I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.
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M
Of course the double talk of ellen g white is amazing! but these points are all contained with a multitude of false doctrines and other false prophecies ...of course the ministers of satan come cloaked as ministers of righteousness and can sometime speak some truth. Most folks who teach false doctrine have a very good cover and appearance to bring in their heresy. So if she says one day your saved by grace through faith and then the next words are putting folks under the works of the law...you know she really don't uphold grace and faith.
M
With every post I have given the address to her own writtings... anybody can look them up and decide for themselves.
Mrs. White claimed that the words she wrote came from God and were not to be changed:
James White played a key role in the development of his wife's writings. Being more educated and skilled as a writer, James assisted Ellen in editing and reviewing her writings. His most infamous editing episode was his publication of the pamphlet entitled Experiences and Views in 1851. In that pamphlet, James republished his wife's earlier visions, but deleted out 19% of the text--primarily those parts dealing with the shut door of salvation. The deletion of the material created such an uproar among the brethren, the fledgling church was almost split.
James insisted that his wife's writings be "polished" before they were published by the "last touches of the old gentleman's pencil."[SUP]3[/SUP] Just how much of the "old gentleman's" penciling became part of the "inspired" testimonies is impossible to determine.
In 1992, the Review revealed the practice of the staff of the White Estate in revising and altering the writings of Ellen White. Paul A. Gordon, then secretary of the White Estate, writes:
Mrs. White claimed that the words she wrote came from God and were not to be changed:
"The word given me is, 'You are faithfully to reprove those who would mar the faith of the people of God. Write out the things which I shall give you, that they may stand as a witness to the truth till the end of time.' I said, 'If any of the citizens of Battle Creek wish to know what Mrs. White believes and teaches, let them read her published books. My labors would be naught should I preach another gospel. That which I have written is what the Lord has bidden me write. I have not been instructed to change that which I have sent out.'"[SUP]1[/SUP]
If Mrs. White was not instructed to change what she sent out, then who gave the instructions? Who approved the alterations to her writings? Mrs. White said, "I am not to retract one word of the message I have borne."[SUP]2[/SUP] Despite this, a number of her words have been retracted and removed from later publications: - Statements referring to the shut door of salvation.
- Statements which have been proven false by science, such as amalgamation.
- An entire chapter of the Great Controversy (chapter 12 "God Honoreth the Humble").
- Entire books have been taken out of print, such as An Appeal to Mothers, which was full of 19th century myths about the dangers of "self abuse".
James insisted that his wife's writings be "polished" before they were published by the "last touches of the old gentleman's pencil."[SUP]3[/SUP] Just how much of the "old gentleman's" penciling became part of the "inspired" testimonies is impossible to determine.
In 1992, the Review revealed the practice of the staff of the White Estate in revising and altering the writings of Ellen White. Paul A. Gordon, then secretary of the White Estate, writes:
"Is it legitimate to change, abridge, or simplify Ellen White's writings? The answer is yes. We can change, abridge, or simplify the words, but we do not have license to change the intended message. Here's why: Seventh-day Adventists do not hold to verbal inspiration. That means we do not believe that God dictated the words for Ellen White to use. ... In the years since Mrs. White's death in 1915, more than 50 new compilations or editions of Ellen White's books have been prepared by the E.G. White Estate. In every case--including editions that have been abridged, condensed, or simplified--the intended message has never been lost, only the wording has been changed."[SUP]4[/SUP]
Apparently the process of altering and changing Mrs. White's writings is a longstanding practice. In 1883 a resolution was passed by the General Conference creating a committee to oversee revisions in her writings: "33.WHEREAS, Many of these testimonies were written under the most unfavorable circumstances, the writer being too heavily pressed with anxiety and labor to devote critical thought to the grammatical perfection of the writings, and they were printed in such haste as to allow these imperfections to pass uncorrected; and, WHEREAS, we believe the light given by God to His servants is by the enlightenment of the mind, thus imparting the thoughts, and not (except in rare cases) the very words in which the ideas should be expressed; therefore, Resolved, That in the republication of these volumes, such verbal changes be made as to remove the above-named imperfections, as far as possible, without in any measure changing the thought; and further,
34. Resolved, That this body appoint a committee of five to take charge of the republication of these volumes according to the above preambles and resolutions."[SUP]5[/SUP]
Mrs. White's secretaries had a large role in preparing her works for publication. One of her secretaries, Fannie Bolton, once asked if it was proper for Mrs. White to get credit for her writings since they had to be "almost entirely changed" from their original form.[SUP]6[/SUP] In the 1919 conference on Ellen White, SDA college president W.W. Prescott mentions the changes he was involved in and how it left him with doubts regarding the inspiration of Mrs. White's writings: 34. Resolved, That this body appoint a committee of five to take charge of the republication of these volumes according to the above preambles and resolutions."[SUP]5[/SUP]
"Here's my difficulty. I have gone over this (The Great Controversy) and suggested changes that ought to be made in order to correct statements. These changes have been accepted. My personal difficulty will be to retain faith on those things that I cannot deal with on that basis. ... If we correct it here and correct it there, how are we going to stand with it in the other places?"[SUP]7[/SUP]
K
All you have revealed is that people who came together continually to study the bible and ask for God's guidance that they might preach and teach it with His power, were given God's guidance in doing the same. Let me highlight what you did not.
