How old is our creation really?

[bojack]

1. The Mesopotamians believed in


I believe both the Old Testament and New Testament. Genesis 1-11 is not wrote to be read as literal history. It’s wrote to be read as a Jewish mythology.

And what all else have you declared wrong or myth ?
Unless you have Genesis 1 , you would have no clue about the beginning .. If you don't believe Genesis chapter 1 then you can not be grounded with a solid starting/working point to begin from .. If you asked Jesus face to face, LORD ''Is your Word to us true or false'' what would He say ? He'd say ''didn't I tell you once already'' ? If you say I don't believe you, then you will be open to every vain imagination and deceptive spirit that comes along . You choose what you believe and getting it wrong beginning the first Chapter in the Bible ''the beginning'' does not sound like the right way to get started ..

Do you believe and teach all the soft dino tissue existed any thing close to 93 million yrs ? bwahahaha .. I have trouble believing 4000 yrs . Put on your thinking cap and imagine how many things would accumulate over 200 million years before the flood if your view is true ..

 

[bojack]

Secondly you have to understand ancient world views vs modern world views and knowledge.

Paul says the gospel has already been heard by every creature under heaven and to the ends of the earth. Yet we know in his time the gospel did not reach Native American tribes. It’s common knowledge that within the Roman Empire those people believed and referred to the entire world as what was known throughout their Roman Empire. They did not consider americas the world because they did not even know it existed.

First, ancient knowledge got along just fine without cell phones, TV, Piggly Wiggly grocery stores and such, you can hardly think for yourself .. Today you won't survive 2 weeks with out them and are totally dependent ..

? Paul said what ? And all people were still together until the tower of babel .. Do you realize how short a time America was resettled to get to now ? Yet instead of overpopulation, earth can still hold and sustain about 70 billion people comfortably ..

 

[UnoiAmarah]

1. The Mesopotamians believed in


I believe both the Old Testament and New Testament. Genesis 1-11 is not wrote to be read as literal history. It’s wrote to be read as a Jewish mythology.

I can agree for the most part that it shouldn't be read as a literal history yet as far as being a mythological writing, I guess that is better than thinking it is written to be read as a book of divination.

 

[cv5]

Secondly you have to understand ancient world views vs modern world views and knowledge.

Paul says the gospel has already been heard by every creature under heaven and to the ends of the earth. Yet we know in his time the gospel did not reach Native American tribes. It’s common knowledge that within the Roman Empire those people believed and referred to the entire world as what was known throughout their Roman Empire. They did not consider americas the world because they did not even know it existed.

There are a lot of indications that Israel and the surrounding nations are biblically the center of Gods attention. Much of the Bible focuses on the general area. Simply because of Gods people Israel and Gods preferential city Jerusalem. Practically everyone else is in the peanut gallery so to speak.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

If you asked Jesus face to face, LORD ''Is your Word to us true or false'' what would He say ?

Hard question to answer the way you prefixed the question although I realize your are asking Skovand

Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

John 14:23-24

 

[Skovand]

And what all else have you declared wrong or myth ?
Unless you have Genesis 1 , you would have no clue about the beginning .. If you don't believe Genesis chapter 1 then you can not be grounded with a solid starting/working point to begin from .. If you asked Jesus face to face, LORD ''Is your Word to us true or false'' what would He say ? He'd say ''didn't I tell you once already'' ? If you say I don't believe you, then you will be open to every vain imagination and deceptive spirit that comes along . You choose what you believe and getting it wrong beginning the first Chapter in the Bible ''the beginning'' does not sound like the right way to get started ..

Do you believe and teach all the soft dino tissue existed any thing close to 93 million yrs ? bwahahaha .. I have trouble believing 4000 yrs . Put on your thinking cap and imagine how many things would accumulate over 200 million years before the flood if your view is true ..

You keep bringing up things already answered.

1. You keep bringing it up as if I don’t trust the Bible. I trust scripture 100%. That’s not the issue here. The issue here is not trusting scripture. The issue here is recognizing a myth vs a literal interpretation. Is revelation literal? Is the psalms about God battling a multi headed dragon literal? Is revelation literal? We’re the Assyrians Jonah preached too literally so dumb they did not know their left hand from their right? You’re repeatedly confusing your literal interpretation as biblical and then demand that I either take it literal or I don’t believe in the Bible. That’s a false comparison. That’s like me asking you do you accept the mythological story in genesis or do you call the Bible a lie? The Bible is 100% truth. It’s not 100% literal. So please stop confusing the choices as a literal interpretation or calling it a lie.

