Is Calvinism the truth?

[Pilgrimshope]

God wants willing Followers. until i wanted to be with Him, i was of no use to further His Kingdom.

yes but , he was patient with you he was looking to what you were becoming later looking to what he was going to do inside you in changing your Will

remember brother God sees the end result before it comes he looks into darkness and calls for light to shine

you were always finished product a finished product in his eyes because he knows what he’s doing within our heats before we’re perfect he knows our end whether it’s good or bad whether we’re genuine or frauds

it is Gods amazing forebearance d patients towards us that allows for this to take its course and redeem us

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your correct God wants and needs willing people to serve his Will bekng free not slaves but freely choosing to return his love

while you were young and know now you were not a productive part of his kingdom , where you can really start to know him better dear brother is in the fact that when you were far away from repentance and obedience before you produced any fruit before you even knew the name Jesus , God already loved you for you d already was looking at the end result of Christs work in you to. Ring us each to repentance from willingness to serve sin, and conversion to a willingness and desire to please God to actually do and start doing what he wants us to do in this world

to shine a light in his honor and name that just one person might see it shining and turn also to thier savior and become a light themselves shining for others in this darkness of the world we see

when you first heard about Jesus d it was true in your heart and mind You then came into grace ,a t that time it was forebearance you needed , patience and comfort you needed the lords embrace and assurance that your belief would lead you home

We are young in faith and we have hope

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s all we know and it’s faith We know we are loved embraced and accepted we’re going to be saved

but we fro up in faith and become aware that there’s much for us to do in this world on the lords behalf and much we need to rod ourselves of in this world in order to be a vessel of honor we need to purge ourselves from the old and let the lord craft us into the new

it’s his patience and love for us when we aren’t worthy when we don’t deserve it that’s what can actually save us and his forebearance as we hear more of the gospel his patience and mercy leads us to grow up and change as we abide his word more and more and we arrive at a place that sounds like exhortation and instruction of what we’re meant to stop doing d what we’re acrsully called to do

because it relies on hearing the gospel and believing it’s faith that actually changes us from a willful sinner to a willing servant of the lord in the world hoping that light may reach someone in Darkness and maybe we might sow a holy fire in the world , in the church

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

I believe that Jesus gave me eyes to see and ears to hear. We respond to the outward call of the Gospel (word) and the inward working of the Holy Spirit.

I once was blind but now I see.. I didn't will my blindness away, for I could not. Christ layed his healing hand on my ear and a healing balm to my eyes - his word (gospel) and the inward work of the Spirit on my wretched and wicked heart.

Acts 2:38 - 39; romans 8:28-30.

When I was blind I freely made choices from my will, when I could see I still make choices freely from my will.

The issue is not that we can or cannot make free choices.. We all do whether saved or unsaved.

It is whether or not the wicked evil sinner..( And let's not be woke here, all persons not saved are evil, and wicked.. as scripture tells.. Only continually evil in their hearts) can make a moral choice pleasing to God. And I would agree with the reformed view that man is morally unable.

So we don't stop making choices freely from our nature but that our nature is changed and therefore able to make choices that are morally pleasing to God.

We need to be carefull here because we hear all the time 'but people. Make good moral choice daily', yes they may be morally good, but it's not from a heart wanting to please God. It usually stems from a guilty conscience, pride or a self esteem builder.

So that's the real difference when it comes to 'free will'. It's not automous. As it is enslaved to sin, a major theme in scripture. Anyhow.. Coffee time here ☕☕



An extremely important point and if we are honest with ourselves we will see it -

We come to Christ after hearing the gospel and or the Holy Spirit bringing the good news to life in us.. That the word and spirit working in tandem renewing that heart.... We respond by Faith.

And it may not be instant, God could be working on you for a long time or a short time.. But at some point.. We will believe and repent.

but doesn't it still come down to what you eventually could see you chose to Submit?

how can you submit without allowing it within your will?

 

[Hazelelponi]

Until a few years ago, I hadn't encountered Calvinism, instinctively thinking it was a form of operation, like methodism, rather than a belief system. To me, it seems wrong and counter-intuitive, but sometimes, if I'm bombarded with assertions over and over again, I tend to start to wonder - "Am I missing something?" "Is there something in this?".
Would anyone like to give his/ her (preferably biblically-based) beliefs on this subject, as I'd like to learn the truth on this subject?

What is called Calvinism is just reformed theology. While Calvin is respected as a teacher in his time, his teachings aren't special, or even specific to the theology.

Even if everything taught or said by Calvin was wiped from historical record today what is known (rather mockingly I might add) as Calvinism would still exist as it is today because Calvin isn't where we get our beliefs from, it's beliefs based directly on Scripture which is also backed up by the Early Church Father's (otherwise known as ECF).

