Is the false teaching of pre-tribulation rapture, getting the power of "him" out of the way, who restrains the antichrist?
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Ok I got halfway. But I have no idea if your vid is pre wrath,mid tib,or post trib.
One thing is clear. His vid is 100% anti pretrib rapture.
So typical.
Omit pretrib verses while thinking they are destroying our position.
Psssst......the guy's verses do not void other verses.
But yes,leave out verses and PURPOSE ,and pooooof! They think they proved something
One thing is clear. His vid is 100% anti pretrib rapture.
So typical.
Omit pretrib verses while thinking they are destroying our position.
Psssst......the guy's verses do not void other verses.
But yes,leave out verses and PURPOSE ,and pooooof! They think they proved something
A Catholic priest - Manuel de Lacunza wrote a book 'The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty' in 1812- using the pin name Ben Ezra - introducing the pre-trib Rapture idea. Edward Irving, minister of the Church of Scotland, translated and read the book, received the idea in his mind, and was the first to preach what is now termed the rapture, in the mid 1800's. Margaret McDonald, a teenager, and member of Irving's Church attended a meeting of Irving's, said she had a vision that Christ would return in 2 phases, one of which was secret - **birth of the rapture.** Then Along Comes John Darby, he attended a seminar of Irving's, he took the idea and develop it further into a full system known as dispensationalism.
Christianity did not teach that Christ would come and take the church before the rise of the Antichrist - or Christ would return in two phases, one of which would be in secret. 1st Corinthians 15:52 _ in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised Incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (****It clearly says at the last trumpet****)
Revelation 11:15_ and the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever....... When you finish reading this chapter - the wrath of God is come, there was lightning, thunder, earthquakes, hail, and judgment was upon the earth, and the time of the dead. (****when the last trumpet sounds God is here, there is no two separate events, it is one simultaneous action, God takes up his people as he is coming down, to judge****)
2nd Thessalonians 2:3 _ let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. (**** revealed to who? God already knows who he is so it's got to be us - the church will be here when he is revealed because until he is revealed the day of the coming of the Lord will not happen****) 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17_ for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ****( alive and remain from what? The Great Tribulation! The Beast and his Antichrist will slay those who stand for Christ and will not accept his mark. And those two verses refer back to 1st Corinthians 15 and Revelation 11**** ).
Christianity did not teach that Christ would come and take the church before the rise of the Antichrist - or Christ would return in two phases, one of which would be in secret. 1st Corinthians 15:52 _ in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised Incorruptible, and we shall be changed. (****It clearly says at the last trumpet****)
Revelation 11:15_ and the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, the kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and his Christ; and he shall reign forever and ever....... When you finish reading this chapter - the wrath of God is come, there was lightning, thunder, earthquakes, hail, and judgment was upon the earth, and the time of the dead. (****when the last trumpet sounds God is here, there is no two separate events, it is one simultaneous action, God takes up his people as he is coming down, to judge****)
2nd Thessalonians 2:3 _ let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition. (**** revealed to who? God already knows who he is so it's got to be us - the church will be here when he is revealed because until he is revealed the day of the coming of the Lord will not happen****) 1st Thessalonians 4:16-17_ for the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the Trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. ****( alive and remain from what? The Great Tribulation! The Beast and his Antichrist will slay those who stand for Christ and will not accept his mark. And those two verses refer back to 1st Corinthians 15 and Revelation 11**** ).
I haven't read Lacunza's book. The brief summary I read about it did not seem consistent with pre-trib. Nor did the purported version of MacDonald's vision I read. Have you studied these books.
Here is a rather detailed treatment of whether Darby's views emerged from Irving's.
https://www.tms.edu/m/TMS-Spring2016-Article-04.pdf
Here is a rather detailed treatment of whether Darby's views emerged from Irving's.
https://www.tms.edu/m/TMS-Spring2016-Article-04.pdf
Margaret McDonald did not speak of a 2 phase return with one part secret. She promoted that church would be tried by the AC which is not a pre-trib belief.
She wrote:
"The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept."
"I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived. - This is the fiery trial which is to try us."
"It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will he shaken to the very centre. The enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed - but the trial of real faith will be found to honour and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold."
The Church being tried is not a pre-trib doctrine.
She wrote:
"The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept."
