How can one learn?
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Ok Law removed right?
Then again I ask, how does that fit with Mat.5:17-18? You have never given an answer to that.
The Law teaches us how to interact with HaShem, as well as how we should interact with one another.
I already told you why the Temple was removed. However you seem to not understand it. I will leave it there, and let it go. After all it is clear until you get the answer you want nothing will be seen as an answer.
Then again I ask, how does that fit with Mat.5:17-18? You have never given an answer to that.
The Law teaches us how to interact with HaShem, as well as how we should interact with one another.
I already told you why the Temple was removed. However you seem to not understand it. I will leave it there, and let it go. After all it is clear until you get the answer you want nothing will be seen as an answer.
i can enter the inner sanctum, because my Messiah lives.
Please give me a passage that say this explicitly. Keep in mind we are talking of the earthly Temple. Not the Heavenly Temple.
@posthuman
A quick recap of what you have said. I am doing this so you can see that what you say is not always in line with other things you say.
OTE="posthuman, post: 5172881, member: 170505"]and is not our husband or master, but only remains to curse those who reject the Messiah, according to Romans 1-8 & Galatians 1-6
“obsolete and ready to pass away" per Hebrews 8
"taken away" and "nailed to the cross" per Colossians
is a mere shadow of and testifies of Christ - Who has come - per more scripture than i care to look up and list, but trust you are not ignorant of
so what is our appropriate approach to it?
that's what remains.[/QUOTE]
A fast recap of what you said, that isn't in line other things you have said.
Keep in mind that you said,
Rainrider said:
The parts that apply to them yes. Now can you answer me this?
If Paul said the law was removed, and Yeshua said He didn't come to remove it, how do you recessional this?
why should i answer for something i never said? That's post #289
you followed this with, Rainrider said:
The parts
The Law is one law; not parts with various jots and tittles deleted. see James 2:10 post #296
Then in post #3111 you say. Hebrews 8:13
In that He says, "a new" He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
from this it is clear that the Law wasn't completely passed away yet by the time of the writing of Hebrews, which is before 70AD, around 50-60.
From this one can see that you do teach the Law has been removed. As well as only removing a part, Your the one that the law isn't parts. So what which is it?
The came post #314 where you say the law has been removed.
Rainrider said:
And still isn't, according to Mat. 5:17-18
and is not our husband or master, but only remains to curse those who reject the Messiah, according to Romans 1-8 & Galatians 1-6
“obsolete and ready to pass away" per Hebrews 8
"taken away" and "nailed to the cross" per Colossians
is a mere shadow of and testifies of Christ - Who has come - per more scripture than i care to look up and list, but trust you are not ignorant of
so what is our appropriate approach to it?
that's what remains.
As you have said it hasn't been in post #289 you make the claim you never said that. So now let me ask you this. How can one take what you say as truth, when you say one thing them turn around and say the opposite?
Now that this is done, I hope you can see why it is that I may not see what you are saying. After all, when you look at this in full, you do seem to want to stand on both sides of this topic.
A quick recap of what you have said. I am doing this so you can see that what you say is not always in line with other things you say.
OTE="posthuman, post: 5172881, member: 170505"]and is not our husband or master, but only remains to curse those who reject the Messiah, according to Romans 1-8 & Galatians 1-6
“obsolete and ready to pass away" per Hebrews 8
"taken away" and "nailed to the cross" per Colossians
is a mere shadow of and testifies of Christ - Who has come - per more scripture than i care to look up and list, but trust you are not ignorant of
so what is our appropriate approach to it?
that's what remains.[/QUOTE]
A fast recap of what you said, that isn't in line other things you have said.
Keep in mind that you said,
Rainrider said:
The parts that apply to them yes. Now can you answer me this?
If Paul said the law was removed, and Yeshua said He didn't come to remove it, how do you recessional this?
why should i answer for something i never said? That's post #289
you followed this with, Rainrider said:
The parts
The Law is one law; not parts with various jots and tittles deleted. see James 2:10 post #296
Then in post #3111 you say. Hebrews 8:13
In that He says, "a new" He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
from this it is clear that the Law wasn't completely passed away yet by the time of the writing of Hebrews, which is before 70AD, around 50-60.
From this one can see that you do teach the Law has been removed. As well as only removing a part, Your the one that the law isn't parts. So what which is it?
The came post #314 where you say the law has been removed.
Rainrider said:
And still isn't, according to Mat. 5:17-18
and is not our husband or master, but only remains to curse those who reject the Messiah, according to Romans 1-8 & Galatians 1-6
“obsolete and ready to pass away" per Hebrews 8
"taken away" and "nailed to the cross" per Colossians
is a mere shadow of and testifies of Christ - Who has come - per more scripture than i care to look up and list, but trust you are not ignorant of
so what is our appropriate approach to it?
that's what remains.
As you have said it hasn't been in post #289 you make the claim you never said that. So now let me ask you this. How can one take what you say as truth, when you say one thing them turn around and say the opposite?
Now that this is done, I hope you can see why it is that I may not see what you are saying. After all, when you look at this in full, you do seem to want to stand on both sides of this topic.
It holds to the heart of this debate. If a Gentile can't go into Temple, how can they place their hands on the head of the sacrifice? They can't. As it is clear you hold little to almost no understanding of the Temple Services, it may be best if you drop that line of questioning. Unless you wish to study that in depth. It is a study worth undertaking.