In short, reformed theology is Christianity. It's Lutheran, it's Presbyterian it's reformed Baptist - it's just our Christian faith.

If you want to know more about it from Scripture, buy Wayne Grudems Systematic theology (It's written for both students as well as layman), listen to Pastor's like Voddie Baucham preach - he's a Presbyterian pastor (aka "Calvinist")

To learn more, the initiative must be your own. No one can spell it out in a few posts.

 

[phil36]

but doesn't it still come down to what you eventually could see you chose to Submit?

how can you submit without allowing it within your will?

Who can see.. But only those with eyes to see.

Regarding submitting I think i answered that above.

As the outward call of the gospel and inward work of the spirit works to renew your heart you will have your eyes opened. Then you 'will' freely choose. What changes is your heart so that you are morally able to choose the good.. Thats how you can freely choose faith.. Before hand hand you were blind to it and refused it.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Paul say you were a slave to sin, in bondage to the elementary spirits of the universe ... this is no way to describe freewill.

a person born and because of the actions of Adam and Eve are not born possessed by evil. they are born in bondage due to the condition Adam and Eve were in and then became. there are billions of Sinners and they are not possessed, but of Sin because they were born that way to the sinful condition. so you still can have Free Will in that condition.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Who can see.. But only those with eyes to see.

Regarding submitting I think i answered that above.

As the outward call of the gospel and inward work of the spirit works to renew your heart you will have your eyes opened. Then you 'will' freely choose. What changes is your heart so that you are morally able to choose the good.. Thats how you can freely choose faith.. Before hand hand you were blind to it and refused it.

Agreed, you will, as you have put it [[Then you 'will' freely choose.]]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Paul say you were a slave to sin, in bondage to the elementary spirits of the universe ... this is no way to describe freewill.

Without God we's like fishes on the river bank flapping around.

Once we get back into the river we are FREE ...free to be what God created us to be.

yes brother Paul’s saying you used to be a slave to sin , but Paul’s explaining now you are free but don’t use your freedom to serve sin , use your freedom to serve God

Paul’s always talking about the old man before Christ , and the new whos born again in Christ

one was a slave to sin the other knows the truth and is made free we have to let go of the slave and embrace the freedom and chi live man is made for Adam had freedom and choice also but Satan enslaved them in sin and death by corrupting thier mind and heart

Jesus and the gospel came to set us free of that slavery and dominion of Satan over man. Your speaking of the sinner he’s talking about the transformation of our Will that sets us free in the light

Consider these to passages from Jesus and paul his witness

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

now paul speaking to those who heard it Notice how Informative it is if we can accept it I’m going to make bold all the instructions that are giving the believer a choice if they accept what’s there

“Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Neither yield ye your members as instruments of unrighteousness unto sin:

but yield yourselves unto God, as those that are alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness unto God.

For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace. What then? shall we sin, because we are not under the law, but under grace? God forbid.

Know ye not, that to whom ye yield yourselves servants to obey, his servants ye are to whom ye obey; whether of sin unto death, or of obedience unto righteousness? ( an informed choice presented )

But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin,

but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you. Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death.

But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:12-18, 20-22‬

we were made free by Jesus , given a choice by Jesus to repent , believe and be free and me to choose salvation rather than damnation. When we stand before the lord in judgement according to our deeds we’re not going to be able to say “ lord I was enslaved by satan I had no choice in the things I did wrong the devil made me do it “

Or even worse “ lord every sin I ever did was because you gave me no choice you made me do it “

we’re going to have to give our own account of what we’ve done because en we hear the truth that’s exactly wha ya giving us the choice to be saved or choose the world instead

as we hear more of the gospel it’s creating freedom from sins mastery over mankind it’s offering us the truth that can do this it’s actually why we preach and share the gospel

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭

we don’t have to be slaves to sin anymore Jesus is offering us freedom and righteousness to follow after and let him redeem us

 

[phil36]

Agreed, you will, as you have put it [[Then you 'will' freely choose.]]

Until your will has been released from captivity, your will always be in bondage to sin. Only the Holy Spirit can break those bonds.. That is as stated early by the outward call and Inward working of the Spirit. Then you will, be able to come to faith (freely) ..