2. How do we know it’s not meant to be taken literally? Well from a strictly theological argument we can tell because of its writing style. It’s very similar to revelation. It skims ambiguously across dozens of people and thousands of years in just a few pages and then ignore the fact that the next 4 books span a generation or two. Contextual analysis determines a mythological structure.

3. I don’t have to ask Jesus if the Bible is truth or lie because I already know it’s truth. I also already know it’s not all literal.

4. Do you know what soft Dino tissue is? What exactly is it? Are you aware that the scientist that found it is a Christian who beloved in evolution and she has stated what lead to the soft tissue.

 

[Fundamental]

Well........All I can say is the first thing you need to do is actually understand what is information, What is its fundamental nature and attributes and where does it come from.

DNA is digital 3 out of 4 error correcting code. It is essentially software. Biological creatures are merely the hardware. Life is a derivation of the information that begat it.

And do yourself a big favor and read into the geocentric universe theory that I earlier posted. There is a high degree of confidence that the Milky Way Galaxy is in fact the center of the universe check it out.

What if there is no edge? Where would we define the “center”?

 

[Fundamental]

I am afraid of where it's going to lead, are you ?
8 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9 For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

Afraid is a big word, but it raises my concerns yes. I can see why it is beneficial, but since we are fallen and go against nature; no good can come out of it.

Those defyining what’s good these days are bad to the bone.

 

[Fundamental]

1. The Mesopotamians believed in


I believe both the Old Testament and New Testament. Genesis 1-11 is not wrote to be read as literal history. It’s wrote to be read as a Jewish mythology.

But it is written in such a way that the truth is also in the literal content.
Can you imagine what it would take to terraform a planet?
When we have to put a pdf file of 1000 pages in “nutshells” the “nutshell” may sound absurd to many, until they start reading the full content.

Earth was terraformed (with fauna and flora) and later on its biology got infected by something else. We as modern human beings are brand new on the “evolutionairy scale”. But we as species are still under control by a force we can not see yet replicate in our doings. This is described in the Bible. That we as human beings went a different path then what we were created for.

The theory of evil lucion made you forget that?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

The issue here is recognizing a myth vs a literal interpretation.

So is this a myth or literal? Of course the the events of Day 1 are considerably more complex than what is written in the scriptures, yet it was sufficient to give me the knowledge of that which I didn't even know that I didn't know. So did that mean I knew anything about the subject, no. All it meant was that I knew that I didn't know but it was the point at which I could maybe begin learn to something.

While the common theory holds the Fusion model based upon a hydrogen formed Sun, Maybe the LORD will reveal unto you a different model, which I won't go into any detail since the point is that the each day of the process contain precepts that are written for a reason. Such as God said let there be light and there was light. You might think that God being light that there would be light. But then again God might have seen his audible world seeing that it is a light wave of the the electromagnetic spectrum. Yet how can something be divided from nothing, it can't but if something is divided from something, you have two things with of the same substance yet having a different nature.

Maybe after 30+ years, even if all the LORD let's them see is that it is actually a closer to 40 years that I wouldn't have had without his hand. Who knows what that radiant heat of the light upon the frozen waters might do to the waters underneath.

And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. Gen 1:5​

 

[Skovand]

So is this a myth or literal? Of course the the events of Day 1 are considerably more complex than what is written in the scriptures, yet it was sufficient to give me the knowledge of that which I didn't even know that I didn't know. So did that mean I knew anything about the subject, no. All it meant was that I knew that I didn't know but it was the point at which I could maybe begin learn to something.

While the common theory holds the Fusion model based upon a hydrogen formed Sun, Maybe the LORD will reveal unto you a different model, which I won't go into any detail since the point is that the each day of the process contain precepts that are written for a reason. Such as God said let there be light and there was light. You might think that God being light that there would be light. But then again God might have seen his audible world seeing that it is a light wave of the the electromagnetic spectrum. Yet how can something be divided from nothing, it can't but if something is divided from something, you have two things with of the same substance yet having a different nature.

Maybe after 30+ years, even if all the LORD let's them see is that it is actually a closer to 40 years that I wouldn't have had without his hand. Who knows what that radiant heat of the light upon the frozen waters might do to the waters underneath.

