If sin is not imputed without the law, how can some claim that babies and children die because Adam's sin is imputed to them?

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Mar 26, 2014
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but a natuonal generational accumulation of sins if the next generation walks in the sins of the previous ones.

"but a natuonal generational accumulation of sins ??? if ??? the next generation walks in the sins of the previous ones.

I don't find this conditional promise in any passage. We see the fulfillment of "visiting the sins onto the children" in Numbers 14 during the rebellion. Moses invoked Exodus 20:5 and 6 in response to the rebellion and then explained how it would be fulfilled by the innocent children wandering in the desert for 40 years as shepards. They were declared innocent by Moses as he explained that the sins of their parents would be visited upon them. In other words, God punished the parents by not letting them into the promise land and it was visited upon the children because they were too young to cross over by themselves. They still needed their parents. The parents were punished, the children experienced the effects of parent's punishment.

There is no indication that the children walked in the same sins as their parents but they still suffered in accordance with Exodus 20:5. This destroys the common "if" argument commonly cited in similar discussions.
 
Jul 31, 2013
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"but a natuonal generational accumulation of sins ??? if ??? the next generation walks in the sins of the previous ones.

I don't find this conditional promise in any passage. We see the fulfillment of "visiting the sins onto the children" in Numbers 14 during the rebellion. Moses invoked Exodus 20:5 and 6 in response to the rebellion and then explained how it would be fulfilled by the innocent children wandering in the desert for 40 years as shepards. They were declared innocent by Moses as he explained that the sins of their parents would be visited upon them. In other words, God punished the parents by not letting them into the promise land and it was visited upon the children because they were too young to cross over by themselves. They still needed their parents. The parents were punished, the children experienced the effects of parent's punishment.

There is no indication that the children walked in the same sins as their parents but they still suffered in accordance with Exodus 20:5. This destroys the common "if" argument commonly cited in similar discussions.
what about the sins of David being visited on the whole nation, as in the matter of the census?
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
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"but a natuonal generational accumulation of sins ??? if ??? the next generation walks in the sins of the previous ones.

I don't find this conditional promise in any passage. We see the fulfillment of "visiting the sins onto the children" in Numbers 14 during the rebellion. Moses invoked Exodus 20:5 and 6 in response to the rebellion and then explained how it would be fulfilled by the innocent children wandering in the desert for 40 years as shepards. They were declared innocent by Moses as he explained that the sins of their parents would be visited upon them. In other words, God punished the parents by not letting them into the promise land and it was visited upon the children because they were too young to cross over by themselves. They still needed their parents. The parents were punished, the children experienced the effects of parent's punishment.

There is no indication that the children walked in the same sins as their parents but they still suffered in accordance with Exodus 20:5. This destroys the common "if" argument commonly cited in similar discussions.
The clause "and bear your whoredoms" in Numbers 14:33 does not necessarily mean that the younger generation were being punished for the whoredoms of their fathers.

31 But your little ones, which ye said should be a prey, them will I bring in, and they shall know the land which ye have despised.

32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.

33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and they shall bear [ וְנָשְׂאוּ W-NaSh"U] your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.

NaSha" has many possible nuances of meaning based on the context and it;s orimary meaning of to lift, bear up, carry, and take.
  1. to lift, bear up, carry, take
    1. (Qal)
      1. to lift, lift up
      2. to bear, carry, support, sustain, endure
      3. to take, take away, carry off, forgive

34 After the number of the days in which ye searched the land, even forty days, each day for a year, shall ye bear/endure your iniquities, even forty years, and ye shall know my breach of promise.

35 I the Lord have said, I will surely do it unto all this evil congregation, that are gathered together against me: in this wilderness they shall be consumed, and there they shall die.

The older generation of Israelites were set in their complaining and rebellious ways, which the younger generation being trained under Moses, Joshua and Caleb for their eventual conquest of Canaan would find offensive, but would need to bear in deference to the commandment to honour their father and mothers. They were not being punished for the sins of, nor bearing the guilt of their parents. They were suffering some collateral damage from their parents being punished for their own sins.