Is having faith/belief obeying?
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Good list of Scriptures!
I've added the highlight to the last clause.
In Rom10:16, 10:16b explains 10:16a.
"our report" is the same as "the gospel" - report actually means the thing they heard from us (what they heard is the gospel).
report = gospel and obeyed = believed.
Paul is speaking in parallelism which is common in Hebrew writing. Paul is using obeyed and believed interchangeably.
Similar parallelism of belif and obedience is found in Heb3.
I've added the highlight to the last clause.
In Rom10:16, 10:16b explains 10:16a.
"our report" is the same as "the gospel" - report actually means the thing they heard from us (what they heard is the gospel).
report = gospel and obeyed = believed.
Paul is speaking in parallelism which is common in Hebrew writing. Paul is using obeyed and believed interchangeably.
Similar parallelism of belif and obedience is found in Heb3.
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Here's another defining source:
Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)
[BDAG] ἀπειθέω (apeithō)
• ἀπειθέω (opp. πείθομαι; s. ἀπείθεια) impf. ἠπείθουν; 1 aor. ἠπείθησα (for ἀπιθέω [Hom.] since Aeschyl., Pla.+) disobey, be disobedient (cp. PYadin 24a, 10 [restored] of refusal); in our lit. disobedience is always toward God, God’s ordinances, or revelation (like Eur., Or. 31; Pla., Leg. 741d; Lucian, Dial. Deor. 8, 1; SIG 736, 40 [92 BC] τὸν δὲ ἀπειθοῦντα ἢ ἀπρεπῶς ἀναστρεφόμενον εἰς τὸ θεῖον μαστιγούντω οἱ ἱεροί; Dt 1:26; 9:23; Josh 5:6; Is 36:5; 63:10; Bar 1:18f). W. dat. of pers. (Num 14:43 κυρίω) τῷ θεῷ (Diod. S. 5, 74, 4 ἀ. τοῖς θεοῖς; Hierocles 24, 473 τῷ θεῷ; Jos., Ant. 9, 249) Ro 11:30, cp. Pol 2:1. τῷ υἱῷ J 3:36.—W. dat. of thing (Diod. S. 5, 71, 5 τοῖς νόμοις) τῇ ἀληθείᾳ Ro 2:8 (Theoph. Ant. 1, 14 p. 92, 5). τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ 1 Pt 4:17. τῷ λόγῳ 2:8; 3:1. τοῖς εἰρημένοις 1 Cl 59:1. τοῖς ἐμοῖς ἐλέγχοις 57:4 (Pr 1:25).—Abs. (Dicaearchus fgm. 23 [Athen. 13 p. 603b] ἀπειθήσας=disobedient) of members of a synagogue at Corinth Ac 19:9. Of a part of Israel Ro 11:31. Of people of Judea 15:31. οἱ ἀπειθήσαντες Ἰουδαῖοι the disobedient (but see below, end) Judeans Ac 14:2. λαὸς ἀπειθῶν Ro 10:21; B 12:4 (both Is 65:2). οἱ ἀπειθοῦντες IMg 8:2; 1 Cl 58:1. Of gentiles οἱ ἀπειθήσαντες Hb 11:31.—Gener. 3:18; 1 Pt 3:20. In a number of pass. NRSV and REB, among others, with less probability render ἀ. ‘disbelieve’ or an equivalent.—DELG s.v. πείθομαι. M-M. TW.