View attachment 221401
And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. Gen 1:5​

For me nothing in genesis 1-2 is relevant to science. It’s there for only theological purposes setting up future patterns for the Jewish people. It’s not scientifically focused at all. “Let their be” is not the same as the Big Bang. Moses was setting up the Bible with the purpose that they were Gods chosen people and revealing repeating patterns trough a Jewish creation mythos.

Humans are primates. That’s why when we look at other primates we see such similar features. Genetically, our dna is way more similar to a chimpanzee who diverged from a common ancestor 8,000,000 years ago. It’s why our DNA is a lot more similar to them than to a raccoon. Our genetics are more similar to a raccoon than to a fish. The six days of different creation are not literally six days or even time periods. They have nothing to do with anything even remotely scientific but are linked strictly to the setting up of the week to set up the sabbath.

 

[cv5]

What if there is no edge? Where would we define the “center”?

Do some research on what I posted and the link that I posted. The universe is expanding around a centroid and that centroid is the milky way galaxy.

 

[Skovand]

Do some research on what I posted and the link that I posted. The universe is expanding around a centroid and that centroid is the milky way galaxy.

While researching this as individuals I also suggest emailing an astronomy professor or scientist and asking them some questions about this.

 

[cv5]

While researching this as individuals I also suggest emailing an astronomy professor or scientist and asking them some questions about this.

I used to email Barry Setterfield quite often about these sorts of questions. The poor guys health is failing so I stopped because he needs his rest.

With the Internet you can do quite a lot on your own. Go ahead and read about quantized redshifts. Very interesting.

 

[bojack]

You keep bringing up things already answered.

1. You keep bringing it up as if I don’t trust the Bible. I trust scripture 100%. That’s not the issue here. The issue here is not trusting scripture. The issue here is recognizing a myth vs a literal interpretation. Is revelation literal? Is the psalms about God battling a multi headed dragon literal? Is revelation literal? We’re the Assyrians Jonah preached too literally so dumb they did not know their left hand from their right? You’re repeatedly confusing your literal interpretation as biblical and then demand that I either take it literal or I don’t believe in the Bible. That’s a false comparison. That’s like me asking you do you accept the mythological story in genesis or do you call the Bible a lie? The Bible is 100% truth. It’s not 100% literal. So please stop confusing the choices as a literal interpretation or calling it a lie.

2. How do we know it’s not meant to be taken literally? Well from a strictly theological argument we can tell because of its writing style. It’s very similar to revelation. It skims ambiguously across dozens of people and thousands of years in just a few pages and then ignore the fact that the next 4 books span a generation or two. Contextual analysis determines a mythological structure.

3. I don’t have to ask Jesus if the Bible is truth or lie because I already know it’s truth. I also already know it’s not all literal.

4. Do you know what soft Dino tissue is? What exactly is it? Are you aware that the scientist that found it is a Christian who beloved in evolution and she has stated what lead to the soft tissue.

And Revelation is prophecy describing and defining future events with a pointing perspective .. Dreams, visions, parables and prophecy are all just as true as actual events that contain specific names, dates, time and orders .. Actual events are actual events and awesome, don't be afraid and don't screw up some one else's faith who don't know any better from what you spread like leprosy .. You should announce every evolution supporting thread you post with a short intro ''unclean, unclean''

''If it were not so I would have told you'' .. Noah's ark had specific information, measurements, building material and finishing plans given to Noah .. Noah built the ark according to specific plans then God even selected animals then shut the door on the ark .. I believe the ark was found in Turkey by Ron Wyatt near the village called the ''Village of Eight .. But until our ''know it all'' present generation Noah's ark was known from the time it landed .. Think about it, why have some people always known until the last hundred years .. It is so accepted that it's not a big deal where they know ..

Scovand said =''4. Do you know what soft Dino tissue is? What exactly is it? Are you aware that the scientist that found it is a Christian who beloved in evolution and she has stated what lead to the soft tissue''

She's either lying to keep her job or she's stupid .. Watch at least beginning about 6 minute mark in this short 7 min video ... Dino soft tissue

 

[bojack]

While researching this as individuals I also suggest emailing an astronomy professor or scientist and asking them some questions about this.

The integrity of spiral arm structure intact on galaxies from supposed billions of light years away then other galaxies hundreds of billions, thousands of billions, are all intact, it is impossible , The lack of supernovas proves very young creation too.. Come'on man

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Humans are primates.

