Less well-known Rapture verses. The case for the Rapture is compelling.
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40Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 41Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
42Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. 44Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
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[gently] The Day of the Lord and The Day of Christ are not the same
Our Lord's next coming in the clouds does not come as a thief but as lightening shining from east to west.
Paul does not speak about loud bangs and fervent heat, he speaks about the earth being set free from it's bondage to decay. Only Paul speaks about the rapture .... why is this? is there an inconsistency in the bible? The Jerusalem crowd seem to say one thing and Paul another..
There is no inconsistency, they are both right, but at different times. This world will ultimately end with a loud bang and fervent heat but before this is the 1,000 year reign of Christ and before that is the rapture.
Why?
Why is Israel being gathered to their own land? why will the church be gathered to meet the Lord in the air? the answer is to protect them while God pours His wrath out upon the nations at the start of the 1, 000 years.
Only Paul understood it for he knew the church would be among the nations and therefore must be taken away from the wrath. The concept of the church among the nations was a concept the Jews could not get their heads around, they thought the nations were to come to Jerusalem as the prophets said. [yes, even though God showed them again and again]
[gently] The Day of the Lord and The Day of Christ are not the same
Our Lord's next coming in the clouds does not come as a thief but as lightening shining from east to west.
Paul does not speak about loud bangs and fervent heat, he speaks about the earth being set free from it's bondage to decay. Only Paul speaks about the rapture .... why is this? is there an inconsistency in the bible? The Jerusalem crowd seem to say one thing and Paul another..
There is no inconsistency, they are both right, but at different times. This world will ultimately end with a loud bang and fervent heat but before this is the 1,000 year reign of Christ and before that is the rapture.
Why?
Why is Israel being gathered to their own land? why will the church be gathered to meet the Lord in the air? the answer is to protect them while God pours His wrath out upon the nations at the start of the 1, 000 years.
Only Paul understood it for he knew the church would be among the nations and therefore must be taken away from the wrath. The concept of the church among the nations was a concept the Jews could not get their heads around, they thought the nations were to come to Jerusalem as the prophets said. [yes, even though God showed them again and again]
In my study, it seems to me that "I will come to you" refers to Jesus coming to believers via His Holy Spirit...but the Second Coming refers to His literal presence in the near future.
BTW, the Holy Spirit is Christ's "representative" on Earth...but the papacy claims the pope is God's "vicar" aka "vicarius fiili dei" or "vicar of the Son of God" aka literally "AntiChrist".
BTW, the Holy Spirit is Christ's "representative" on Earth...but the papacy claims the pope is God's "vicar" aka "vicarius fiili dei" or "vicar of the Son of God" aka literally "AntiChrist".
It sounds all good,,
That A secret rapture will happen and Jesus will take away the saint's secretly, (which is impossible), then after a thousand years Jesus will come again literally and with noise.
Israel gathered and all the other things that are said, but bible verses with the details would be great.
Saying it and thinking it but if it is a fairy tail it is dangerous.
That A secret rapture will happen and Jesus will take away the saint's secretly, (which is impossible), then after a thousand years Jesus will come again literally and with noise.
Israel gathered and all the other things that are said, but bible verses with the details would be great.
Saying it and thinking it but if it is a fairy tail it is dangerous.
No. After SEVEN years... then He will "RETURN" to the earth (VISIBLY [/'openly-manifest' 1Tim6:15]--just like He went up into Heaven, VISIBLY per Acts 1), not "after a thousand years," as you have it to be saying... IOW, pre-tribbers [myself included 
] are not saying it, as you have it to be saying. = )
[btw, if I recall rightly, it was Edward Irving (an 'Historicist') who came up with the expression "secret rapture"... He was not a "pre-tribber" from what I understand ]
] are not saying it, as you have it to be saying. = )[btw, if I recall rightly, it was Edward Irving (an 'Historicist') who came up with the expression "secret rapture"... He was not a "pre-tribber" from what I understand
]
Show me " it is foolish to watch , wait, and be ready for Jesus to come"
Show me this position you take and mocking of those in this terrible error of what The bible ends in "
" the spirit AND THE BRIDE say come"
You disagree with that and say it is foolish.
Just read all the verses that disagree with your position.
Do a search.
Your doctrine NEVER goes there.
NEVER.
In fact , it is BASED on the opposite.
No messiah coming till the trib is over.
No need to watch, or wait, or be ready.
AHEM
now who is positioned as "dangerous".
Maybe the one preaching the bible ending is folly?????
Show me this position you take and mocking of those in this terrible error of what The bible ends in "
" the spirit AND THE BRIDE say come"
You disagree with that and say it is foolish.
Just read all the verses that disagree with your position.
Do a search.
Your doctrine NEVER goes there.
NEVER.
In fact , it is BASED on the opposite.
No messiah coming till the trib is over.
No need to watch, or wait, or be ready.
AHEM
now who is positioned as "dangerous".
Maybe the one preaching the bible ending is folly?????