Bauer-Danker, Greek-English Lexicon of the NT (BDAG)
[BDAG] ἀπειθέω (apeithō)
• ἀπειθέω (opp. πείθομαι; s. ἀπείθεια) impf. ἠπείθουν; 1 aor. ἠπείθησα (for ἀπιθέω [Hom.] since Aeschyl., Pla.+) disobey, be disobedient (cp. PYadin 24a, 10 [restored] of refusal); in our lit. disobedience is always toward God, God’s ordinances, or revelation (like Eur., Or. 31; Pla., Leg. 741d; Lucian, Dial. Deor. 8, 1; SIG 736, 40 [92 BC] τὸν δὲ ἀπειθοῦντα ἢ ἀπρεπῶς ἀναστρεφόμενον εἰς τὸ θεῖον μαστιγούντω οἱ ἱεροί; Dt 1:26; 9:23; Josh 5:6; Is 36:5; 63:10; Bar 1:18f). W. dat. of pers. (Num 14:43 κυρίω) τῷ θεῷ (Diod. S. 5, 74, 4 ἀ. τοῖς θεοῖς; Hierocles 24, 473 τῷ θεῷ; Jos., Ant. 9, 249) Ro 11:30, cp. Pol 2:1. τῷ υἱῷ J 3:36.—W. dat. of thing (Diod. S. 5, 71, 5 τοῖς νόμοις) τῇ ἀληθείᾳ Ro 2:8 (Theoph. Ant. 1, 14 p. 92, 5). τῷ εὐαγγελίῳ 1 Pt 4:17. τῷ λόγῳ 2:8; 3:1. τοῖς εἰρημένοις 1 Cl 59:1. τοῖς ἐμοῖς ἐλέγχοις 57:4 (Pr 1:25).—Abs. (Dicaearchus fgm. 23 [Athen. 13 p. 603b] ἀπειθήσας=disobedient) of members of a synagogue at Corinth Ac 19:9. Of a part of Israel Ro 11:31. Of people of Judea 15:31. οἱ ἀπειθήσαντες Ἰουδαῖοι the disobedient (but see below, end) Judeans Ac 14:2. λαὸς ἀπειθῶν Ro 10:21; B 12:4 (both Is 65:2). οἱ ἀπειθοῦντες IMg 8:2; 1 Cl 58:1. Of gentiles οἱ ἀπειθήσαντες Hb 11:31.—Gener. 3:18; 1 Pt 3:20. In a number of pass. NRSV and REB, among others, with less probability render ἀ. ‘disbelieve’ or an equivalent.—DELG s.v. πείθομαι. M-M. TW.
Absolutely, he did not listen to no-one else but Father, Daddy, PaPa, he knew what is in the flesh. he came here to earth to reconcile us all first as forgiven from Father, as if no one ever sinned (Col 1:21-23). That willing one time death, reconciled us all as forgiven first.
In order to give new life in his risen Life to us that believe Daddy, Father, PaPa and we walk new no more under Law, why no more under Law? Just read all of the first testament, and see failure after failure after failure again and again, No one could ever please Father, but Son who did that once for us all to get new life installed from Daddy in us, in the risen Life of Christ.
That proves no flesh can please God to me anyways. And when he went to that cross willing to die, to reconcile us all, that is done once for all, to believe God and say thank you to God and ask how to walk new of the new self Father gives us to be new, able to now love all, not a few as did before being made new. To not take any credit in the self ever again in doing it right or wrong ever again. Willing is the key that opens the treasure chest reserve in Heaven for us all to come to see, that begins on the first day anyone chooses belief to God eventually come to see and continue in belief or not, these get matured by God Father in the risen Son to eat Meat, and not only on milk anymore, To not needing milk anymore.
This is the greatest Love story from God to us, given in the Bible we all read presently, at least to me
A Gigantic love letter from God to the people he created in the first Adam that failed. Today we have the second Adam a life giving spirit, that is risen and is proof enough to me to not quit belief in what is now done for us all. Concerned over others, I am not concerned over others any longer as was when I was trying to do the work, no more thanks
I trust you will get truth out of this as I am floored over the words pouring out of my mouth
Thanks for asking brother in risen Son
In order to give new life in his risen Life to us that believe Daddy, Father, PaPa and we walk new no more under Law, why no more under Law? Just read all of the first testament, and see failure after failure after failure again and again, No one could ever please Father, but Son who did that once for us all to get new life installed from Daddy in us, in the risen Life of Christ.
That proves no flesh can please God to me anyways. And when he went to that cross willing to die, to reconcile us all, that is done once for all, to believe God and say thank you to God and ask how to walk new of the new self Father gives us to be new, able to now love all, not a few as did before being made new. To not take any credit in the self ever again in doing it right or wrong ever again. Willing is the key that opens the treasure chest reserve in Heaven for us all to come to see, that begins on the first day anyone chooses belief to God eventually come to see and continue in belief or not, these get matured by God Father in the risen Son to eat Meat, and not only on milk anymore, To not needing milk anymore.