While scientism can make up whatever rules it wants, the same is not true with legitimate science. Every discipline of science is based upon principles which are fixed and unalterable by which the universe is governed and regulated. Principles are not made up by man but are formed by the precepts found in nature which establish their validity and demonstrate their immutability. While zoological taxonomy is derived from the principle revealed in the scriptures that identifies and separates the different kinds of living creatures, the question is whether it holds true to the precepts upon which it is founded upon.

While the tiger genome sequence shows 95.6% similarity to the domestic cat while human and gorilla have 94.8% similarity the instructions regarding the validity of a precept is that it isn't judged according to appearance but according to righteous judgment.

Thus, that data is interesting and useful, it is not relevant in determining the Order. Since the the the tiger and cat both contain 38 chromosomes it would be reasonable to include both under one Order however since primates have 48 chromosomes and the human has 46 chromosomes then this would be in order,

In addition, the second precept for determining the Order is cell fusion. If the species within an Order is incapable of procreating with those within it one has to question the likelihood of their being any lineage between members of that Order. Cell fusion should be possible within the taxological Order even if chance of cell fusion occurring naturally is problematic.

Extensive efforts to produce cell fusion between a human gamete and a primate gamete were attempted by scientist, dating as far back as the 1920's, yet one US scientist is claimed to have achieved cell fusion and produced a viable genome. There are a number of reported cases but not any reported evidence to support the claims.
https://www.sciencealert.com/scient...imp-hybrid-100-years-ago-gallup-yerkes-oliver
https://news.google.com/newspapers?...AIBAJ&sjid=rFgDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6991,3347287&hl=en

While it obvious based upon those two precepts that man shouldn't be in the same Order as primates, yet if scientists lack the ability to use complex tools like the principle then that makes one consider what genus is behind the pulpits. I bet you thought I was going to say primates didn't you? Nah, helpmates.

Maybe this analogy might help, while the chocolates in the box might not be the same, the size and number of slots in the box remains the same. That is why it is called a box of chocolates with 46ps.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

'If it were not so I would have told you'' .

Begs the question, when did it come to pass that the LORD brought a cloud over the earth?

And it shall come to pass, when I bring a cloud over the earth, that the bow shall be seen in the cloud:
15 And I will remember my covenant, which is between me and you and every living creature of all flesh; and the waters shall no more become a flood to destroy all flesh.
16 And the bow shall be in the cloud;
Gen 9:14-16

 

[bojack]

For me nothing in genesis 1-2 is relevant to science. It’s there for only theological purposes setting up future patterns for the Jewish people. It’s not scientifically focused at all. “Let their be” is not the same as the Big Bang. Moses was setting up the Bible with the purpose that they were Gods chosen people and revealing repeating patterns trough a Jewish creation mythos.

Humans are primates. That’s why when we look at other primates we see such similar features. Genetically, our dna is way more similar to a chimpanzee who diverged from a common ancestor 8,000,000 years ago. It’s why our DNA is a lot more similar to them than to a raccoon. Our genetics are more similar to a raccoon than to a fish. The six days of different creation are not literally six days or even time periods. They have nothing to do with anything even remotely scientific but are linked strictly to the setting up of the week to set up the sabbath.

True science is relevant ever since Genesis 1 supernatural creation week .. If Jesus turned 6 stone pots filled with water into wine then creation week is true .. Another example of supernatural creation
6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.
7 And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness.
8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.

not to mention millions who have personally experienced supernatural miracles that defy ''science'' and many more un-noticed .. There are testimonies so bizarre some folks only tell some Christians and not others for fear of being accused a liar ..

 

[Skovand]

True science is relevant ever since Genesis 1 supernatural creation week .. If Jesus turned 6 stone pots filled with water into wine then creation week is true .. Another example of supernatural creation
6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.
7 And Moses laid up the rods before the LORD in the tabernacle of witness.
8 And it came to pass, that on the morrow Moses went into the tabernacle of witness; and, behold, the rod of Aaron for the house of Levi was budded, and brought forth buds, and bloomed blossoms, and yielded almonds.

not to mention millions who have personally experienced supernatural miracles that defy ''science'' and many more un-noticed .. There are testimonies so bizarre some folks only tell some Christians and not others for fear of being accused a liar ..

The biggest difference is not the supernatural. I believe in the supernatural that defies laws of science.

The biggest issue is contextual analysis.