"I saw the people of God in an awfully dangerous situation, surrounded by nets and entanglements, about to be tried, and many about to be deceived and fall. Now will THE WICKED be revealed, with all power and signs and lying wonders, so that if it were possible the very elect will be deceived. - This is the fiery trial which is to try us."
"It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus; but Oh it will be a fiery trial. Every soul will he shaken to the very centre. The enemy will try to shake in every thing we have believed - but the trial of real faith will be found to honour and praise and glory. Nothing but what is of God will stand. The stony-ground hearers will be made manifest - the love of many will wax cold."
The Church being tried is not a pre-trib doctrine.
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1Th 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Context is the second coming.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Context is the second coming.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
This is the second coming and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This is the rapture and it happens after the second coming of Christ which only happens once the great tribulation has ended. The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul in verse 17.
1Th 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
Context is the second coming.
1Th 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Context is the second coming.
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
This is the second coming and the resurrection of the dead in Christ.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
This is the rapture and it happens after the second coming of Christ which only happens once the great tribulation has ended. The Greek word for rapture is harpazo and that's the term used by Paul in verse 17.
I research, nor do I rely on one or two findings. All I have found throughout the years about Margaret MacDonald, John Darby and Irving connects them one to the other - as the initiators of the Rapture -pre-trip - Theory. Nor ever found anything she wrote. That's why there are so many different denominations in Christ's Church, different views of interpretation, different beliefs.
@Rebelfortruth , check these out:
[re-posting]
[the two sentences by M.MacDonald which were later removed, demonstrating she believed the rapture would be POST-trib, not PRE-trib
]
[quoting from wikipedia]
"The rise in belief in the pre-tribulation rapture is often wrongly attributed to a 15-year-old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald who was of the first to receive a spiritual baptism under a Pentecostal awakening in Scotland. In 1830, she supposedly had a vision of the end times which describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture that was first published in 1840. It was published again in 1861, but two important passages demonstrating a post-tribulation view were removed to encourage confusion concerning the timing of the rapture. The two removed segments were, "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[83][84]
[...]
"References [...]
"83. ^ Hommel, Jason. "Margaret MacDonald's Vision"
[ https://web.archive.org/web/20030115080400/http://www.bibleprophesy.org/vision.htm ] . Jason Hommel's Bible Prophecy Study on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. Grass Valley, California. Archived from the original on 15 January 2003. Retrieved 14 November 2016. Quotes the account in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861).
"84. ^ Wilkinson, Paul Richard (1 December 2008). "Appendix: Margaret McDonald's Utterances". For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby. Wipf and Stock Publishers. pp. 262–263. ISBN 1556358075. A more complete version, combining the text in Norton's Memoirs and that in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), all cited secondary from Macpherson, The Incredible Coverup."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
[end quoting wikipedia; bold and underline mine; I inserted the link which didn't transfer from the article automatically, but you can find them there in the wiki article itself]
____________
[... I hope ppl only go to that link to see the two sentences which apparently were removed at a later time, but which show her to have described "the Church" going through the tribulation period, not being removed prior to it as the "pre-trib" doctrine shows]
[end quoting old post]
[re-posting]
[the two sentences by M.MacDonald which were later removed, demonstrating she believed the rapture would be POST-trib, not PRE-trib
][quoting from wikipedia]
"The rise in belief in the pre-tribulation rapture is often wrongly attributed to a 15-year-old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald who was of the first to receive a spiritual baptism under a Pentecostal awakening in Scotland. In 1830, she supposedly had a vision of the end times which describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture that was first published in 1840. It was published again in 1861, but two important passages demonstrating a post-tribulation view were removed to encourage confusion concerning the timing of the rapture. The two removed segments were, "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[83][84]
[...]
"References [...]
"83. ^ Hommel, Jason. "Margaret MacDonald's Vision"
[ https://web.archive.org/web/20030115080400/http://www.bibleprophesy.org/vision.htm ] . Jason Hommel's Bible Prophecy Study on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. Grass Valley, California. Archived from the original on 15 January 2003. Retrieved 14 November 2016. Quotes the account in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861).