We all know that God reveals truth to His prophets. The above proves nothing regarding the truth of that received or not. The bible itself will determine its truthfulness or not. Not you, or me, or anyone else. If you want to prove her false, prove it from scripture.
We all know that God reveals truth to His prophets. The above proves nothing regarding the truth of that received or not. The bible itself will determine its truthfulness or not. Not you, or me, or anyone else. If you want to prove her false, prove it from scripture.
J
The only way this thread will become truly fruitful. Is if you SDAs stop positioning yourself defensively. Please share your own thoughts on Ellen White and the other founders of the SDA church. Share with us the most easily/frequently misunderstood and difficult to understand teachings, and explain how you have come to realize they align with Scripture. In an SDA thread, I am not here to debate the Bible as to why you believe we should keep the Sabbath (I can believe I should keep the Sabbath without being SDA).
K
The writings of EGW may be obtained by all. If you want to know what she taught, get her writings. It is not possible to keep up with the unending accusations of the unlearned. I've been doing this for many years. To date, the accusers never bother responding or admitting when they are proved wrong or to have misquoted EGW or twisted her words. They simply move on to another accusation. This is fine, it will all come out in the laundry. All of our words will be judged.
Mt 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
No one will ever be saved by being of this or that denomination. I could care less about defending this or that denomination. I would leave the SDA church in a heartbeat if I find it to be untrue. I will also reject EGW as a prophetess of God if I find this to be untrue. Having read her works extensively though, I am convinced she was. I have no family or other tradition to uphold by remaining an SDA. I remain one because they speak the truth in closer accordance with scripture than any other I have heard or studied. Let all tradition be forsaken and damned in the pursuit of truth. It is most often a hindrance upon the same. The following internet site might be of interest to you. It addresses many accusations and issues against EGW.
Mt 12:35 A good man out of the good treasure of the heart bringeth forth good things: and an evil man out of the evil treasure bringeth forth evil things. 36 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.
No one will ever be saved by being of this or that denomination. I could care less about defending this or that denomination. I would leave the SDA church in a heartbeat if I find it to be untrue. I will also reject EGW as a prophetess of God if I find this to be untrue. Having read her works extensively though, I am convinced she was. I have no family or other tradition to uphold by remaining an SDA. I remain one because they speak the truth in closer accordance with scripture than any other I have heard or studied. Let all tradition be forsaken and damned in the pursuit of truth. It is most often a hindrance upon the same. The following internet site might be of interest to you. It addresses many accusations and issues against EGW.
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Just for you my friend Mitspa - all I ask is that you read the entire entry including your entry in context....Please just for the Blond and then help me to understand what I am not understanding.....Thanks my friend.
[h=1]Early Writings : Page 54[/h][h=2]End of the 2300 Days[/h]I saw a throne, and on it sat the Father and the Son. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired His lovely person. The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered Him. I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like Himself. He said He had, but I could not behold it, for said He, "If you should once behold the glory of His person, you would cease to exist." Before the throne I saw the Advent people--the church and the world. I saw two companies, one bowed down before the throne, deeply interested, while the other stood uninterested and careless. Those who were bowed before the throne would offer up their prayers and look to Jesus; then He would look to His Father, and appear to be pleading
Page 55
with Him. A light would come from the Father to the Son and from the Son to the praying company. Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from the Father to the Son, and from the Son it waved over the people before the throne. But few would receive this great light. Many came out from under it and immediately resisted it; others were careless and did not cherish the light, and it moved off from them. Some cherished it, and went and bowed down with the little praying company. This company all received the light and rejoiced in it, and their countenances shone with its glory.