Ok I seen when looking back I didn't really give an answer to this, Please except my apologies.
If we look at the full story and not just a part of it we find some things that may be being fulfilled in our time.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Keep in mind that there is more to this than just this one verse.
Luk 21:25¶And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Global worming ring a bell?
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
We are now seeing the time of the gentile coming to a close. At lest in my mind, and we know that as humans we can all be wrong.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
As we can see this chapter is about the end times. A time just before his return. Is that a bit more clear? I do hope so, as I will be hard pressed to think of a different way to say this.
Again I am sorry for the slow reply to this.
If we look at the full story and not just a part of it we find some things that may be being fulfilled in our time.
Luk 21:22 For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled. Keep in mind that there is more to this than just this one verse.
Luk 21:25¶And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars; and upon the earth distress of nations, with perplexity; the sea and the waves roaring;
Global worming ring a bell?
Luk 21:24 And they shall fall by the edge of the sword, and shall be led away captive into all nations: and Jerusalem shall be trodden down of the Gentiles, until the times of the Gentiles be fulfilled.
We are now seeing the time of the gentile coming to a close. At lest in my mind, and we know that as humans we can all be wrong.
Luk 21:27 And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory.
As we can see this chapter is about the end times. A time just before his return. Is that a bit more clear? I do hope so, as I will be hard pressed to think of a different way to say this.
Again I am sorry for the slow reply to this.
do you disagree with this scripture, or believe its interpretation is the opposite of its plain reading?
Galatians 3:23-25
But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. Therefore the law was our tutor [to bring us] to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Hebrews 10:19-22
Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, and having a High Priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water.
If this is not a change of the old law, it is a new law which supplants the old - as the scripture also testifies in another place, 'to those under the Law, I became as under the Law, and to those without the Law, I became as without the Law, though not being lawless but under the Law of Christ'
the Apostle cannot say this if he, by flesh a Jew, has not been wholly removed from the Law and placed into freedom in Christ.
take the whole counsel, friend @Rainrider, not only your favorite verse in Matthew.
Hebrews, Chapter 8:
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
6But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
7For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
8For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
9Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
10For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
11And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
12For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
13In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.
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The true earthly temple has been revealed brother it isn’t man made
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
“And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
2 Corinthians 6:16
The temple was only a place for Gods spirit to meet with one chosen man each year he would fill the most holy place with his presence and meet with one person
that was just an earthly carnal man made pattern given to Moses , of the truth for believers receiving his holy spirit in our hearts
“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
1 Corinthians 3:17 KJV
“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price:
therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 KJV
Like the temple was built for his honor and glory we are made for his honor and glory to be a habitation for his holy spirit a place where Jesus truly can be with us by his spirit
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6 KJV
there’s no need for a temple when God is living within each believer and meeting with them continually there by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his name the temple was only a pattern for what’s been done in the body of Christ
“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
1 Corinthians 3:16 KJV
“And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.”
2 Corinthians 6:16
The temple was only a place for Gods spirit to meet with one chosen man each year he would fill the most holy place with his presence and meet with one person
that was just an earthly carnal man made pattern given to Moses , of the truth for believers receiving his holy spirit in our hearts
“If any man defile the temple of God, him shall God destroy; for the temple of God is holy, which temple ye are.”
1 Corinthians 3:17 KJV
“What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price:
therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.”
1 Corinthians 6:19-20 KJV
Like the temple was built for his honor and glory we are made for his honor and glory to be a habitation for his holy spirit a place where Jesus truly can be with us by his spirit
“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
Galatians 4:6 KJV
there’s no need for a temple when God is living within each believer and meeting with them continually there by the sacrifice of Jesus Christ and his name the temple was only a pattern for what’s been done in the body of Christ
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First let me ask this. Are you speaking of Torah?
If so then He lived that out in perfection. However you must keep in mind that in Mat. 5:17-18 Yeshua included to Prophets. Meaning that until all, (both the Law and the prophecies are fulfilled. As this is indicated by the Words in 18 that say, "Until all be fulfilled." We can't change the meaning of the passages in question to fit ones wishes.
Yes Yeshua has been in Jerusalem. Is he there now, I don't think so.
Yes the prophecy of Yeshua's sacrifice have been fulfilled. However, His second coming has not. So by the Words we find in Mat. 5:18 nothing in the Law has changed.
Keep watching, I am going to give a crash cores on sacrifice, and law in a day or 2. I am sure it will help some on here understand the Torah, and Laws a bit better.
If so then He lived that out in perfection. However you must keep in mind that in Mat. 5:17-18 Yeshua included to Prophets. Meaning that until all, (both the Law and the prophecies are fulfilled. As this is indicated by the Words in 18 that say, "Until all be fulfilled." We can't change the meaning of the passages in question to fit ones wishes.
Yes Yeshua has been in Jerusalem. Is he there now, I don't think so.
Yes the prophecy of Yeshua's sacrifice have been fulfilled. However, His second coming has not. So by the Words we find in Mat. 5:18 nothing in the Law has changed.
Keep watching, I am going to give a crash cores on sacrifice, and law in a day or 2. I am sure it will help some on here understand the Torah, and Laws a bit better.
