How to be Born Again

[FreeGrace2]

Your estimation is right .

Thank you!

The only thing to say is on the P . They teach it as eternal security ( which i do hold to ) but its for all practical purposes its works salvation.

I think it used to be eternal security, but it seems they've drifted towards the idea that the "truly" saved will persevere to the end, which is, as you note, more of a works salvation notion. That's why I said the "P" was tricky. 2 different words have been used; perseverance and preservation.

You have to look constantly to your works in order to keep on trying to guess if your really one of the elect all along. It leads to fear and its essentially ' Lordship salvation ' .

Yes indeedy!

 

[Guojing]

I wish to understand your view. But you seem quite unwilling to explain them in a manner that can be understood.

And that's fine too.

You can explain to others but you cannot understand for them.

 

[brightfame52]

I'm not questioning how a calvinist ' supports' his doctrines by scripture. A jehovah witness ' supports ' his doctrines with scripture . I said none of Calvinism s central doctrines are explicitly stated . Not one time does the bible SAY what the Calvinist teaches .

As long as you understand its supported by scripture, hence you are accountable to the scripture.

 

[brightfame52]

FreeGrace2 said:
You're not even able to engage anything I say. You haven't supported your beliefs and you haven't refuted mine.

I have proven that election is for service. I have many more verses too.

How many verses have you found that link election with salvation?

I see no relevance with what you posted in response to what I posted.

The issue is about election. But, yes, man is born in a hopeless situation naturally.

But so what? Everyone can receive the free gift of eternal life. By trusting in the work of Christ.

Are you aware that Titus 2:11 says that the grace of God brings salvation to all men (everyone). Do you believe that?

Mans total Spiritual inability sets the foundation for Sovereign Election to Salvation. Election is the only hope a sinner has in being saved, because of his ruined conditioned, dead in sin !

 

[brightfame52]

OK, I just gave verses that refutes the calvinist claims.

And you don't even attempt to prove me wrong. What's up with that?

OK, you claim all of tulip is biblical.

Then quote a verse for EACH point. Like I did which refutes each point.

You havent proved anything, you just quoted verses, you havent proved you understand them, so thats on you, not me. Im responsible to explain the verses I bring to the discussion, not yours and mine.

 

[brightfame52]

Verse 8: “So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.” And that’s the truth. There is no way that an unsaved man in this dispensation can please God. The flesh of an unsaved man operates on the basis of its senses; what it can see, touch, smell, hear, and feel. That is walking by sight. The Scriptures say, “without faith it is impossible to please him [God]” (Heb. 11:6). The Lord is pleased with praise and thanksgiving (Psa. 69:30–31), but the songs of the flesh deal with sex or romance or beauty, or drinking or men or women, or even nonsense. If a man wants to please God in the New Testament, then he will receive Christ and follow Scripture (1Thess. 4:1) and keep himself free to fight the battle to which God has called him (2 Tim. 2:4). Now, an unsaved man can get God’s attention with his prayers, like Cornelius did (Acts 10). God will often show mercy on an unsaved fellow who cries out to Him. After all, God “maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust” (Matt. 5:45). That’s God’s mercy to unsaved people. But when it comes to pleasing God, a man has to exercise faith in what God told him to do (Heb. 11:6). In this dispensation, God told men to believe on Jesus Christ for salvation (John 6:29). When that happens, then the man is no longer “in the flesh.” He is now “in the Spirit” (Rom. 8:9). With the new man living inside of him, the Christian can now please God by “making melody in your heart to the Lord” (Eph. 5:19). He now has the ability to follow Scripture in a way that will please God and to fight the good fight for Jesus Christ. Only in Christ can a man fulfill the purpose for which he was created (Rev. 4:11).

All men by nature are in the flesh and cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So man naturally can never have the Faith that pleases God as per Heb 11:6 which is Salvaic Faith.

 

[throughfaith]

As long as you understand its supported by scripture, hence you are accountable to the scripture.

I want to believe what the scriptures SAY .. Not a system that is 'supported ' by scripture . I purposely put ' ' around supported for a reason. You can ' support 'Just about any system / cult and false denomination by scripture. Thats why Calvinism is still around today . It blends into christian because like a virus it feeds off the host .