This is the greatest Love story from God to us, given in the Bible we all read presently, at least to me
A Gigantic love letter from God to the people he created in the first Adam that failed. Today we have the second Adam a life giving spirit, that is risen and is proof enough to me to not quit belief in what is now done for us all. Concerned over others, I am not concerned over others any longer as was when I was trying to do the work, no more thanks
I trust you will get truth out of this as I am floored over the words pouring out of my mouth
Thanks for asking brother in risen Son
Belief is the motivation and foundation for obedience
you hear Gods direction first then you hear the resulting promise if you obey if you believe what he says the direction and promise the action is inherent in the belief . So for instance
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
There’s an instruction and then a promise if the person obeys.
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:
condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:
forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Matthew 7:1-2
If we don’t believe the principles he’s teaching like that the epistles won’t make sense either
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Galatians 6:7-9 KJV
“And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?”
Romans 2:3-4
But if we refuse to believe any of it we’ll never be change by any of it
you hear Gods direction first then you hear the resulting promise if you obey if you believe what he says the direction and promise the action is inherent in the belief . So for instance
“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
Matthew 6:14-15 KJV
There’s an instruction and then a promise if the person obeys.
“Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:
condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:
forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:
give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom.
For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
Luke 6:36-38 KJV
“Judge not, that ye be not judged. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.”
Matthew 7:1-2
If we don’t believe the principles he’s teaching like that the epistles won’t make sense either
“Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption;
but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”
Galatians 6:7-9 KJV
“And thinkest thou this, O man, that judgest them which do such things, and doest the same, that thou shalt escape the judgment of God? Or despisest thou the riches of his goodness and forbearance and longsuffering; not knowing that the goodness of God leadeth thee to repentance?”
Romans 2:3-4
But if we refuse to believe any of it we’ll never be change by any of it
We are believing in what Jesus has done for us.
Which has nothing to do with anything that we can accomplish.
That is why we are saved by grace and that is not from us.
You were saved while you were an enemy of Christ.
The gift of salvation always remains a gift given to us by the grace of Jesus.
We cannot generate anything within ourselves that can make us worthy of salvation.
Which has nothing to do with anything that we can accomplish.
That is why we are saved by grace and that is not from us.
You were saved while you were an enemy of Christ.
The gift of salvation always remains a gift given to us by the grace of Jesus.
We cannot generate anything within ourselves that can make us worthy of salvation.
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Sounds complicated. Allow me to simplify. Faith is believing and multiple acts of obedience which "follow" and are produced out of faith are works and we are saved through faith, not works. (Ephesians 2:8,9) Consistent acts of obedience are a manifestation of faith just as consistent acts of disobedience are a manifestation of unbelief.
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This type of confusion often culminates in salvation by works. In regard to Romans 10:16, we obey the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. Not to be confused with multiple acts of obedience/works which "follow" believing the gospel.
In regard to Hebrews 3, disobedience was a manifestation of their unbelief. Hebrews 3:8-10 says, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of genuine believers.
Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
In regard to Hebrews 3, disobedience was a manifestation of their unbelief. Hebrews 3:8-10 says, Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion, in the day of trial in the wilderness where your fathers tested Me, tried Me, And saw My works forty years. Therefore I was angry with that generation, And said, 'They always go astray in their heart, And they have not known My ways.' Not descriptive of genuine believers.
Jude 1:5 - Though you already know all this, I want to remind you that the Lord at one time delivered his people out of Egypt, but later destroyed those who did not believe.
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That is a very good post, homwardbound.
I am not sure how folk would react to your statement.
"This is the greatest Love story from God to us"
God at His core is love and that is difficult to comprehend.
That is agape love which is absolutely absent in human history.
Agape love was revealed only in the gospel of Jesus Christ to humanity.
Lord, your love is staggering and far beyond our ability to understand.
It's not God's justice at play but His profound love for you and I.
No one fully understands the love of God which was so powerfully displayed in Christ Jesus.
I am not sure how folk would react to your statement.
"This is the greatest Love story from God to us"
God at His core is love and that is difficult to comprehend.
That is agape love which is absolutely absent in human history.
Agape love was revealed only in the gospel of Jesus Christ to humanity.
Lord, your love is staggering and far beyond our ability to understand.
It's not God's justice at play but His profound love for you and I.
No one fully understands the love of God which was so powerfully displayed in Christ Jesus.
As you look to the cross of Christ, not only do you find hope, love, and forgiveness, but we find Jesus, who was God in the flesh (1 Tim. 3:16, John 1:1, 14) who was not indifferent to us in that He never experienced pain, suffering, sorrows, betrayal, abandonment, or sadness (Isaiah 53:3-4, Luke 24:46, Matt. 26:14-16, Matt. 27:3-4, John 6:66, Mark 14:50, John 11:35). Even in the midst of wickedness, sorrow, and pain that He endured, He loves us.