I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, "Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself." Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, "My Father, give us Thy Spirit." Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace.
Page 56
I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children.
I realize that this was long....and it is a shame that most won't take the time to read it. But when a statement is taken out of context then it appears to have a totally separate meaning.....Please at least read the statement in context and then lets talk.
[h=1]Early Writings : Page 54[/h][h=2]End of the 2300 Days[/h]I saw a throne, and on it sat the Father and the Son. I gazed on Jesus' countenance and admired His lovely person. The Father's person I could not behold, for a cloud of glorious light covered Him. I asked Jesus if His Father had a form like Himself. He said He had, but I could not behold it, for said He, "If you should once behold the glory of His person, you would cease to exist." Before the throne I saw the Advent people--the church and the world. I saw two companies, one bowed down before the throne, deeply interested, while the other stood uninterested and careless. Those who were bowed before the throne would offer up their prayers and look to Jesus; then He would look to His Father, and appear to be pleading
Page 55
with Him. A light would come from the Father to the Son and from the Son to the praying company. Then I saw an exceeding bright light come from the Father to the Son, and from the Son it waved over the people before the throne. But few would receive this great light. Many came out from under it and immediately resisted it; others were careless and did not cherish the light, and it moved off from them. Some cherished it, and went and bowed down with the little praying company. This company all received the light and rejoiced in it, and their countenances shone with its glory.
I saw the Father rise from the throne, and in a flaming chariot go into the holy of holies within the veil, and sit down. Then Jesus rose up from the throne, and the most of those who were bowed down arose with Him. I did not see one ray of light pass from Jesus to the careless multitude after He arose, and they were left in perfect darkness. Those who arose when Jesus did, kept their eyes fixed on Him as He left the throne and led them out a little way. Then He raised His right arm, and we heard His lovely voice saying, "Wait here; I am going to My Father to receive the kingdom; keep your garments spotless, and in a little while I will return from the wedding and receive you to Myself." Then a cloudy chariot, with wheels like flaming fire, surrounded by angels, came to where Jesus was. He stepped into the chariot and was borne to the holiest, where the Father sat. There I beheld Jesus, a great High Priest, standing before the Father. On the hem of His garment was a bell and a pomegranate, a bell and a pomegranate. Those who rose up with Jesus would send up their faith to Him in the holiest, and pray, "My Father, give us Thy Spirit." Then Jesus would breathe upon them the Holy Ghost. In that breath was light, power, and much love, joy, and peace.
Page 56
I turned to look at the company who were still bowed before the throne; they did not know that Jesus had left it. Satan appeared to be by the throne, trying to carry on the work of God. I saw them look up to the throne, and pray, "Father, give us Thy Spirit." Satan would then breathe upon them an unholy influence; in it there was light and much power, but no sweet love, joy, and peace. Satan's object was to keep them deceived and to draw back and deceive God's children.
I realize that this was long....and it is a shame that most won't take the time to read it. But when a statement is taken out of context then it appears to have a totally separate meaning.....Please at least read the statement in context and then lets talk.
K
With every post I have given the address to her own writtings... anybody can look them up and decide for themselves.
Mrs. White claimed that the words she wrote came from God and were not to be changed:
James White played a key role in the development of his wife's writings. Being more educated and skilled as a writer, James assisted Ellen in editing and reviewing her writings. His most infamous editing episode was his publication of the pamphlet entitled Experiences and Views in 1851. In that pamphlet, James republished his wife's earlier visions, but deleted out 19% of the text--primarily those parts dealing with the shut door of salvation. The deletion of the material created such an uproar among the brethren, the fledgling church was almost split.
James insisted that his wife's writings be "polished" before they were published by the "last touches of the old gentleman's pencil."[SUP]3[/SUP] Just how much of the "old gentleman's" penciling became part of the "inspired" testimonies is impossible to determine.