 

[throughfaith]

All men by nature are in the flesh and cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So man naturally can never have the Faith that pleases God as per Heb 11:6 which is Salvaic Faith.

Its referring to believers also who operate in the flesh in Romans 8 .

 

[throughfaith]

All men by nature are in the flesh and cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So man naturally can never have the Faith that pleases God as per Heb 11:6 which is Salvaic Faith.

Its ' without faith ' Faith pleases God .

 

[throughfaith]

All men by nature are in the flesh and cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So man naturally can never have the Faith that pleases God as per Heb 11:6 which is Salvaic Faith.

Noah , Enoch ect pleased God by Their obedience and faith. Fact .

 

[throughfaith]

All men by nature are in the flesh and cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So man naturally can never have the Faith that pleases God as per Heb 11:6 which is Salvaic Faith.

Cornelius pleased God in the sense of his prayers and alms to God were noticed . Then he was later regenerated and given the Holy spirit

 

[throughfaith]

All men by nature are in the flesh and cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So man naturally can never have the Faith that pleases God as per Heb 11:6 which is Salvaic Faith.

Cornelius alone refutes Calvinism.
1¶There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian band,

2A devout man, and one that feared God with all his house, which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.

3He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.

4¶And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God.

 

[tribesman]

All men by nature are in the flesh and cannot please God Rom 8:8

8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please God.

So man naturally can never have the Faith that pleases God as per Heb 11:6 which is Salvaic Faith.

True. Faith comes as a fruit or result of regeneration. And this faith is not something that unregenerate man can chose to have, as unregenerate. Or chose NOT to have, once he is regenerated.

 

[throughfaith]

True. Faith comes as a fruit or result of regeneration. And this faith is not something that unregenerate man can chose to have, as unregenerate. Or chose NOT to have, once he is regenerated.

What about Cornelius?

 

[throughfaith]

Mans total Spiritual inability sets the foundation for Sovereign Election to Salvation. Election is the only hope a sinner has in being saved, because of his ruined conditioned, dead in sin !

' Election ' is a word not a doctrine .

 

[FreeGrace2]

FreeGrace2 said:
I wish to understand your view. But you seem quite unwilling to explain them in a manner that can be understood.

And that's fine too.

You can explain to others but you cannot understand for them.

Your record player seems to be stuck.

And that's fine too.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Mans total Spiritual inability sets the foundation for Sovereign Election to Salvation.

There's just one small tiny problem. The Bible never speaks of being believing as a "spiritual ability", so your comment is irrelevant.

And again, you have not YET provided ANY Scripture that links salvation to election. It's just all a construct.

Election is the only hope a sinner has in being saved, because of his ruined conditioned, dead in sin !

There is no hope in election. Are you kidding?

Don't you believe Eph 1:4, that says clearly that God CHOSE before the foundation of the world. Or do you only believe parts of Eh 1:4. You gotta take the whole verse, regardless of how you may understand it.

So, since God has ALREADY CHOSEN, there is NO hope for anybody. And even calvinists believe that they can't know they are among the elect until they die. Where's the hope in that?

That's not hope. That's just WISHFUL thinking. And the Bible NEVER recommends such nonsense.

Biblical hope is a confident EXPECTATION. iow, that is faith. Believing what God has said and expecting it.

Calvinism has none of that.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You havent proved anything, you just quoted verses, you havent proved you understand them, so thats on you, not me. Im responsible to explain the verses I bring to the discussion, not yours and mine.

What a weak response. The verses actually SPEAK FOR THEMSELVES.

ALL the verses clearly stated the PURPOSE of election, and NONE of them mentioned salvation.

And, where are your verses that link election to salvation?

If you disagree with my verses being about election to service, why haven't you even tried to explain what they mean?

Is there a spiritual inability to?

 

[brightfame52]

I want to believe what the scriptures SAY .. Not a system that is 'supported ' by scripture . I purposely put ' ' around supported for a reason. You can ' support 'Just about any system / cult and false denomination by scripture. Thats why Calvinism is still around today . It blends into christian because like a virus it feeds off the host .

You say you do, but i cant see it.

 

[brightfame52]

Its referring to believers also who operate in the flesh in Romans 8 .

Its referring to unbelievers, they're in the flesh. Believers arent in the flesh because the Spirit dwells in them Rom 8:9

9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.