Through it all, there is His love that He poured out for us through His death, that we can be redeemed, forgiven, reconciled, restored, atoned, saved, etc etc.
He loved us enough to go through all of that so we could receive the remission of sins and eternal life (Mt. 26:28; Acts 2:38; Jn. 3:16). That is true love. At the cross of Christ..mercy, grace and salvation is found (Titus 3:4-6; 1 Cor. 1:18). Instead of letting us die in our sins, He gave us a way to avoid that and had mercy on us. Because Jesus knew and predicted He would be killed (Mt. 16:21, 20:17-18, 26:2) and because He voluntarily gave His life (Mt. 26:52-53; Jn. 10:17-18, 15:13; Titus 2:14) for those who did not deserve it, His death on the cross is seen as the pinnacle of grace. It extends both horizontally—from us to one another—and vertically—from God to us.
The cross continues to be the reminding source of how God saved us, not because of any good things we have done, not because we were good enough to be saved, but rather..by His mercy (Titus 3:4-7, 1 Cor. 1:18)
The cross also serves as a reminder that despite us being under grace, that does not mean we are to continue in sin (Rom. 6:1). When we were baptized we put off the old man, raised to walk in newness of life, that we should no longer be slaves of sin (Rom. 6:3, 6)
The cross is also a reminder of just because we are redeemed by His precious and holy blood by His sacrifice upon obedience to His gospel, we must also continue to freely commit ourself to Him in submissive obedience.
At the cross, the honest and noble heart will be pricked at knowing what Christ done, will be pricked and desire forgiveness from their sins by seeking His grace and mercy (Acts 2:37-38). Seek the Lord for forgiveness and mercy. Only those who have callused hearts won’t be moved by the cross (1 Cor. 1:18). Jesus did this out of love, so you would look to Him and be moved with repentant sorrow. He did this so you would seek his mercy and grace. He did this so you could experience a fountain of forgiveness with all its spiritual blessings being poured out on you, washing your sins away (Eph. 1:3; Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 5:5; Titus 3:6).
God reached down toward us and provided us with a means of salvation when we didn’t deserve it. All this was possible through His Son, who is also God. None of this is of ourselves. There’s no amount of work we could do to negate the cross, the gospel etc etc.
It’s what took place at the cross and the results of it, (which would include the resurrection) that have these effects.
God’s mercy and grace was abundantly poured out at the cross.
Through it all, there is His love that He poured out for us through His death, that we can be redeemed, forgiven, reconciled, restored, atoned, saved, etc etc.
He loved us enough to go through all of that so we could receive the remission of sins and eternal life (Mt. 26:28; Acts 2:38; Jn. 3:16). That is true love. At the cross of Christ..mercy, grace and salvation is found (Titus 3:4-6; 1 Cor. 1:18). Instead of letting us die in our sins, He gave us a way to avoid that and had mercy on us. Because Jesus knew and predicted He would be killed (Mt. 16:21, 20:17-18, 26:2) and because He voluntarily gave His life (Mt. 26:52-53; Jn. 10:17-18, 15:13; Titus 2:14) for those who did not deserve it, His death on the cross is seen as the pinnacle of grace. It extends both horizontally—from us to one another—and vertically—from God to us.
The cross continues to be the reminding source of how God saved us, not because of any good things we have done, not because we were good enough to be saved, but rather..by His mercy (Titus 3:4-7, 1 Cor. 1:18)
The cross also serves as a reminder that despite us being under grace, that does not mean we are to continue in sin (Rom. 6:1). When we were baptized we put off the old man, raised to walk in newness of life, that we should no longer be slaves of sin (Rom. 6:3, 6)
The cross is also a reminder of just because we are redeemed by His precious and holy blood by His sacrifice upon obedience to His gospel, we must also continue to freely commit ourself to Him in submissive obedience.