In 1992, the Review revealed the practice of the staff of the White Estate in revising and altering the writings of Ellen White. Paul A. Gordon, then secretary of the White Estate, writes:
Mrs. White claimed that the words she wrote came from God and were not to be changed:
"The word given me is, 'You are faithfully to reprove those who would mar the faith of the people of God. Write out the things which I shall give you, that they may stand as a witness to the truth till the end of time.' I said, 'If any of the citizens of Battle Creek wish to know what Mrs. White believes and teaches, let them read her published books. My labors would be naught should I preach another gospel. That which I have written is what the Lord has bidden me write. I have not been instructed to change that which I have sent out.'"[SUP]1[/SUP]
If Mrs. White was not instructed to change what she sent out, then who gave the instructions? Who approved the alterations to her writings? Mrs. White said, "I am not to retract one word of the message I have borne."[SUP]2[/SUP] Despite this, a number of her words have been retracted and removed from later publications: - Statements referring to the shut door of salvation.
- Statements which have been proven false by science, such as amalgamation.
- An entire chapter of the Great Controversy (chapter 12 "God Honoreth the Humble").
- Entire books have been taken out of print, such as An Appeal to Mothers, which was full of 19th century myths about the dangers of "self abuse".
James insisted that his wife's writings be "polished" before they were published by the "last touches of the old gentleman's pencil."[SUP]3[/SUP] Just how much of the "old gentleman's" penciling became part of the "inspired" testimonies is impossible to determine.
In 1992, the Review revealed the practice of the staff of the White Estate in revising and altering the writings of Ellen White. Paul A. Gordon, then secretary of the White Estate, writes:
"Is it legitimate to change, abridge, or simplify Ellen White's writings? The answer is yes. We can change, abridge, or simplify the words, but we do not have license to change the intended message. Here's why: Seventh-day Adventists do not hold to verbal inspiration. That means we do not believe that God dictated the words for Ellen White to use. ... In the years since Mrs. White's death in 1915, more than 50 new compilations or editions of Ellen White's books have been prepared by the E.G. White Estate. In every case--including editions that have been abridged, condensed, or simplified--the intended message has never been lost, only the wording has been changed."[SUP]4[/SUP]
Apparently the process of altering and changing Mrs. White's writings is a longstanding practice. In 1883 a resolution was passed by the General Conference creating a committee to oversee revisions in her writings:"33.WHEREAS, Many of these testimonies were written under the most unfavorable circumstances, the writer being too heavily pressed with anxiety and labor to devote critical thought to the grammatical perfection of the writings, and they were printed in such haste as to allow these imperfections to pass uncorrected; and, WHEREAS, we believe the light given by God to His servants is by the enlightenment of the mind, thus imparting the thoughts, and not (except in rare cases) the very words in which the ideas should be expressed; therefore, Resolved, That in the republication of these volumes, such verbal changes be made as to remove the above-named imperfections, as far as possible, without in any measure changing the thought; and further,
34. Resolved, That this body appoint a committee of five to take charge of the republication of these volumes according to the above preambles and resolutions."[SUP]5[/SUP]
Mrs. White's secretaries had a large role in preparing her works for publication. One of her secretaries, Fannie Bolton, once asked if it was proper for Mrs. White to get credit for her writings since they had to be "almost entirely changed" from their original form.[SUP]6[/SUP] In the 1919 conference on Ellen White, SDA college president W.W. Prescott mentions the changes he was involved in and how it left him with doubts regarding the inspiration of Mrs. White's writings:34. Resolved, That this body appoint a committee of five to take charge of the republication of these volumes according to the above preambles and resolutions."[SUP]5[/SUP]
"Here's my difficulty. I have gone over this (The Great Controversy) and suggested changes that ought to be made in order to correct statements. These changes have been accepted. My personal difficulty will be to retain faith on those things that I cannot deal with on that basis. ... If we correct it here and correct it there, how are we going to stand with it in the other places?"[SUP]7[/SUP]
K
As I already stated, there is no end to the accusations. There are new ones all the time. If those who make them are not willing to follow through a discussion about them, but continually hop from one to another without ever addressing any responses, what you are asking cannot be done. If you have a particular problem with something we believe, I will be glad to address it from scripture. Different people have different problems with what we believe. Some people obviously are not going to stand still long enough to address the issues they will continually spew out. If you have an issue you are actually willing to discuss, please do bring it forward.