"84. ^ Wilkinson, Paul Richard (1 December 2008). "Appendix: Margaret McDonald's Utterances". For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby. Wipf and Stock Publishers. pp. 262–263. ISBN 1556358075. A more complete version, combining the text in Norton's Memoirs and that in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), all cited secondary from Macpherson, The Incredible Coverup."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
[end quoting wikipedia; bold and underline mine; I inserted the link which didn't transfer from the article automatically, but you can find them there in the wiki article itself]
____________
[... I hope ppl only go to that link to see the two sentences which apparently were removed at a later time, but which show her to have described "the Church" going through the tribulation period, not being removed prior to it as the "pre-trib" doctrine shows]
[end quoting old post]
@Rebelfortruth , check these out:
[re-posting]
[the two sentences by M.MacDonald which were later removed, demonstrating she believed the rapture would be POST-trib, not PRE-trib ]
[quoting from wikipedia]
"The rise in belief in the pre-tribulation rapture is often wrongly attributed to a 15-year-old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald who was of the first to receive a spiritual baptism under a Pentecostal awakening in Scotland. In 1830, she supposedly had a vision of the end times which describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture that was first published in 1840. It was published again in 1861, but two important passages demonstrating a post-tribulation view were removed to encourage confusion concerning the timing of the rapture. The two removed segments were, "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[83][84]
[...]
"References [...]
"83. ^ Hommel, Jason. "Margaret MacDonald's Vision"
[ https://web.archive.org/web/20030115080400/http://www.bibleprophesy.org/vision.htm ] . Jason Hommel's Bible Prophecy Study on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. Grass Valley, California. Archived from the original on 15 January 2003. Retrieved 14 November 2016. Quotes the account in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861).
"84. ^ Wilkinson, Paul Richard (1 December 2008). "Appendix: Margaret McDonald's Utterances". For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby. Wipf and Stock Publishers. pp. 262–263. ISBN 1556358075. A more complete version, combining the text in Norton's Memoirs and that in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), all cited secondary from Macpherson, The Incredible Coverup."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
[end quoting wikipedia; bold and underline mine; I inserted the link which didn't transfer from the article automatically, but you can find them there in the wiki article itself]
____________
[... I hope ppl only go to that link to see the two sentences which apparently were removed at a later time, but which show her to have described "the Church" going through the tribulation period, not being removed prior to it as the "pre-trib" doctrine shows]
[end quoting old post]
[re-posting]
[the two sentences by M.MacDonald which were later removed, demonstrating she believed the rapture would be POST-trib, not PRE-trib
][quoting from wikipedia]
"The rise in belief in the pre-tribulation rapture is often wrongly attributed to a 15-year-old Scottish-Irish girl named Margaret McDonald who was of the first to receive a spiritual baptism under a Pentecostal awakening in Scotland. In 1830, she supposedly had a vision of the end times which describes a post-tribulation view of the rapture that was first published in 1840. It was published again in 1861, but two important passages demonstrating a post-tribulation view were removed to encourage confusion concerning the timing of the rapture. The two removed segments were, "This is the fiery trial which is to try us. - It will be for the purging and purifying of the real members of the body of Jesus" and "The trial of the Church is from Antichrist. It is by being filled with the Spirit that we shall be kept".[83][84]
[...]
"References [...]
"83. ^ Hommel, Jason. "Margaret MacDonald's Vision"
[ https://web.archive.org/web/20030115080400/http://www.bibleprophesy.org/vision.htm ] . Jason Hommel's Bible Prophecy Study on the Pre Tribulation Rapture. Grass Valley, California. Archived from the original on 15 January 2003. Retrieved 14 November 2016. Quotes the account in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861).
"84. ^ Wilkinson, Paul Richard (1 December 2008). "Appendix: Margaret McDonald's Utterances". For Zion's Sake: Christian Zionism and the Role of John Nelson Darby. Wipf and Stock Publishers. pp. 262–263. ISBN 1556358075. A more complete version, combining the text in Norton's Memoirs and that in The Restoration of Apostles and Prophets In the Catholic Apostolic Church (1861), all cited secondary from Macpherson, The Incredible Coverup."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture
[end quoting wikipedia; bold and underline mine; I inserted the link which didn't transfer from the article automatically, but you can find them there in the wiki article itself]
____________
[... I hope ppl only go to that link to see the two sentences which apparently were removed at a later time, but which show her to have described "the Church" going through the tribulation period, not being removed prior to it as the "pre-trib" doctrine shows]
[end quoting old post]