From slaves to sin to slaves of Christ.. From bondage to freedom, from captivity to liberty.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

yes but , he was patient with you he was looking to what you were becoming later looking to what he was going to do inside you in changing your Will

remember brother God sees the end result before it comes he looks into darkness and calls for light to shine

you were always finished product a finished product in his eyes because he knows what he’s doing within our heats before we’re perfect he knows our end whether it’s good or bad whether we’re genuine or frauds

it is Gods amazing forebearance d patients towards us that allows for this to take its course and redeem us

“For it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

your correct God wants and needs willing people to serve his Will bekng free not slaves but freely choosing to return his love

while you were young and know now you were not a productive part of his kingdom , where you can really start to know him better dear brother is in the fact that when you were far away from repentance and obedience before you produced any fruit before you even knew the name Jesus , God already loved you for you d already was looking at the end result of Christs work in you to. Ring us each to repentance from willingness to serve sin, and conversion to a willingness and desire to please God to actually do and start doing what he wants us to do in this world

to shine a light in his honor and name that just one person might see it shining and turn also to thier savior and become a light themselves shining for others in this darkness of the world we see

when you first heard about Jesus d it was true in your heart and mind You then came into grace ,a t that time it was forebearance you needed , patience and comfort you needed the lords embrace and assurance that your belief would lead you home

We are young in faith and we have hope

“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s all we know and it’s faith We know we are loved embraced and accepted we’re going to be saved

but we fro up in faith and become aware that there’s much for us to do in this world on the lords behalf and much we need to rod ourselves of in this world in order to be a vessel of honor we need to purge ourselves from the old and let the lord craft us into the new

it’s his patience and love for us when we aren’t worthy when we don’t deserve it that’s what can actually save us and his forebearance as we hear more of the gospel his patience and mercy leads us to grow up and change as we abide his word more and more and we arrive at a place that sounds like exhortation and instruction of what we’re meant to stop doing d what we’re acrsully called to do

because it relies on hearing the gospel and believing it’s faith that actually changes us from a willful sinner to a willing servant of the lord in the world hoping that light may reach someone in Darkness and maybe we might sow a holy fire in the world , in the church

AMEN!

knowing how long and patiently God waited for me has always been impactful on both my mind and my Calling. i have a good buddy who knew how evil and rotten i was and said jokingly, you must going to be an End Time Preacher. i asked why. he would laugh and say, because you are molded perfectly for what is going to happen and you won't care like other Preachers and just be Blunt and Honest even if it costs your freedom.

now, that has not happened, but as i observe how Preachers are today and the things they don't preach so they won't end up in jail or losing their paying congregation, i can see what he was telling me.

maybe he is correct. time will tell.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Until your will has been released from captivity, your will always be in bondage to sin. Only the Holy Spirit can break those bonds.. That is as stated early by the outward call and Inward working of the Spirit. Then you will, be able to come to faith (freely) ..

From slaves to sin to slaves of Christ.. From bondage to freedom, from captivity to liberty.

but...............................once God opens our eyes and we understand and desire to "submit" to Him, there are many who have Rejected Him. so, it's more than just having our eyes opened.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

a person born and because of the actions of Adam and Eve are not born possessed by evil. they are born in bondage due to the condition Adam and Eve were in and then became. there are billions of Sinners and they are not possessed, but of Sin because they were born that way to the sinful condition. so you still can have Free Will in that condition.

yeah sinners actually are slaves to Satan it’s the gospel that gives us a choice see because Mankind rejected Gods glory and calling in the beginning and chose satans word instead and it’s curse God handed man over to his own Will which had been enslaved by satans evil Will

a lie corrupted our Will and caused slavery to sin

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we share the gospel in order to change the sinners corrupted trapped mind , into the mind of Jesus expressed in the gospel who is free from Slavery to sin

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

adam was given freedom and a choice it came when God spoke this

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and Satan whispered this afterwards

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-6‬ ‭

man now has good and evil before them life and death they can eat of the tree of life and all e trees in Eden and remain with God in his Will or tbey can let satans snare lead them to transgression and certain death.

When adam sinned this happened

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12, 19‬

he had sold mankknd ( his offspring ) into servitude to sin and death because God warned him and he followed satans lie instead in the end our choice is always “God said this it’s true “ even if it’s a warning like “ don’t eat the fruit you will surely die if you do “ It’s always true

and Satan always offers an alternative truth to what Jesus has stated is truth the choice is to believe what God said or what e world has to say which is influenced by Satan.

for a long time man was bound to sin even Moses killed a man abrahan lied Noah got drunk d pawed out naked , David committed adultery and had a man killed to cover it up paul tried to destroy the church ect

all those righteous men in Christ the best they could do was still serve satans Will a lie , adultery , murder , persecuting the church all of those things are not gods will but are satans Will even thy y were slaves to sin ultimately it’s the gospel that can set us free and change our sinful Will that may do right sometimes or most times but eventually will sin because of adams flesh corruption

The gospel can change that issue in our mind and heart by replacing it with Gods true words of salvstion

 

[phil36]

but...............................once God opens our eyes and we understand and desire to "submit" to Him, there are many who have Rejected Him. so, it's more than just having our eyes opened.

Those who reject are the still blind. The opening of the eyes is the effect of the outward call of the gospel, God's word and the inward working of the Spirit.

Only those who have the Spirit can understand the word. So the blind are still blind and those who have their eyes opened have the Spirit dwelling in them.