Most argue 7 years after the secret rapture, and still others more honest say 3 1/2 years due to exercise of their common sense which says they can’t rip the entire 70th Week out of the pages of history because half the 70th week had already ticked off the prophetic clock by the time we get to Calvary.
They’ll eat up anything as long as it’s got that Jesuit Futurist spicy kick to it.
They’ll eat up anything as long as it’s got that Jesuit Futurist spicy kick to it.
I'll be back either later tonight, or tomorrow... I've got some things I need to tend to atm...
... for now, I'm just going to leave here something I had planned to post many pages back, when it was being discussed, about Irenaeus... I've noticed something for years about how post-tribbers (etc) are reading this quote, but which (b/c of what else he says elsewhere) I do not believe they are interpreting correctly what he is saying, here:
[quoting Irenaeus]
"And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, 'There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.'(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”
--Irenaeus
--post-tribbers (etc) see him EQUATING the green and the blue [he isn't ]
--pre-tribbers (not that he was necessarily "pre-trib / pre-70th-Wk") are pointing out that he is MAKING A DISTINCTION (JUST AS WE "pre-tribbers" are!) BETWEEN "the Church [which is His body]" (all those saved "in this present age") and "the righteous" (who are the ones coming to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--that is, IN / DURING / WITHIN the trib years--i.e. "the righteous" in Matt13:43 / Matt25:[31-34]46)
It's like a mental block... when they read the words "the righteous" they automatically think "the Church [which is His body]" and declare, "SEE! Irenaeus said WE WILL BE HERE THEN"... No, he isn't saying that.
At least not here in THIS quote (and several others I've read, of his writings... where he seems to believe there are three levels of "destination" for believers [as in, levels of reward, type of thing]: Heaven, paradise [I think he said], and earth... )
I've seen people do this, for years, when reading this quote. = )
[same thing took place in one of my posts while back, in this very thread... I was talking about "the righteous"/the "BLESSED"/those who come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture," IN the TRIB years, but this was seemingly not recognized that I was saying this, by the poster/commenter... as far as I could tell, anyway)]
... for now, I'm just going to leave here something I had planned to post many pages back, when it was being discussed, about Irenaeus... I've noticed something for years about how post-tribbers (etc) are reading this quote, but which (b/c of what else he says elsewhere) I do not believe they are interpreting correctly what he is saying, here:
[quoting Irenaeus]
"And therefore, when in the end the Church shall be suddenly caught up from this, it is said, 'There shall be tribulation such as has not been since the beginning, neither shall be.'(2) For this is the last contest of the righteous, in which, when they overcome they are crowned with incorruption.”
--Irenaeus
--post-tribbers (etc) see him EQUATING the green and the blue [he isn't
]--pre-tribbers (not that he was necessarily "pre-trib / pre-70th-Wk") are pointing out that he is MAKING A DISTINCTION (JUST AS WE "pre-tribbers" are!) BETWEEN "the Church [which is His body]" (all those saved "in this present age") and "the righteous" (who are the ones coming to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture"--that is, IN / DURING / WITHIN the trib years--i.e. "the righteous" in Matt13:43 / Matt25:[31-34]46)
It's like a mental block... when they read the words "the righteous" they automatically think "the Church [which is His body]" and declare, "SEE! Irenaeus said WE WILL BE HERE THEN"... No, he isn't saying that.
At least not here in THIS quote (and several others I've read, of his writings... where he seems to believe there are three levels of "destination" for believers [as in, levels of reward, type of thing]: Heaven, paradise [I think he said], and earth...
)I've seen people do this, for years, when reading this quote. = )
[same thing took place in one of my posts while back, in this very thread... I was talking about "the righteous"/the "BLESSED"/those who come to faith FOLLOWING "our Rapture," IN the TRIB years, but this was seemingly not recognized that I was saying this, by the poster/commenter... as far as I could tell, anyway)]
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No. After SEVEN years... then He will "RETURN" to the earth (VISIBLY [/'openly-manifest' 1Tim6:15]--just like He went up into Heaven, VISIBLY per Acts 1), not "after a thousand years," as you have it to be saying... IOW, pre-tribbers [myself included ] are not saying it, as you have it to be saying. = )
[btw, if I recall rightly, it was Edward Irving (an 'Historicist') who came up with the expression "secret rapture"... He was not a "pre-tribber" from what I understand ]
] are not saying it, as you have it to be saying. = )[btw, if I recall rightly, it was Edward Irving (an 'Historicist') who came up with the expression "secret rapture"... He was not a "pre-tribber" from what I understand
]
The folly of it all is that many many of these so-called pastors actually believe that many views are equally valid and equally true. Which of course is false. The underlying reason being that it's bad for business.
I hate to say this but a lot of these pastors are really in the preaching business (in effect a hireling). It's nothing more than a job and objective Biblical truth is basically irrelevant.....to them. The weren't sent they just up and went.
Jn 10:12
“But a hireling, he who is not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.