now you are smearing all the people who worked on a translation of scripture! I am sorry for you, don't think smear tactics are the way of Christ. You should try reading scripture with the Holy Spirit guiding you, it is very rewarding.

The Holy Spirit does guide me, that's why you're now aware that the NIV book was created in part by a (Seasoned, Decorated, Lesbian Activist) Virginia Mollenkott, Seen Below

 

[surfer14]

The Holy Spirit does guide me, that's why you're now aware that the NIV book was created in part by a (Seasoned, Decorated, Lesbian Activist) Virginia Mollenkott, Seen Below

View attachment 219310

Truth,
I had never heard of this before. Thank you for letting us know. I've also read some really sketchy things about the scofield study bible. Which Bible version do you go with?

 

[Blik]

It seems so evident, so certain that all scripture points to that God created us to be in teams of woman and man, working together with the man the lead person but the woman of equal status but to look to the man to lead. When the man does not step up to fill that role the woman fills the gap.

That means that there can be times that a women fills the role of pastor of a church.

 

[Truth7t7]

Truth,
I had never heard of this before. Thank you for letting us know. I've also read some really sketchy things about the scofield study bible. Which Bible version do you go with?

I read the KJV as would be very obvious by my continued citation if it.

I believe Scofield used the KJV, but added reference notes relating to his false teachings known as dispensationalism

Scofield also divorced his wife Leotine and two daughters, and ran off with a college girl (Hettie Van Wart) (Adultery)

Scofield was beyond a shady character, and is the foundational father of modern dispensationalism, his Dallas church member and prodigy (Lewis Sperry Chaffer) started (Dallas Theological Seminary) the fountain of Dispensationalism today.

 

[Blik]

The Holy Spirit does guide me, that's why you're now aware that the NIV book was created in part by a (Seasoned, Decorated, Lesbian Activist) Virginia Mollenkott, Seen Below

View attachment 219310

The NIV is accepted as scripture, you are an exception. The KJV was ordered by a homosexual, do you accept that version?

You are using ways of speaking that are clearly against scripture, is it OK for you to post such?

 

[Truth7t7]

The NIV is accepted as scripture, you are an exception. The KJV was ordered by a homosexual, do you accept that version?

You are using ways of speaking that are clearly against scripture, is it OK for you to post such?

It's your biased opinion, words I'm using are against scripture.

looks like the liberal (Hate Speech) cops are hot on my trail, silence the truth, hide

Are you really Justin Trudeau?