In fact we see this very thing, with the great example of Peter preaching the word in Acts. The outward call as Peter preached and they were cut to the heart.. Inward working of the Spirit. Now there's another important part read the last sentence.

37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, n what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and p be baptized every one of you q in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive s the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and u for your children and for all v who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself

 

[FreeGrace2]

I'm reformed and I believe I freely makes choices. 😉. All humans make their choices freely. So that's not the issue.. Is it 🤔

Well, how come so many Calvinists claim that man doesn't have free will? And they firmly believe that God MUST first regenerate someone BEFORE they can believe.

Do you believe all that?

 

[FreeGrace2]

"Calvinism", "Arminianism", Catholicism", "Mormonism", "Montanism", "Modal Monarchianism", etc. all have one thing in common. They're all "Theological 'ISMS". All theological opinions containing some TRUTH and some ERROR in varying proportions.

That's why I became an"Eclectic", years ago, and really don't bother with ANY of the "Isms.

'Isms" didn't even have a part in getting me "Born Again" of the Holy Spirit, and my Christian walk doesn't depend on any of 'em.

I agree with this. I like to describe myself as a Biblicist. And my study method is from the Bereans.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

yeah sinners actually are slaves to Satan it’s the gospel that gives us a choice see because Mankind rejected Gods glory and calling in the beginning and chose satans word instead and it’s curse God handed man over to his own Will which had been enslaved by satans evil Will

a lie corrupted our Will and caused slavery to sin

“Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; and ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free. Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin. If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭8:31-32, 34, 36‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we share the gospel in order to change the sinners corrupted trapped mind , into the mind of Jesus expressed in the gospel who is free from Slavery to sin

“And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, in meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; and that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.”
‭‭2 Timothy‬ ‭2:24-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

adam was given freedom and a choice it came when God spoke this

“And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭2:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and Satan whispered this afterwards

“And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: for God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil. And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭3:4-6‬ ‭

man now has good and evil before them life and death they can eat of the tree of life and all e trees in Eden and remain with God in his Will or tbey can let satans snare lead them to transgression and certain death.

When adam sinned this happened

“Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned: For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5:12, 19‬

he had sold mankknd ( his offspring ) into servitude to sin and death because God warned him and he followed satans lie instead in the end our choice is always “God said this it’s true “ even if it’s a warning like “ don’t eat the fruit you will surely die if you do “ It’s always true

and Satan always offers an alternative truth to what Jesus has stated is truth the choice is to believe what God said or what e world has to say which is influenced by Satan.

for a long time man was bound to sin even Moses killed a man abrahan lied Noah got drunk d pawed out naked , David committed adultery and had a man killed to cover it up paul tried to destroy the church ect

all those righteous men in Christ the best they could do was still serve satans Will a lie , adultery , murder , persecuting the church all of those things are not gods will but are satans Will even thy y were slaves to sin ultimately it’s the gospel that can set us free and change our sinful Will that may do right sometimes or most times but eventually will sin because of adams flesh corruption

The gospel can change that issue in our mind and heart by replacing it with Gods true words of salvstion

yeah, i thought about that post afterwards once the edit time was over and would have changed it up.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Those who reject are the still blind. The opening of the eyes is the effect of the outward call of the gospel, God's word and the inward working of the Spirit.

Only those who have the Spirit can understand the word. So the blind are still blind and those who have their eyes opened have the Spirit dwelling in them.

In fact we see this very thing, with the great example of Peter preaching the word in Acts. The outward call as Peter preached and they were cut to the heart.. Inward working of the Spirit. Now there's another important part read the last sentence.

37Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, n what shall we do?” 38And Peter said to them, “Repent and p be baptized every one of you q in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive s the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39For the promise is for you and u for your children and for all v who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself

they were cut to the heart when Stephen spoke and rejected it and stoned him to death.

 

[phil36]

they were cut to the heart when Stephen spoke and rejected it and stoned him to death.

Acts 7.

Now when they heard these things they were enraged, and they ground their teeth at him. 55But he, full of the Holy Spirit, gazed into heaven and saw o the glory of God, and Jesus standing p at the right hand of God.

 

[phil36]

The word had its desired effect on them.. It hardened their hearts even more. Plus where they 'those that God calls to himself' as Peter says.

The Gospel call always has an effect it either hardens or renews. Those men where never inwardly enlightened by the Spirit. For only with the Spirit can man understand the things of God.

 

[Bob-Carabbio]

I agree with this. I like to describe myself as a Biblicist. And my study method is from the Bereans.

Remembering Josef Goebbels, who said that "the people DON'T WANT to be involved in government, they want a STRONG LEADER, who will run things, and give them a peaceful, and easy life" The bereans got involved in seeking the truth. Folks who subscribe to "isms", are letting someone else do the heavy lifting.

 

[Hazelelponi]

I'm not done - accident post.