At the cross, the honest and noble heart will be pricked at knowing what Christ done, will be pricked and desire forgiveness from their sins by seeking His grace and mercy (Acts 2:37-38). Seek the Lord for forgiveness and mercy. Only those who have callused hearts won’t be moved by the cross (1 Cor. 1:18). Jesus did this out of love, so you would look to Him and be moved with repentant sorrow. He did this so you would seek his mercy and grace. He did this so you could experience a fountain of forgiveness with all its spiritual blessings being poured out on you, washing your sins away (Eph. 1:3; Acts 2:38, 22:16; Rom. 5:5; Titus 3:6).
God reached down toward us and provided us with a means of salvation when we didn’t deserve it. All this was possible through His Son, who is also God. None of this is of ourselves. There’s no amount of work we could do to negate the cross, the gospel etc etc.
It’s what took place at the cross and the results of it, (which would include the resurrection) that have these effects.
God’s mercy and grace was abundantly poured out at the cross.
Confused question!!!
FAITH in order to be BIBLICAL FAITH (since "faith" in normal use has no meaning) there must be TWO ATTRIBUTES:
SUBSTANCE, and EVIDENCE. "Belief (intellectual assent) has NEITHER - it has no "substance", and it's not an "Evidence" of anything.
Biblical FAITH, on the other hand has substance - as demonstrated by Abraham: Abdaham and Issac went up the mountain where Abraham was going to KILL ISSAC as a blood offering. Hopwever he told his people, that he and issac would go up to saxcrifice AND THEY WOULD RETURN - which would obviously be impossible. BUT Abraham had God's WORD that Ussac would be the progenitor of a great nation, which would be impossible if he were killed that day. Obviously, then to Abraham, God had something in mind that Abraham wasn't aware of - yet. He had the SUBSTANCE of God's Promise, and that was his EVIDENCE that Issac wouls live on - IN SPITE of being killed on the alter that he helped his father build. ISSAC, who wasn't a little boy at the time could have REFUSED to be sacrificed, and overpowered his father when he wound up on the alter, ready to die, so he also possessed the SUBSTANCE of God's promise that he would father a mighty nation.
Bottom line: "Works / Obedience" don't "Create FAITH", but are only the RESULT of Biblical FAITH. which is the meaning behind James 2:18.
FAITH in order to be BIBLICAL FAITH (since "faith" in normal use has no meaning) there must be TWO ATTRIBUTES:
SUBSTANCE, and EVIDENCE. "Belief (intellectual assent) has NEITHER - it has no "substance", and it's not an "Evidence" of anything.
Biblical FAITH, on the other hand has substance - as demonstrated by Abraham: Abdaham and Issac went up the mountain where Abraham was going to KILL ISSAC as a blood offering. Hopwever he told his people, that he and issac would go up to saxcrifice AND THEY WOULD RETURN - which would obviously be impossible. BUT Abraham had God's WORD that Ussac would be the progenitor of a great nation, which would be impossible if he were killed that day. Obviously, then to Abraham, God had something in mind that Abraham wasn't aware of - yet. He had the SUBSTANCE of God's Promise, and that was his EVIDENCE that Issac wouls live on - IN SPITE of being killed on the alter that he helped his father build. ISSAC, who wasn't a little boy at the time could have REFUSED to be sacrificed, and overpowered his father when he wound up on the alter, ready to die, so he also possessed the SUBSTANCE of God's promise that he would father a mighty nation.
Bottom line: "Works / Obedience" don't "Create FAITH", but are only the RESULT of Biblical FAITH. which is the meaning behind James 2:18.
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Faith is a noun that is put into action, known as belief, which is a verb. If one has faith, it will produce an action that is a work unto God—not for salvation, but because one is saved, they now obey God by doing what He says. Those who were dead in sin could not obey until they were saved and made alive.
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I have been trying to add my obedience to the reconciliation that Jesus performed for us.
Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more,
having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
2 Corinthians 5:18
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us
the ministry of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:20
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us;
we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Ephesians 2:16
And might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
Colossians 1:20
And through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross;
through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Colossians 1:22
Yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him
holy and blameless and beyond reproach.
How does my obedience fit into that reconciliation?
1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
Romans 5:10
For if while we were enemies we were reconciled to God through the death of His Son, much more,
having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
2 Corinthians 5:18
Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us
the ministry of reconciliation.
2 Corinthians 5:20
Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us;
we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.
Ephesians 2:16
And might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.
Colossians 1:20
And through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross;
through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.
Colossians 1:22
Yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him
holy and blameless and beyond reproach.
How does my obedience fit into that reconciliation?
1 Corinthians 2:2
For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified.
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